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Galactic Civilizations: The case for no multiplayer

Galactic Civilizations: The case for no multiplayer

Not all strategy games benefit from multiplayer

Galactic Civilizations is the only Windows game I've ever worked on that isn't multiplayer. 

The first Windows game I developed, Entrepreneur, had multiplayer. It included a built-in chat area and match-making.  Stellar Frontier also had multiplayer -- up to 64 players on a persistent world.  The Corporate Machine had multiplayer.  The Political Machine had multiplayer.

In short, I've worked on a lot of multiplayer games.  Moreover, I play multiplayer games. As was pointed out on-line, I played Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Warcraft 3, and several other strategy games a great deal on-line in a "Ranked" capacity.  I've tried out nearly every major strategy game from Master of Orion 2 to HOMM 3 to Civ 3:PTW/Civ 4 multiplayer.

From this, I've concluded two things:

1) Some strategy games really benefit from a multiplayer component. Multiplayer extends their "fun" lifespan.

2) Some strategy games don't benefit from multiplayer and the sacrifices made for multiplayer lessened the overall experience.

To people who don't develop games, multiplayer may seem like a simple checkbox feature.  Indeed, many developers I've spoken to feel pressured to put multiplayer in because some reviewers will give the game a lower score if it lacks it despite the fact that for most strategy games, the percentage of players playing on-line is very low.

But multiplayer brings sacrifices that many people may not be aware of. Galactic Civilizations II was developed so that multiplayer could be added later (i.e. it passes messages back and forth).  But the gameplay was not.  We were not willing to sacrifice the single-player experience for multiplayer.

I'm going to give three reasons why multiplayer does not make sense in Galactic Civilizations as part of the base game.

#1 It sacrifices single player features.  Ask any game developer whether they be at Ensemble, Paradox, Firaxis, or Big Huge Games, most people play strategy games by themselves on a single computer.  What % that is depends on the game. But on a TBS game, I would wager that greater than 95% of players never play a single game on-line even if the option is available -- that includes Civilization IV.

But developing multiplayer is incredibly time-consuming and expensive. In our last game, The Political Machine, a full third of the budget was for multiplayer. The game was ideally suited for multiplayer, published by Ubi Soft it would sell a ton of copies.  The game came out and sure enough, only a tiny percent of people played the game multiplayer.  That tiny percent didn't justify the 33% budget dedicated to them.

My favorite game of 2005 was Civilization IV. It has multiplayer in it that is as good if not better than any implementation in the history of turn-based games.  But what was sacrificed in exchange?  There's no campaign.  There's no in-depth scenarios.  No in-depth random events.  You can only trade certain items and techs back and forth no matter what.  Do you think this is a coincidence?  No random civil wars based on certain criteria?  No war-causing assasinations? No crusades? Not even once in a long while?  I suspect that there were a lot of concepts and features that Civ IV would have had if it didn't have multiplayer.

When we were making Galactic Civilizations II, we took a poll on multiplayer. Only a small percentage of GalCiv I players cared about it.  We took additional polls since multiplayer advocates were so vocal.  Same thing.

So instead, Galactic Civilizations II got ship design and a campaign.   I think most people would agree that we could have taken GalCiv I, slapped a 3D engine on it, given it multiplayer and been in good shape.  But can anyone who's played the beta imagine the game without ship design?  And when you play the campaign, I think you'll find that was worth it too.

Moreover, players get a lot more single player experience.  There are rare events that players may only see once in a great while but they're worth it -- a religions war that breaks empires in pieces. New republics formed from remnants of shattered civilizations.  Civil wars. Precursor ships found on worlds. Powerful artifacts that slowly increase the power of a given civilization so that everyone has to team up on them. Terrorists. On and on.  In multiplayer, this would all have to be turned off, but then again, if there had been multiplayer, whey develop any of this at all if it wasn't always going to be used?

Similarly, there's diplomacy.  Last night, I played as the galactic arms dealer.  The Drengin and Torians were at war and I was supplying both sides with ships for money. I then took that money and slowly bought up the worlds of dying civilizations.  That kind of flexibility in diplomacy would be a nightmare in multiplayer, you'd have to put all kinds of restrictions in the name of balance.

