Frogboy Frogboy

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

95,771 views 522 replies
Reply #476 Top
- For the most part I'm only interested in Icons and WindowBlinds and don't want to pay $3.50 (or even 50% of that) for a suite of which I'm not going to use half of.[/quote

It puzzles the hell out of me how someone will make such a big deal out of paying a piddly amount for a suite which takes hours of time to create.

You pay more for that EVERY DAY if you stop at McDOnalds and get a value meal... and the suite isn't 1/2 as disposable.

We have a prejudice that everything on the internet should be free.]

Reply #477 Top
- For the most part I'm only interested in Icons and WindowBlinds and don't want to pay $3.50 (or even 50% of that) for a suite of which I'm not going to use half of.

It puzzles the hell out of me how someone will make such a big deal out of paying a piddly amount for a suite which takes hours of time to create.

You pay more for that EVERY DAY if you stop at McDOnalds and get a value meal... and the suite isn't 1/2 as disposable.

We have a prejudice that everything on the internet should be free.

Reply #478 Top
you purchase static IP addresses in blocks, and they are assigned under the DNS server when hosted, that only shows the sites are all under the same hosting service and in fact run under different servers, or server processes...

it does not mean they are all eating from the same bandwidth trough
Reply #479 Top
IPlural: Frogboy mentioned on JoeUser the other day that it was slower because it was hosted on WC's servers and they were having problems. I wouldn't have jumped to that harsh a conclusion, I promise.

**

I remember Frogboy making a huge deal out of Lighttek using Deviantart and others to host their skins, saying they were leeching.

It ended up, if I am not mistaken, that they had permission to do so, but lots of things were said about them nonetheless. He was outraged that a software developer was using the transfer expenses of a skin site to avoid having a skin database of their own.

Hasn't that happened here? Granted, Stardock pays for it, and justly so, but why the guilt trip? This is basically just Stardock's skin DB under a different name with a few added sections.



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Reply #480 Top
There is nothing at all wrong w/ paying for someones skins Gabriel if they are that talented that it would prompt someone to grab their wallet to buy them that is good! I think if you have that kind of talent in skinning nothing wrong w/ making some money out of it, but do that on your own site so "you" the one working on them icons make 100% of the money for "your" hard work...

Stardock does not need to take that from them, I'd rather see the subscription thing before ppl having to skin for their apps "and" then only get a portion of their earnings on skinning for them too? course that is up to them but I just think one thing needs to be kept in mind, that this site already is profiting from the skins "whether or not" the Author's of the skins begin to charge only to obtain a portion if they host pay for skins here at WC.
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Reply #481 Top
but = buy
too lazy to edit again... hehe
Reply #482 Top
Just visited XPThemes > . This is on their homepage as a news item....

"Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - Server crash

We are having some hard drive difficulties at present. We expect to have the libraries restored shortly. We apologize for any inconvenience."

Who is the "we" that they are talking about? If the we be us, then why is we footing the bill through a subscription drive so that XPThemes can function? Something's afoul here that I don't understand. Especially after all the Rah! Rah! talk about the few supporting the many. I didn't know that it also included another website. How many artists/authors who upload to WC know that their stuff is also available at XPThemes?
I'm with BakerStreet. A reasonable explanation of things is needed.
Reply #483 Top
yes.. it do seem in order without a doubt...

/me bends head back further and up and squeezes triggers feeling the 45 kick in his hand *no pain- yet* wonders if all toes are still accounted for?
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Reply #484 Top
IN that light, WC should only have to raise enough money to support the NON-Stardock oriented content, right? What percentage of the expenses will Stardock still have if WC goes down tomorrow?


baker has a point. we should not have to support StarDock stuff on WC. Just everything else. IMHO.

If I find out that after I spend 20 bucks for a sub that some of that money goes to Joe User or XPThemes I Will Be PISSED> And expect a refund.

Iplural: get a glock. Way better than H&K.
Reply #485 Top
I will add that WC may be on the Joe User servers because of the current problems, instead of Joe User being on WC's. I don't think JoeUser is really an issue anyway, since they don't share the skin DB, and that is doubtlessly the transfer hog. If they said that all the money would go to help JoeUser as well, it wouldn't change my feelings toward the drive.

