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Why are VL still allowed in Multiplayer games ?

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Why are VL still allowed in Multiplayer games ?

from Sins Forums

This is not a balance discussion, everyone worth a damn playing know the vl titan is grossly overpowered.

 

So my question is why are we still allowing them in multiplayer games ?

88,686 views 82 replies
Reply #51 from Sins Forums Top

I want OP scout rushes back

nothing quite like 800 Arcova Scout frigates

 

 

Martyrdom was like Wail at one point...

just rush in there and pop all your scouts and their fleet goes POOF

 

siiiiiiiiiigh

Reply #52 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting PlayerJuan, reply 50
Wail is an auto win button.  There's no strategy involved.  It's push button, and out macroing, microing, scouting, countering fleets, etc. is all for naught.  It's stronger than all the super weapons and far cheaper.  If anything actually played as an e-sport for money had that it would immediately no longer be an e-sport based on that 1 ability alone.  The whole damn game Would be shunned.

 

Fortunately sins is more casual than that and a player base willing to self regulate.  I will say though broken abilities are more fun on a non competitive basis and since that is the majority of sins players/games I would actually say leave as is, however.  If they do want to make an ultra balanced competitive version I would say make it a toggle in game options.

 

 

It hardly an Auto win button... far from it. Ever since it does affect allied units there is a lot of strategy involved. Populatin grows very slowly and as such it cannot be spammed and you cant afford wasting it.

 

Wail does punish you hard for being arrogant and not careful in game. There are plenty of ways to deal with it both early and late game.

 

Compared to the OP toys Vasari get it is nothing.

 

  • Vorastra
  • Phase Missiles (watch a level 10 Advent Titan die with over 10K shield points remaining in something like 30 seconds)
  • Orkulus in general and Orky rush.
  • Some of the most nastiest abilitys in the game
  • Kostura

 

it is a minor problem at worst and not a problem at all at best.

 

 

Contrary to popular belief in the e-sport crowd, e-sports is rarely a big selling point for games. Not to mention that many e-sport people have the manners of 3 year olds and as such are not necessarly the people you want to populate MP.

 

 

 

On a last general balancing note, the Advent Rebels have nothing but Wail and the - considerable toned down - Eradica going for them. So if you absolutly have to balance Wail (How?) you better think of something very good as compensation.

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #53 from Sins Forums Top

just to prove a point...

finished a game now that i had to sacrifice 1 part of my carriers to kill a vorastra...

it was lvl 7 before it mawed them, i even let 1 of my eggs to die just so that i could trow that last -armor spell...

after it mawed them (took out about 400 supply worth of carriers) i jumped in another 30-40 carriers and finished the vorastra...

vorastra alone can do dmg but can't do everything alone...fearing it, running away from it and not thinking of how to counter it is only a sign of weaknes...i don't give a damn that i fed it to lvl 8 because rebuilding it would take a long time and even more resources and by the time it's finished it would be too late...

in my opinion, you only have to know how to trap it or how to recognize when it's trapped...

 

Reply #54 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting ZliMojsije, reply 53
vorastra alone can do dmg but can't do everything alone

So basically, you were able to beat it because it was alone....and, how many skilled players use only a titan and nothing else?

Reply #55 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 55


So basically, you were able to beat it because it was alone....and, how many skilled players use only a titan and nothing else?

 

Yes, this is the problem, even against a single ship you need a whole fleet to beat it, and still brutal losses. Not to mention what happens when there is a fleet next to it, and it is likely to happen if the vasari player feels his titan is threatened by the smallest chance, and good luck killing a same size (as your fleet) Vasari armada lead by a Vorastra, that is just simply impossible to outmicro with carriers, frontal engagement is stupid strategy (desperation and huge damage of Vorastra, and not to mention Maw), what else is left to do? Good luck killing it's antimatter as it rarely uses it, and the bombers kill everything in seconds, before making any real difference whether you had Dunovs or not (Radiance is even worse because of it's smaller Hullpoints).

Reply #56 from Sins Forums Top

 

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 55

Quoting ZliMojsije, reply 53vorastra alone can do dmg but can't do everything alone

So basically, you were able to beat it because it was alone....and, how many skilled players use only a titan and nothing else?

Maybe he killed the enemy fleet first and then dealt with Vorastra. Or do we want to pretend now, such situation could not happen, cause Vorastra is autowin button, even if you happened to have say 2 level 6 marzas and high level Ragnarov as part of your own fleet?

 

Reply #57 from Sins Forums Top

if there were a fleet next to it...i'd choose a different approach...and wouldn't sacrifice anything...

Reply #58 from Sins Forums Top

Vasari bombers should be able to drive off any marza, lvl 6 or not...carriers are the worse ship to try and MB, as they can kite and have the highest HP of all the common frigates...Ragnarov will take longer but micro phase jump should easily keep VL titan away from it if the VL player wanted to....

I suppose if you threw in a slew of mid level kols with flak burst, you might be able to argue bomber spam wouldn't work out so well....but if the Vasari had caps of their own well, yeah....still not a fair fight for TEC....

Reply #59 from Sins Forums Top

As a newcomer it's disturbing that large balanced discussions like this are even being had.  I would have expected that all sub-factions to be balanced enough to be viable in multiplayer.  Banning a sub-faction is the wrong decision.  Balancing properly is the solution.

Reply #60 from Sins Forums Top

If this is a blizzard game , balancing will be out long ago. But this is stardock we are talking about , chances of balancing the game is next to 0.

Reply #61 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JustAnotherName, reply 61
If this is a blizzard game , balancing will be out long ago. But this is stardock we are talking about , chances of balancing the game is next to 0.
,

 

It appears you have "forgotten" to install the numerous patches that have been released by Stardock.... :rolleyes:

 

As for Blizzard..... it took years for Starcrafts balancing to be perfect.