#2 The majority ends up subsidizing the minority. Outside some game reviewers and people who have friends who are really into this stuff, most people don't know other people on-line to play these games with.  And let's face it, playing a turn-based strategy game with strangers is an excercise in frustration (I am not sure I've ever actually managed to complete a TBS on-line without the other player either dropping or quitting prematurely).

Galactic Civilizations II is $40. Not $50.  That $10 may not seem like a lot to some people but to many gamers it makes a difference.  Check out the prices on the latest multiplayer strategy games -- they're $49.99.  Part of that price is to subsidize the multiplayer component that only a tiny percentage of users will play.

If there's sufficient demand for multiplayer, we'll do it -- but as an expansion.  Those who want multiplayer can then buy it and those who don't aren't forced to pay for it.  And everyone wins because they saved $10 in the first place.

Because of the Metaverse, GalCiv II already has multiplayer plumbing.  We even have a multiplayer design.  But it'll cost money and time to implement it. So if there's demand, we'll do it. But it has to be demand in raw numbers, not just vocalness of the people who want it.

#3 It would have changed the design priorities.

When you design from the start to be a good multiplayer experience you have to make sure the game is streamlined -- particular the interface.  So things that might slow the multplayer pacing tend to come out.

Galactic Civilizations has lots of mini-cut scenes in it.  Things to help the player enjoy and savor the civilization they've created. The technology tree is huge and designed to linger through and pick just the right one.  The ship design is full of extras that are there so that players can make cool looking ships.  The battle screen was implemented to be not just functional but fun to watch. The planetary details screens include quotes from random citizens and there's flavor text all over.  Each civilization has its own vocabulary based on who it is talking to (i.e. how a Torian talks to a Terran is different than how they would talk to a Drengin).

But a good multiplayer game has to be far more streamlined. You don't want to have core features that encourage users to do anything but move their units and make their decisions efficiently.  Take a look carefully at any decent multiplayer games recently and notice how efficient they are.  Efficient is great in a multiplayer game.  But in a single player game, there is something to be said I think for inefficiency -- for fluff.

And because we designed the game from the ground up to be a single player experience, Galactic Civilizations II has a LOT of fluff:

The screenshot below, I designed all the ships in this particular game. Every new game I make new ships. Why? Because it's fun. It's not efficient though from a sheer "get to the next turn quickly" point of view:

And what's the point of sitting there watching your ships battle it out?

In fact, there's a ton of things that involve reading quite a bit of text. There's a lot of customization within the game that has no "point" other than to let players indulge in the civilization they've created.

It's not that a game with multiplayer can't have these things. Civilization IV has the Civpedia for instance.  But the tendancy in a good multiplayer game is to move the text and other stuff out of the way during gameplay and out to a place where it's looked at at ones leisure.  And that's a good idea in a multiplayer designed game.

But these days, nearly all games are designed with multiplayer in mind.  And for people who have no shortage of choices on multiplayer, it's nice to have a good old fashioned single player experience where you can sit down and indulge yourself to the full experience. 

I remember a game called Master of Magic back in the early 90s. It was a great game. But it was only a great game because it was single-player.  The things that made it really neat would have been a disaster in multiplayer. 

And that's really the point -- multiplayer is a feature. Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.  In some RPGs sometimes they're better being single player (Knights of the Old Republic) and sometimes they're better being multiplayer (Neverwinter Nights).

For those who think multiplayer is a must in strategy games I hope this post has at least made the case that maybe sometimes multiplayer doesn't belong in the base game. 

We know how to make multiplayer games. We had the budget to make GalCiv II a multiplayer game if we wanted. We like multiplayer games.  But we felt that GalCiv II would be a better game if multiplayer was not part of the base game. 

 

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Reply #26 Top
I see the light now. I thought (wrongly) once that MP would be a good thing. I've come to see it Frogboy's way.
Reply #27 Top
Hello, I have to write my opinion on this one.

I realise that developing good singleplay and good multiplay almost is like developing 2 games. Thats why I see your decision as a good one, because many small-midsize companies try to make a single+multi game that they dont have enough funds to develop and the result is a overall mediocre game with lacking multiplay, stability issues and such things.
A game that people say "this game was promising with lots of potential but it lack this and that so unfortunately it sucked major".
The result is that noone else dares to fund a similar game again.