It makes the point, though, that as these are Stardock's servers and database, the traffic isn't WC's exclusively. XPThemes is a big hole in the model, imo, and one much more prone to the 'freeloader' definition. To me unless it and the non-registered downloaders here are patched, you can't call anyone a 'freeloader'.

If you offer something to someone freely, you can't very well blame them for taking it.


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Reply #486 Top
Damn, have to agree with kona again. Glock is by far better.



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Reply #487 Top
Whoooooooa........Hold on here........Where's all this going to.......seems like its suddenly gone into a Stardock subversion thread. I think some people need to start to think carefully about what you are posting on this thread and get some answers in your head first before putting them in print.

If you want something to think about.........Why does XPThemes web site exist? Look at the name and go away and think about it and come back to this thread when you have worked it out. Its not that difficult really.
The same goes for some of the other answers you are seeking.
Reply #488 Top
It was started for newbies as it is an easier site to navigate than WC as stated by Brad.



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Reply #489 Top
I would also add that i am sure that Brad and the "seniors" will look at all the aspects of the "Stardock/Wincustomize empire" when they change things and i am confident they will get it right. Simplicity is still the key, though
Reply #490 Top
WOOAH, no, leo.

This thread has gone from repairing the hardware to theorizing that WC should be more financially responsible for its 'excesses'. That, though, wouldn't be fair to subscribers if their support was bled by other sources than WC, like XPThemes.

When someone says "If Stardock has to pay over 1/3 of the bill every year, it is not community funded", people weigh that against the fact that Stardock has completely moved their skin hosting expenses *here*, and then even tied XPThemes to it. In that light of that, do you think the 'community' specific, non-Stardock aspects of WC are even 1/3 responsible for the total expenses?

I think we should go back to the idea that we are getting the hardware and reducing the waste here. IF we are really gonna talk about generating substantial amounts of new revenue for WC, we need to ensure that the revenue is spent, solely, on WC. XPThemes is a good example of how these resources can be given away to people oblivious to WC's existance, and with no benefit to WC subscribers..

I'm cool with how things are. If we use this hardware situation to enact a lot of change, though, people should be curious as to how the resources could be better used.


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Reply #491 Top
Well, the only thing I'am sure of is death and taxes.



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Reply #492 Top
It was started for newbies as it is an easier site to navigate than WC as stated by Brad


WOM..........do you really think that was the only reason?
Reply #493 Top
He said that would leave this site for the more experienced. Maybe some other minor thing.


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And it would keep them off the message board.
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Reply #494 Top
Went away...came back...no answers in my head ...just questions
Reply #495 Top
I'm not saying that the drive is bad, or a periodic or continual drive would be bad. I'm not saying that WC shouldn't make money, and I am not saying that it is bad that Stardock is in charge and benefits as much as they can from it.

I *am* saying, however, that the idea that the community should be responsible for 2/3 of the stated operating costs is a bit, well, dishonest, and it really made me think twice about the whole thing.
Reply #496 Top
BakerStreet......and people WILL know where there money is going, i am confident of that and they WILL be happy.........Not being rude but have you considered why the XPtheme web site exists yet? I get the impression that you are quite a deep thinker like me. My bet is that the XPthemes site will continue even after all the changes that are envisaged - maybe it might operate slightly differently but it will still be there.

Right must say night, night now. Take care everyone. Good Night and God Bless
Reply #497 Top
Do you think XPThemes could be that popular? Anytime Stardock links to their skin site, they link to WC. All their software links to WC, JoeUser links to WC, etc. So what is the actual purpose of this site? I mean, yea it's a bit easier to navigate, but you have to be a complete PC newbie not to figure out how to use WC. I'm having a hard time trying to find a good reason for this site to exist, but that could just be me.
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Reply #498 Top
Nice to be a relarive newbi and so confident and trusting.



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Reply #499 Top
I*am* saying, however, that the idea that the community should be responsible for 2/3 of the stated operating costs is a bit, well, dishonest, and it really made me think twice about the whole thing.


Leo bangs his head against a brick wall.......BakerStreet you are a lovely chap but i think you need a can of my Fosters beer....here you go, enjoy it and give your mind a rest

Night night
Reply #500 Top
Nice to be a relarive newbi and so confident and trusting.



Thanks, WOM. I got just what i deserved from you for being a smart arse. Sorry if i offended you or anyone else, i did not mean to. From hereon i will leave it to people like you who have been here far longer and who have obviously far more perception and vision than myself to deal.
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