I try. I try. VL Titan should not be banned. Pretty much all titans become fairly powerful at high levels. Does that mean they should all be banned?

Everything except colony frigates should be banned...

lol and keep the vasari fabricators they are cool! they build very quick! OP?

I think most would just like a bit more reasonable balance. I'd like all the titans toned down some.

....to the level of the Ankylon?

Not so much just like that necessarily.

One way would be to allow capital ship abilities to work on Titans no differently than abilities that work on capital ships. Vasari already does this for the most part. This would make titans a bit more vulnerable to disables potentially allowing frigate based support to actually work late game but still keep the titans at their current levels.

Another way would be to decrease the durability increases per level and durability titan upgrade per point. This would make titans a little less god like at higher levels.

Another way would be to remove passives from Titans and make them all AM based with appropriate cooldowns. Looking at the VL and VR titan mainly as they have passives that cause direct damage. 

Basically, I'd like to see more options for dealing with high level titans by making them more vulnerable either through counters or general durability or even a combination of. 

We can go into what game changes should be made and all, but i think theirs a different thread for that. Fact is as it stands VL are making the game boring. So untill a patch hits, if it ever does, we have to try and make the game fun and somewhat balanced on our own.

It's a forum rule... Once the thread hits page 2 we can talk about anything we want.

personally...if you allow everything...like jumping sb's and wail...you won't have a problem with VL titan...yes, titan is strong, but everything can be countered...and what did you expect would happen once you started banning wail and jumping sb's? the next logical choice for every vasari player is VL...

if host allows jumping sb's and wail game would be more balanced than without them...and VL titan wouldn't be such a problem because it can't go into fight alone...

Wail and jumping orkies only help 2 factions....they aren't going to do anything to help AL, TL, or TR....

So, half the factions are awesome and half the factions are terrible....sounds lovely...

Yes, and highlight the whole TEC race, as they don't really have anything special in general to compare to those awesome stuff.

I rarely see a Vorastra alone, the problem is it is surrounded by 200 corvettes or 10-20 Serevun Overseers, and maybe a bunch of capital ships compared to your whole fleet doesn't matter what you have this easy Vasari combo easily matches your best everything and this is the problem, try doing something similar with AL TL or TR that is so hardly countered like the Vorastra and it's supporting fleet..

I particularly hate wail as it is so easy to loose your whole fleet to it if it surprises you when first used against you, can be lethal to your whole game even if you were winning before, not only speaking about 5v5-s.

Jumping starbases are OP in general because there are many of them waiting deployment on the enemy fronts, so you take out one, another one arrives asap.. Try to mention something that is as powerful as this feature for the AL, TL, TR... (titans? every faction have titans and only Ankylon is in another group, all others are good titans, or the red button for TEC is so easy to avoid by bombers)

Oh and ZliMojsie, how do YOU counter Vorastra? It seems from your reply you have a way, sounds interesting to me as I most times fail against that Titan.

And which half is the terrible one? 

Just to be on the same page, I'm a VL player...if I see Vorastra or an SB jumps to my system I consider to have 2 choices depending on the sizes of my and my enemy's fleet that is covering Vorastra or the SB...

1st choice is to ignore both Vorastra/SB...stay in fight and try to kill everything else...try to save my carriers from Vorastra/SB, and after that focus on Vorastra/SB...

2nd choice is to withdraw from fight, sell everything on the planet and prepare the next system for better defense...

And btw, I'd rather play with wail and jumping sb's then without them...If I'm too stupid to remember that a specific player is playing AR and that he might wail me, then it was my mistake that I failed to see a trap and I'm obviously not good enough to beat that player...even though he only used 1 ability to make my fleet disappear, same could have happened to him if I get my Vorastra to lvl6 and carefully micro'd the titan and maw his carriers...As for other titans, TR can pose a great threat to Vorastra...and TL can be a pain in the ass when you try to kill it...

Complaints against everyone, everywhere, and everything:

#1  ZliMojsie, how does falling back ever help? for that matter, when would the VL player hit the frontline planet anyway?  They would just go straight for your homeworld and by the time your own titan was ready to counter them they'll be gone.

#2 

Try?  there is no try young padawan.  You will not try because if you try you will fail, and thus there is no win.  There's no chance that you can save your carriers from a VL titan.  Maybe if you're really really lucky your enemy will leave his regular fleet with yours and jump to your carriers to take them out and sacrifice his fleet, but I wouldn't bet on it.

---------------More complaints upcoming, stay tuned!------------------

Exactly my point: People scream about skill being all important but the moment something is not counterable by a noob who played the game for 3 hours, they scream "IT IS OP"

Unless of course it belongs to Vasari... in which case "it is fine" or "in need of further buffing".

Who are you online?

Once I defeated a WAY BETTER player with wail, he was not even near my skill level... So this too stupid to remember is a bit funny to me.. in that game I didn't even think about using wail only after I felt I am getting defeated, I killed his whole fleet as I built labs and researched wail so quickly he couldn't even react to that, and boom his whole fleet with 100-200 ships was gone.

It seems to me only Vasari players are satisfied with Vorastra performance before and after level 6 (what a big surprise). The problem is, consider the following, 2 players of same skill level, it does not take a genius to realize the player having better toys will win, and not every faction have as good things as a Vorastra.. And if you only use the overall strength of the Vasari race itself even that is enough to be a significant advantage, not to speak about the not-even-near balanced Vasari stuffs.