Reply #62 from Sins Forums Top

The Vorastra Maw ability can be largely countered by just splitting your carriers up into a bunch of little groups.  Yeah, it is a pain in the butt, but the Vorastra has no way to counter carriers all over the place..before long it will have to flee or die since it can't outrun bomber spam.   Also, the Vorastra is slow to turn and aim...even when I have jumped it right into perfect position to get some carriers, often it will refuse to lock on in time before they can move out of range.  Keep the carriers moving and away from the front of the ship!

 

Recap:

-  Your entire fleet of carriers sitting in one spot.  nom nom nom  --- screwed

-  Your entire fleet of carriers moving around the gravwell --- maybe you are screwed...maybe not.

-  Your carriers all over the gravwell and moving.  Lose some carriers, but Vorastra will flee or die.

Reply #63 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Cykur, reply 63
The Vorastra Maw ability can be largely countered by just splitting your carriers up into a bunch of little groups.  Yeah, it is a pain in the butt, but the Vorastra has no way to counter carriers all over the place..before long it will have to flee or die since it can't outrun bomber spam.   Also, the Vorastra is slow to turn and aim...even when I have jumped it right into perfect position to get some carriers, often it will refuse to lock on in time before they can move out of range.  Keep the carriers moving and away from the front of the ship!

 

Recap:

-  Your entire fleet of carriers sitting in one spot.  nom nom nom  --- screwed

-  Your entire fleet of carriers moving around the gravwell --- maybe you are screwed...maybe not.

-  Your carriers all over the gravwell and moving.  Lose some carriers, but Vorastra will flee or die.

 

Thanks, I was waiting to see how long it would take for somebody to say this, but it seems the community now adays would rather just prevent people from using game content instead of microing, because seriously, who micros in an RTS, amirite?

Reply #64 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 64


Thanks, I was waiting to see how long it would take for somebody to say this, but it seems the community now adays would rather just prevent people from using game content instead of microing, because seriously, who micros in an RTS, amirite?

 

One problem almost solved, but the Vasari player is still likely to have a strong supporting fleet around the Vorastra, so even if he has to retreat the Titan can use his fleet, and the opponent cannot have weaker ships than heavy cruisers as those are likely to be devastated by the desperation area attack (even heavy cruisers will be). And Vasari fighters are very good at taking out bombers. The Vorastra is another extremely powerful addition to a way too powerful race even without it, and this is the problem I think. If the Vorastra was in place of AL titan I think noone would complain as Advent Loyalist doesn't have that many great toys besides the current Coronata Titan, but this is not true for Vasari Loyalist and for the Vasari race itself as it is the strongest race in this game and in many aspects clearly unbalanced. Vorastra is just making this situation worse.

Reply #65 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Turchany, reply 65

Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 64

Thanks, I was waiting to see how long it would take for somebody to say this, but it seems the community now adays would rather just prevent people from using game content instead of microing, because seriously, who micros in an RTS, amirite?

 

One problem almost solved, but the Vasari player is still likely to have a strong supporting fleet around the Vorastra, so even if he has to retreat the Titan can use his fleet, and the opponent cannot have weaker ships than heavy cruisers as those are likely to be devastated by the desperation area attack (even heavy cruisers will be). And Vasari fighters are very good at taking out bombers. The Vorastra is another extremely powerful addition to a way too powerful race even without it, and this is the problem I think. If the Vorastra was in place of AL titan I think noone would complain as Advent Loyalist doesn't have that many great toys besides the current Coronata Titan, but this is not true for Vasari Loyalist and for the Vasari race itself as it is the strongest race in this game and in many aspects clearly unbalanced. Vorastra is just making this situation worse.

 

Reply #66 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 64
because seriously, who micros in an RTS

Wail whores...

Reply #67 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 66

Quoting Turchany, reply 65
Quoting Nightraid3r, reply 64

Thanks, I was waiting to see how long it would take for somebody to say this, but it seems the community now adays would rather just prevent people from using game content instead of microing, because seriously, who micros in an RTS, amirite?

 

One problem almost solved, but the Vasari player is still likely to have a strong supporting fleet around the Vorastra, so even if he has to retreat the Titan can use his fleet, and the opponent cannot have weaker ships than heavy cruisers as those are likely to be devastated by the desperation area attack (even heavy cruisers will be). And Vasari fighters are very good at taking out bombers. The Vorastra is another extremely powerful addition to a way too powerful race even without it, and this is the problem I think. If the Vorastra was in place of AL titan I think noone would complain as Advent Loyalist doesn't have that many great toys besides the current Coronata Titan, but this is not true for Vasari Loyalist and for the Vasari race itself as it is the strongest race in this game and in many aspects clearly unbalanced. Vorastra is just making this situation worse.

 

 

Reply #68 from Sins Forums Top

LOL people are so kind here now I understand why almost noone wants to play online :D

Reply #69 from Sins Forums Top

And this is why we need an Official Troll List, so everyone knows who's a troll and who is just an asshat.....

Reply #70 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 70
And this is why we need an Official Troll List, so everyone knows who's a troll and who is just an asshat.....

Why don't you make one then? Noone seems to build one list.

Reply #71 from Sins Forums Top

I'll rewrite all of my old reviews...

 

Reply #72 from Sins Forums Top

SELEUCEIA TIER

Also, I officially nominate "Seven Psychopaths" as an Official Guide to Being a Troll....

Reply #73 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Turchany, reply 71

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 70And this is why we need an Official Troll List, so everyone knows who's a troll and who is just an asshat.....

Why don't you make one then? Noone seems to build one list.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/430708

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/431126

'Nuff said.

-Lord Brony

Reply #75 from Sins Forums Top

I also think Unity Mass should do chaining damage....