Well, you're also dealing with FAR more individuals of races in ME when compared to Star Control. In ME, you might  be seeing thousands of members of the same race, whereas in Star Control, you run into AT MOST 3 representatives. It's really not fair to call them caricatures in that regard.

I used to like the SSI Buck Roger's RPGs... but they are very, very old.

Pretty sure he means something made in the last 20 years (hint, that game is actually younger than I am, but still older than 20)

Yes... But it was actually really great, haha!

Quoting Volusianus, reply 76

Quoting maanvis26,

reply 70

Quoting Rhonin_the_wizard,

reply 67

I don't see the comedy or slapstick in the scene most of you are talking about. Maybe the dust cloud could be smaller. For all we know that Tyworm is dead.

Quoting maanvis26,

reply 65

Speaking of, I'm a huge fan of RPG games but there are rarely and space RPG games where you play (and fly) as a ship captain, know any goodones?

Well, besides Star Control 2, the Mass Effect series, specifically the first game. I saw some other games on Steam, sadly I didn't mark them or remember their namers. If I find them again I will update this post.

Edit:

I remembered one. Darkstar One, it is a rather old game and you only have one ship which you can upgrade in different ways with some artifacts you find.

I played all 3 mass effect games and mass effect 2 is one of my favorite games ever . But still it doesn't really have you do combat with the ship.

By the way, what I absolutely LOVE about Mass Effect is that the aliens are people, not just caricatures of their race like in SC2. Come to think of it I think it's not really of this time anymore to have aliens be caricatures of their race. There needs to be nuance I think, because in the real world we wouldn't like it if we make games where all jewish people are evilly into money, all americans are fat patriotic bastards, all black people just care for chicken and rap music etc. I know there are money concerns but this could be a bit of an issue for me if it isn't handled carefully

 

Well, you're also dealing with FAR more individuals of races in ME when compared to Star Control. In ME, you might  be seeing thousands of members of the same race, whereas in Star Control, you run into AT MOST 3 representatives. It's really not fair to call them caricatures in that regard.

Did you switch SC and ME in the second to last sentence?

In fact, now that I think about it more... My three most memorable, and "best RPGs" I ever player were...

1) Baldur's Gate

2) Buck Rogers & Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday

3) Ultima: Underworld (First 3D RPG, it practically a miracle of it's time... talk about immersion in the early 90's...)

A lot of people don't know this, but the family that owned Buck Rogers (the descendants of the creator of Buck Rogers) were the founders of TSR, the people who created Dungeons & Dragons.  Their Buck Rogers paper RPG was their pride and joy, even more so than D&D, and many of the original D&D authors and designers also made the Buck Rogers RPG.  The computer games were totally faithful to the RPG, and it was one of the best of the original RPG games.

It is very old, but it really is one of the best RPGs ever made in my book.  The story is AMAZING!!!

I don't Like the intro!

The story doesn't flow properly needs to be edited differently.

Seriously a ship crashes on a planet Titan..Where's this sensor that picks it up? Is it the space station?Is it another ship in space?Is the space station located just off Titan? Then you get a 2 weeks later message.Kind of pointless don't you think naming a ship in the middle of a rescue effort.Wouldn't the crash victim be dead 2 weeks later?

How About showing the Space Station in Orbit around Titan and this beautiful ship being celebrated for it's maiden voyage + official naming of Vessel.

The scene cuts to a Star Wars Star Destroyer type chase scene,rear view,front view looking back..wormhole/jump scene and entering Titan space with a few frames like a meteor entering our Atmosphere..A streak..Space Station sensors pick it up..back to view of frantic pilot in ship about to crash..Confirmation a ship has crashed on Titan...Now an urgent need to depart and investigate..with a chance to save the pilot if we get there as soon as possible.

That's my thoughts on the clip I saw.

The description of modding capabilities in November update do not suggest that it is possible to develop alternate game modes (e.g. for super melee). Can that be confirmed/denied?

I have never been a huge fan of fantasy. It's ok, but their is rarely a consistency to them. Anything can happen because it's magic.