So he was not THAT better player after all. He made a mistake and you punished him for it. That he could not react to your Wail research is just BS, he had a fleet of 200 ships as you say and clearly got it too close to your borders. Therefore he failed with his thinking and scouting, not his reaction....

Bottom line, if anything, you should be lucky, there is a gameplay mechanic in place, which allowa you to beat more experienced players as long as they keep doing mistakes. If the more experienced/better always wins, where is the fun and the unpredictability in it? You know, even if football/soccer the lesser team can win, as long as the better one for example handballs the ball in penalty box, for which is punished by the penalty kick. Yes, its unjust to outplay your opponent, but eventually going down cause of a single mistake, but this is part of the game and it should be.

You can look on this other way around, its only TEC/Advent player, who cry Vasari OP. Anyway, you complain about Vorastra, jumping SBs and Wail as well...so i suppose, that even if not every faction has as good things like Vorastra, some of them do - now why not buff the toys of the factions, which you believe dont? 

I can't tell if this is serious or troll bait....

Or this....

Or this........

I intendedly didn't name him, as he is amongst the best players I know LOL so he was and he is much better than me (although he admitted he didn't take me that serious but without wail full defeat was on the way).

Only Advent and TEC players complain about Vasari OP-ness? LOL there aren't other types of players besides these 3, and I guess Vasari players have brain and they won't argue against (all of) their favourite toys If I were a Vasari player I wouldn't say a thing about Vasari OPness I think, but I rarely play Vasari as I don't like them..

yes, there are no more factions. So if two of them argue the third is OP, that makes them automatically right, yes? As they have majority. So if it was only Advent players complaining, it would have no merit? But as its both Advent and TEC, it has to be true?

Anyway you admit you dont like Vasari, so clearly you are biased here. For the record, so am i, as i like Vasari 

@Seleuceia> so pointing out someone made a mistake thus lost the game is considered trolling these days? Was it you, who got beaten by Turchany?

Anyway, i dont really give a shit whether VL get banned from competitive play, nor any other faction for that matter. It is just funny to observe all these "ban this, ban that" shenanigans. I would bet the moment VL got banned, someone would find out that lets say TEC Rebels are OP compared to remaining factions as well, cause you know, they have TAR and Ragnarov can beat a shit out of Ankylon/Coronata...and whatever else... seems like for everyone to be happy there can be only one single faction, otherwise this stream of complaints wont stop.

I don't even know who Turchany is....I also haven't played on ICO for quite a while, so unless he's referring to an Internet Spades game I've played recently then no....

Besides, haven't you heard about my grand victory over Radio?  All I did was wail his ass despite sucking at everything else and he still is pissy about it...not like Turchany's story is unique or highly suspect....

LOL Ashanti never defeated Seleuceia, I only played once, on his side in a 5v5, probably lost because he was trying to go only starbase on the other front (Vasari), trying out if that is possible.

So I go by the name Ashanti, propably never heard of it as I rarely have the chance to play online, and I can't play on the weekends for an unfortunate reason.

The problem is that WAIL, JUMPING SB, and VORASTRA is significantly better than anything else in the game. Otherwise you are saying interesting things, but it would end ridiculous if people started to say OP on every good stuff.. But a Ragnarov is not even near invincible, not to mention other good toys, the things written in capital letters are hardly counterable and require so much attention like a brain operation.

Advent Rebel without wail, VR without jumping starbase are allowed online, but VL cannot be restricted in an OK way, players cannot tell VL not to build a titan LOL. More and more games ban VL and personally I like this banning as no other faction is as hard as it is, maybe VR is close, but the other two races' factions.. Only if they had the time and resources to build up properly and the VL player haven't (like it's possible when the VL is an eco player..).

OK I don't like Vasari, boom. It was my favourite before coming online, both factions because they were the easiest to kill AI with, as AI stood absolutely no chance against them, but in no circumstances was it a competitive fight neither from my side (as I was just a noob all the time as I look back to my playstyle), neither from AI (as it was cheating all the time).. And in competitive play for me Vasari factions are OP and many agree with it, both factions have so many innate unbalanced things like the phase missile upgrades, offensive early starbases, best late game fleet, supported by a not-much-worse economy than TEC race.. And I wasn't even mentioning the faction-specific stuff. OK many of these can be countered inefficiently, but the things banned from multiplayer games cannot, and Vorastra is becoming one of this group, as even with medium level micro from the owner is it near impossible to kill. Not to mention Advent VS Vasari comparison, the advantage for Vasari is so huge I can only just laugh that it is still not changed in a patch...............................................

Wail is an auto win button.  There's no strategy involved.  It's push button, and out macroing, microing, scouting, countering fleets, etc. is all for naught.  It's stronger than all the super weapons and far cheaper.  If anything actually played as an e-sport for money had that it would immediately no longer be an e-sport based on that 1 ability alone.  The whole damn game Would be shunned.

Fortunately sins is more casual than that and a player base willing to self regulate.  I will say though broken abilities are more fun on a non competitive basis and since that is the majority of sins players/games I would actually say leave as is, however.  If they do want to make an ultra balanced competitive version I would say make it a toggle in game options.

Ah yes....I remember that game, an interesting experiment that did unfortunately probably cost us....