However I believe that multiplay is bigger than 10%, but it must be executed right. Take a look at a game such as starcraft (I know its a fast paced game). Blizzard having many AAA titles under their belt have the funds to have a good online service where you dont need to be some kind of diehard computer expert to connect with your friends.
Multiplay means longlivety and in the long run many of those who have been playing single player will discover the fun of multiplay. Games such as quake and starcraft got huge because of multiplay.
Looking at the turn based / 4X scene how many games are there with a good multiplayer support? Where do you have something comparable to battle.net in a turnbased game with ladders and the ease of use? Nowhere (I haven't had a chance to checkout CIV4). I tried to play Master of orion2 online, I tried to play HOMM-3 online. Awesome games that I had lots of fun playing with my friends. But playing them online is a freakin headache.
Patching issues, out of sync problems, its almost impossible to finnish a whole game if you even manage to connect in the first place.

The reson 5-10% are playing online in a 4x game is because its too hard to connect and play a whole game. There is no autopatching, there is no smooth way to setup games, no smart way to save and return to a saved game. 4x-multiplaying will never take off until someone makes a good service to find and setup games.

I personaly love 4x gaming but playing a game that does not have multiplaying for me feels pointless. If I cant play versus my friends there is no real fun for me. Like I said in the beginning I understand the decision, and seeing that you might develop a multiplayer expansion for the game I really hope you take the chance and that you dont just develop a multiplay addon. If you want to see more than 5-10% of the buyers playing online you have to make it good.
You need to sort out issues such as described above otherwise there is no economical point in doing it.

And yeah for anyone getting irritated on spelling errors and gramatical errors, english is not my first language.
Reply #28 Top
Pirhana, I think there are two main reasons that multiplayer is manditory in RTS games and almost neglected in TBS games.

First, there's the issue of changes to the UI. Lan/Internet MP is a natural fit for RTS, as you just need to make sure you avoid situations like computer A thinking unit 1 killed unit 2 before it died, but computer B thinks it's the other way around, which is usually handled by having the hosting computer make all the combat rolls. There's no real changes needed to the UI, since everyone is playing at the same time. With most TBS games, each player takes turns, so MP games involve more waiting than playing. Some games have simultaneous turns for MP play, but then you have SP and MP games playing in a radically different manner (I believe Civ3:PTW did this). Other games have all combat resolved simultaneously at the start or end of the turn, whether SP or MP, which is a better solution, in my mind (MoO3 did this, one of the few things they got right). GC1 or 2 just isn't a game that would translate into simultaneous moves well.

Second, there's the AI issue. RTS games have less time for the AI to make decisions, so the AI's ability to fight tends to suffer. Because of this, an AI's ability to challenge the player in the same way as a human would is severely hampered. I'm playing the GC2 gamma, and the AI is noticably better than it was during beta. And I'm not even able to play on the level where the AI has any benefits over me. The AI lacks a human's killer instinct, but it makes up for it in other areas.

Speaking of HOMM, that's the one enjoyable MP TBS gaming experience I've had, but that was done Hotseat, with each of us kibitzing on the other players moves. I'm not sure that my girlfriend would be interested in playing GC2 hotseat, but that's probably the only way I'd play it MP. (She has, however, already told me that she wants her computer upgraded to meet the requirements for HOMM5 before its release )

I wouldn't worry about your spelling and gramatical errors, I wouldn't have thought a thing of it if you hadn't brought it up. Don't know if that's complimenting your English or insulting our educational system, but I've seen far worse from so-called native speakers.
Reply #29 Top
The AI deal is something that you have a point in, however if you play a game enough you will find paterns in the computer AI in turn based games aswell, atleast that is my experience so far. I havent played GC2 so I dont know in this game, but in my mind you quickly figure out how to outsmart the comp. My experience is that a experienced human player vs a "supposed to be impossible" computer player is that the computer is ultra agressive making it tough in the beginning but as soon as you survived to a critical point you will tear the computer.
I have played MOO2 singleplayer alot. I still play it today now and then but for me singleplayer is like training ground for multiplayer games. If there is no "real deal" there is no reason for training and figuring out good build/tech orders.