My top 3 RPG's would be:

Shadowrun (I know it's fantasy, but I don't have to be consistent.)

Planet's Edge

STO (It gets repetitive, but playing the episodes are a lot of fun. Several seasons have been done. Plus I am a lifetime member)

Honorable Mentions

Star control 2 was awesome but it was super-lite RPG. Character growth was non-existent.

Starflight (Very similar to SC2 in being RPG lite.)

The thing everyone misses though, is that the "character" in Star Control was always your SHIP, not the captain of. And your "companions" from a traditional RPG, were actually your "companion ships" and figurative quest log filled with an excellent number of quests. And when you think about it like that, SCII wasn't RPG Lite - it was filled with advances, leveling, gear, loot and complex, game-changing interrelationships between species companions and extremely weighty decisions that changed the course of your whole game. It ticks all the boxes of a modern RPG. All of them!

I don't know what game you played, but that's not SC2. If it is, it's all in your head.

What?! How so? You're trippin'.

In a typical RPG, a dwarf (usually all men) will, over a glass of ale, tell you that his people had a beautiful underground city, but dug too Deep and uncovered a horrible evil that overflowed from the tunnel and overwhelmed his clan. If you decide to take up that mantle of responsibility, and help him close the tunnel and vanquish the evil that slaughtered his brethren, he becomes your companion and accompanies you on your journey, using his axe and earth-abilities to fight your enemies.

In SCII, the Syreen (mostly all women) will, over a romantic glass of wine, tell you that her people had a beautiful world, and that the Mycon sent a Deep One through her planet's crust, rupturing the crust and overwhelming her people. If you decide to take up that mantle of responsibility, and help her get revenge and vanquish the evil that slaughtered her brethren, her ship becomes your "companion" and accompanies you on your journey, using her Particle Beam Stilleto and Syreen Song to fight your enemies.

In both cases, if you don't go to that tavern, or visit Betelgeuse, the entire game is played out differently. It's weighty, optional, complex, wrought with backstory, a revenge tale that changes how you play and how powerful you become. If you play it the wrong way, or say the wrong thing, or don't do as he/she asks, and complete the quest, you get none of the help they offer. 

That's about as Role-Playing as you can get.

**EDIT**: What, the only gauge of character growth is receiving +1 Endurance and +2 strength? Those are approximated in SCII as well. +1 Endurance is adding a crew pod. +1 Wisdom is a battery module, making your "mana" recharge quicker. +2 Strength is the equivalent of an ion blaster. Just calling them that doesn't make a traditional RPG MORE RPG-like and SCII LESS RPG-like.

That may be true, but having a series of yes or no decisions gets boring very quickly. That's part of what I despise so much about Skyrim. Most of its dialogue choices are "Yes." Sometimes you don't even get to say no. That's not a roleplaying game. The most RPG RPG to RPG was imho New Vegas, simply because the simple decisions you made early in the game created exponentially more and more choices the further into the game you went. Traits mattered, stats you had mattered (and that translated into more and more dialogue choices), because ultimately in order to play a role, you have to be able to converse. Simply having combat doesn't make an RPG a roleplaying game. If you just have combat with stats, you just ...have combat with stats. There's no simpler way to express that. However, if it leads to overcomplication of development, I don't think SC:O NEEDS to be classified as an RPG. Because ultimately, SC2's RPG elements were thinly veiled time gates (which I thoroughly enjoyed, mind you), but you basically had 3 captains to play: Goody Two Shoes, Asshole, and Captain Sarcasm.

Lay off the drugs, Cuore . Don't make SC2 something that it isn't .

Thoughtful reply, and I agree about FO:NV being a true, true, unique roleplaying game. Unique being the key word. One that practically doesn't exist. Ever. And certainly not in the modern scope of things where you get a yes or no decision in almost every circumstance. And the caveat was that SCII ticks all the boxes of a MODERN RPG. Surely not as in depth as, say, Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. But those are ancient relics, and even their modern predecessors like Pillars of Eternity or Fallout IV, pale in their comparison. I mean, PoE practically hands you all your companions in about 20 minutes, free of charge. It's lame.