The pacing problem is probably the major issue in my mind. I play HOMM3 with friends over LAN now and then but playing more than 3 humans can be quite frustraiting because the long waits. We have "solved" this by playing a game of HOMM3 and Chaos overlords simultaniously .
I have actually thought about diffrent solutions and possiblities to fix pacing in TBS games.
In my mind all players must make their moves simultaniously, its really the only way if you want to play with many humans in the game. This might mean that single and multi is played very diffrent but thats better than making a fun singleplayer game and check boxning multiplayer that noone will play online because it takes an hour to wait for your turn if you play with more that 2-3 ppl.
Multiplayer needs faster pacing and if that means changing combat into slowmoving realtime combat and removing some unnecessary but cool features like choosing look of your spaceship hull, or streamlining the workflow its still better.
Right now there is not a single popular space 4x game that has even decent multiplayer online support. There must be a market for that.
In a game like MOO2 each army could be moving slowly at each other in realtime and the weapon, aiming computer, special equipment should decide who gets to fire first and that the ships would fire automaticly when in range, but you can click ships and choose who they should fire at and with which canon, moving direction and so on.

I read that HOMM5 will have one gametype where you can control ghosts when your turn is over, so you will have something to do while waiting for the other players.
One other solution that could work in the beginning in some TBS games is to allow players to play on diffrent turns. Like when Im done at turn 5 I start playing turn 6 even when your are still playing turn 5. This would only work when there is no possiblity that I can interact with something that you can interact with before you are at turn 6 aswell. I don't know if this would work for a game such as GC as I havent played it. Playing 2-3 turns ahead of other players would ofcourse be a risk, but you could always move back to the turn the last player is still playing to fix misstakes, but as soon as all players have clicked end turn 1 time that turn would be closed.
If you really want to force pacing you could give every turn a certain time before it is closed and when you jump to the next turn time is added from the previous turn, this way people would play fast to have extra time when they need to spend extra time managing something that requires more time. Combat could take place (in realtime) in the turns so you have ongoing battles in windows that you can maximize and minimize.

Some people would complain that its not a TBS game anymore but a hybrid might be the only way to make it work online really well.

I'm looking forward to HOMM5 too, and to a multiplayer version of GC2. Since MOO3 was more or less a disaster in my mind there has been a lack of 4x games with multiplayer options for very long now.

Ah great, on some forums people attack you for misspelling because you don't agree with their point of view .
Reply #30 Top
Agreed, I'm not saying that a good AI can completely make up for a talented and bloodthirsty human opponent, just saying that the weaker AI of RTS games in general means that the need for human opponents is that much stronger than it is in TBS games.

I'm one of those that think that adding realtime moves to GC would have a negative impact. I can't focus on my empire if I have to spend every game moment watching everything that's going on to make sure that I respond to any emergencies. Imagine someone taking out a starbase on a resource. As it is now, the resource is yours as long as you brought constructors along. With simultaneous turns, all of a sudden anyone that had a constructor handy and was watching could jump your claim. I want to play chess, not slap-jack

I'd be willing to play an RTS game based in the GC universe, but I wouldn't want that to replace the TBS GC that I know and love. That said, I certainly wouldn't complain about being able to play GC2 hotseat or PBEM.
Reply #31 Top
I agree. I want a TBS not a RTS. I like RTS very much, but this is a TBS, one of the few so I want it to remain true to TBS gameplay. However for a multiplayer component to make a impact on sales I think it needs to be playable online and that requires faster gameplay. I mean if this game gets a multiplayer component that is like a singleplayer game over LAN, Hotseat or gamespy I would probably buy it and try to get a game with my friends. But Im a hardcore TBS gamer who is dying to play a fun TBS game especially one in space. I don't think a multiplayer like that would attract new gamers, only longtime hardcore TBS players who keep an eye on all TBS games will buy the multiplayer component and I think from a economical standpoint it wouldnt be that interesting. Its probably a safer shot to create GC3 if GC2 was selling well enough.
Making a online version of the game would be a gamble because some TBS gamers might be put off if the game is not like they are used to from playing singleplayer, but I believe its the only chance for online TBS gaming to ever take off.