Compared to that? SCII is DEEP. As deep as the deepest RPG out there? No. But pretty deep, nonetheless.

Quoting maanvis26, reply 90

Lay off the drugs, Cuore . Don't make SC2 something that it isn't .

Way to call me out, without offering any backup for your argument, whatsoever, or explain in any way!

Do not confuse RPG with upgrades. Everything from Battlefield to Command & Conquer has upgrades. Upgrades are a linear path you always follow on machinery. 

RPG is is about branches and choices. You are always the captain of a precursor ship that you develop to take on the Sa-Matra. A true RPG, you could be an engineer, a tactical officer, science officer, etc... Each would bring it's own set up branches in dealing with each situation. Your conversations and actions would vary on the knowledge you had to deal with them.

Star Control is an RPG lite because it does have a few elements (very few). But most of those choices, there is not an alternative. So it is an adventure game with a few RPG elements. Closer to Nathan Drake or Lara Croft type game.

Also, you had almost 0 options when role playing your character. If I wanted to be the biggest jerk, that wasn't an option. If I wanted to show the Ur-quan what true extermination looked like, also not an option. There would be 1 or 2 dialogue choices and it never mattered what you said because it always moved the story in the same way. Now maybe you really felt like you were role-playing, but you were just acting out a script.

The only thing that really could play out differently, beside the Syreen example, was if you saved the Thraddash, Zok-For-Pik, and Ilwrath. That's about it for variability. Show me one example hoe the story could have ended differently. There is a reason that may Western RPG's have multiple endings because decisions do matter.

SC2 doesn't have the branching paths that RPG games have, and when you have the Chmmr upgrades everyone's flagship will look the same instead of a character specced for damage, defense, magic or healing .

That's why SC2 is not able to compare with that.

Mass effect 3 and 2 do a way better job at that, with different classes and really different choices. But almost every sc2 playthrough is the same with some subtle differences. ANd if you don't do as the game wants you get unlimited aliens thrown at you.

Quoting maanvis26, reply 93

SC2 doesn't have the branching paths that RPG games have, and when you have the Chmmr upgrades everyone's flagship will look the same instead of a character specced for damage, defense, magic or healing .

That's why SC2 is not able to compare with that.

Mass effect 3 and 2 do a way better job at that, with different classes and really different choices. But almost every sc2 playthrough is the same with some subtle differences.

While this is true, I never felt that Mass Effect was nearly as comprehensive as Star Control, simply because your impact on the galaxy felt minimal at best. Mass Effect certainly had more robust customization, but even so, I never really felt like a badass.

And honestly, the comment about being specced for damage, defense, magic, or healing isn't really relevant when that's not actually a roleplaying element. Specs and classes and levels were just a convenient way for players to play Dungeons and Dragons, and after that became the powerhouse that it is, these "Pop-Rpg" elements became prevalent.

However, I almost feel like many of these systems are outdated now. Obviously players will still want that familiar expression of progression, and that's okay, that's fine. We get lots of cool stuff when players are happy, but the genre is stagnating due to clinging to these elements as if they were the skeleton of the entire game.

Here's how understand RPG in a nutshell:

1. You have a character with bunch of stats that determine it.

2. You're able to manipulate those stats in the game (to shape your character).

3. When you do talking choices, the game code does your stat check to determine the outcome (karma, guild, alignment mechanics etc).

4. That outcome affects the story progression, consecutive NPC dialog etc.

SC2 has only (4) in regard to the side-stories.

ME is not an RPG. It's a TPS/interactive adventure movie.

Well, I suppose I ought to get at this from a different angle - instead of me telling you why I think it IS a depth-filled, meaningful-choiced RPG with WEIGHT... why don't you tell me why it's NOT? What's it missing? 

Khronobomb's comment is irrelevant because, as I said, your CHARACTER is not the captain him or herself, so it doesn't matter if you're the captain or the tech officer. Your character is the SHIP. You have to think about it like that. And you CAN play that in many different ways, especially when you choose which weapons/talents to take with you (companion ships)

Aside from typical numbered stats (which I don't think define RPG's as RPG's), and wanting to be locked in a play style (like archer, warrior, etc - which I don't think is very RPG-ish anyway), and the final battle where you pretty much need to outfit your ship with a bomb to win...

What's MISSING from SCII to make it more RPG?

Who cares about the physical name "stats"? You can affect many stats in SCII, just in a non-traditional way.

You want more HP? Build a crew pod, just like I said.

What does the willpower stat dictate usually? Mana regen. Shiva Furnace. How is adding 2 Shiva Furnaces different than adding 2 to your willpower stat?

What about your aim stat? % chance to hit? Come on, Hunam, think bigger. Auto-tracking system. 1, 2, or 3 of those are huge upgrades to your THAC0.

And your defense? Sacrifice some HP, by putting a point into defense instead - Point-Defense System. It's the same thing.

I'm NOT talking about traditional RPG loot. I'm not confusing RPG with upgrades. I'm translating the game mechanics in a more meaningful way.

You want a different playstyle?

Well, a warrior would charge in light a Dreadnought. But a ranger might play like a Spathi Eluder - constantly evading and staying out of range. A thief would need to cloak and get up close to backstab his enemy - like the Ilwrath. These are all valid comparisons to a playstyle. Who cares if you're not locked into being a friggin druid because you chose that option on the character screen. It's not like SCII has the typical druid power of thorns to attach to and slow down your enemies... oh wait... that's the VUX.

As for your "talking choices" point - why is it more organic to use a stat check to determine an outcome, rather than saying what would be the RIGHT thing in a conversation? There's a million moments in SCII where your dialogue affects the outcome of the game WAY more than having put 17 points into speech, so you can convince the shopkeeper to give you 5% off his price. SCII does it in a way where you have to actually choose the dialogue options that would help, rather than seeing a dialogue option onscreen, having your charisma be 2 points too low and not be able to say the words that are right there in front of you. It's a little silly, buddy.

And you'd be hard-pressed to find a game that has more weighty decisions than Star Control II. Entire races live and die based on how cleverly and successfully you helped them.

As I said, it's all in your head.

Quoting Hunam_, reply 98

As I said, it's all in your head.

You're discounting my points, in favor of abruptly sticking by your guns. I thought we were better friends than that.

Quoting Volusianus, reply 94

Quoting maanvis26,

reply 93

SC2 doesn't have the branching paths that RPG games have, and when you have the Chmmr upgrades everyone's flagship will look the same instead of a character specced for damage, defense, magic or healing .

That's why SC2 is not able to compare with that.

Mass effect 3 and 2 do a way better job at that, with different classes and really different choices. But almost every sc2 playthrough is the same with some subtle differences.

 

While this is true, I never felt that Mass Effect was nearly as comprehensive as Star Control, simply because your impact on the galaxy felt minimal at best. Mass Effect certainly had more robust customization, but even so, I never really felt like a badass.

And honestly, the comment about being specced for damage, defense, magic, or healing isn't really relevant when that's not actually a roleplaying element. Specs and classes and levels were just a convenient way for players to play Dungeons and Dragons, and after that became the powerhouse that it is, these "Pop-Rpg" elements became prevalent.

However, I almost feel like many of these systems are outdated now. Obviously players will still want that familiar expression of progression, and that's okay, that's fine. We get lots of cool stuff when players are happy, but the genre is stagnating due to clinging to these elements as if they were the skeleton of the entire game.

With mass effect 3 you could have entire races die or live at your whim.. And surely there were perfect endings with the geth and quarians living happily ever after, and everyone surviving the suicide mission, but internet has kinda ruined us with that so we always have guides at hand to gain the knowledge for a perfect ending. If SC2 was built like ME3 in that aspect many different players would have had different experiences.

But I have to really say; Mass Effect was for me for a long time a spiritual successor to SC2. It described perfectly what a game in the SC universe could be like, although I would've liked more focus on exploring the galaxy instead of exploring story arcs .