My guess is that it would have to be a stand alone product that is GC2 translated into good online multiplayer TBS.

Im with you that a TBS game should be like chess, I dont want the fastest clicker to win the game, but I don't want to play a online game where someone is looking through techtrees, spending time to design a nice looking ship, going through every planets production just to be sure every turn. Simultanious turns can work if combat is solved at the end of turns.

I know there are atleast two types of players in TBS gaming. One like me that want a multiplayer oriented game that focus on a good challange against friends with a singleplayer component thrown in for practise use. I dont give a shit about a campaign because the last time I played a campaign was in Dune2.
The other side like to play around for themselves with no hurry or stress, just figure out details of the game. A friend of mine who played MOO2 just as much as I did never wanted to play vs me. But he would sit and take over the whole universe and just try to capture antaran spaceships to build his own antaran army. We both loved the game but we played two diffrent kind of games.
Reply #32 Top
Has any one of you ever played a game where you thought the AI was better than another sentient via multiplayer and not just because of cheating? GalCiv I for Windows was a game like that to me. I often found myself thinking "that AI is damn clever". Sometimes I suspected Brad of manipulation games from afar. I guess the many updates and analysis of Metaverse-games really worked in beefing the AI up, it got better and better. I eventually lost intrest, mostly because of the graphics and some tiring repetitions but I am hoping GalCiv II will fix this while still having the excellent GalCiv I-style AI.
Reply #33 Top
Geckomind:
That happened to me a couple of times when I started playing a new game and the computer suprised me with moves that I didn't expect from a computer. But so far I always figured it out after a while. In starcraft for example I beat 7 comps really easy, but when I got the game I thought the 1 comp was a challenge because I wasn't used to someone going for a attack early in the game.
Same goes for MOO2, I thought that the AI was very believable at first when it wanted to make treatys with me instead of sending its army straight at me, but now impossible difficulty means impossible to lose more or less because I know exactly how the computer will play so I just counter it spending as litle energy as possible while building up my empire .

Sitting here and discussing it I might have to buy GC2 just to try the AI out. With the hope of a multiplayer version of the game it might even be woth it .
Reply #34 Top
I think the main prob is always that a roundbased Game that so big like GC2 take to much time before all make there turn it take mabye hours specialy when one have 20 colonys the ather only 10 or 5 than everyone will create his ships...btw wow the picture shows for me USS Ryan a Enterprice - Souveran- Class - Ship i thimk back to "Birth of the Feaderation"....this make mulitplayer very complicatet and perhaps bowrring or you will wait 2 hours till your next turn because one need so long to creat ships an manage his 10 colony empire? to limetet time is not fair because a 25 colony empire need more time than a singel planet player for that reason the gameworld have a lot good fast muliplayer games as well
Reply #35 Top
Yup, that picture does indeed look like ole Enterprise B!

@Pirhana: Good point. But seeing that I already have not enough time to play Civ IV enough to figure that AI out...
And if Stardock keeps up their record of "patches" like for GalCiv I, the AI will definitely change and learn. Especially if Frogboy keeps analysing the Metaverse's top players.
Reply #36 Top
Well, much of the fun of a multiplayer game is trashing your friends. Even playing Lan/Hotseat games with pizza, drinking beer etc.

As Piranha pointed out no 4x TBS game has been really made for multiplayer.

One thing which comes to my mind to is the separation of movement and building phase:

In one turn a player moves his ships etc. meanwhile the other player is designing its ships / giving orders to its plaents reagarding building of units etc. ... Or simply put in a good way to chat with other players while waiting

Until I play Galciv2 I can´t even guess if it would be possible to include a good MP still Frogboy mentioned that Galciv2 would include the possibilty to build in MP later on ( I have been one of the nuts who bought the different Civ3 expansions in the hope of a really working multiplayer, bought Civ2 again to have multiplayer etc.)

Point is Multiplyer + 1-2 new campaigns would be reason enough for me to spend again 29,99 $ if I like the basic game well enough.

Up to now I hope for a huge sucess for GalCiv2 (more reasonalbe hope then for a good MP expansion)

Regardign PBEM play: It lacks for the sense of competion games move along to slowly: Examples are for here G. World at war. I had started though many PBME games and finished only very few because palyers simply disappared over the weeks. Other games like strategic command playing TCP/IP are still fun (and a game can take up to 20hours )
Reply #37 Top
Well I haven't checked out CIV4 either becuase I dont have as much time as I used to and I was disapointed with CIV3 plus its multiplayer expansion. I have read that CIV4 is much better so might be worth a look if I dont go for GC2.

Like midnightsun says, one fun aspect of MP is the social game with friends and that type of MP does not have to be superfast, its the hardcore online play does require more speed to gain popularity.

One idea I thought about today that could be fun is a stockmarket that you can play so you can gain financialy while waiting for the other players to finish their turn. If the game included resources you could have a kind of stockmarket for resources aswell.

Lord Doom: I hear that I should not play versus you when the MP expansion is released .
A 25 colony player will require more time than someone with 10 colonys in todays 4X games, but using build lists and other tools it should be possible to make the difference less.
Didnt MOO3 give you a certain amount of "command points" so you could only do a few things per turn? Its a pity that the game itself sucked when they tried to make a good multiplayer option for it.

For me it does not require 1-2 new campaigns. I would pay $150 for a good multiplayer 4x with solid onlinegaming. But thats me .
Reply #38 Top
I simply loved playing MoO2 hotseat with my friends or just with my brother and later on via LAN. sure it took a while, especially later on, but it was well worth it.

Iam still playing Civ2 with a friend via e-Mail. We do maybe 3-6 turns a week each (so a game takes years literally), but it sure is still fun. our first game began in 2001 during high school. we are pretty much done with it now and started another one a while (long while) ago, but still carry the first game along where we conquered the world. Iam still busy transforming the himalaya into irrigated grasslands and fighting barbarians...
So in about 5 years we played our first game from 4000 BC to right now 1929 AD. ^^

Civ4 rocks btw. too bad its requirements are too extreme for my friend. but I play it with my brother in LAN and its really good (tho they still need to work on performance and crashes, its not "rock solid" by any means).

anyway @ Stardock: go make a MP expansion, going to buy it for sure.

for now Iam waiting on GC2...
Reply #39 Top
I wish those guys at Firaxis had the same mentality about multiplayer as Stardock. When i played civ4 a few times i got the feeling that many things were missing. It's still a good game but it could have been so much more. I mean, check out the civ fanatics forums. There are many complaints that the game's focus on multiplayer has sucrificed a lot of things in singleplayer. For example, i would love it if theAI wasn't so damn stupid!

As Frogboy said, most players don't play online at all.

Thank God there are still developers like Stardock who know what a gamer wants!
Reply #40 Top
Not a Multiplayer fan so from my point of view the idea of a $10 add-on for multiplayer so as to save me the $10 is a great idea. Thanks guys for having the kahoonas to go with the single player aspect
Reply #41 Top
I'm not really in with the whole multiplayer thing so I'm glad Stardock decided to make the game for single-player initially and allowed for the ability to add multiplayer later on for those that want it. So sit back, relax, and have a good time playing the game for what it is. Because if there is enough demand (I'm sure there will be), Stardock will put out an update and/or expansion pack that enables multiplayer.
Reply #42 Top
Single Player to the core. So I', glad that there are still companies out there who don't jump blindly on the Multiplayer bandwagon!


Reply #43 Top
Really, what would have to do to have a TBS play online would be to set up queues, build orders, research orders, design your ships, (but NOT move orders) etc during your opponent(s)' turn so that way, those minutes just spent sitting there are spent doing something. Therefore, when you get to your own turn, money is then spent on the build and research orders you've made and the only thing left to do is to move your ships and manage your economy. That A) makes sure all of your time is utilized and B) makes your individual turns faster since you only have to deal with ship movements and battle.

The above is not to say that you're building stuff during your opponent's turn, and when your turn comes you'll automatically have those ships. You're just setting up the orders. You're not building/researching anything.
Reply #44 Top
Multiplayer is nice for some games but Iam glad they wing solo on Galactic Civ 2.

I have alrdy spread the GalCiv2 loving to all my friends, so hopefully we get killer (multiplayer) expansion pack in the future
Reply #45 Top
You know the more I think about it the more I think Multiplayer would be damn fun for Gal Civ 2 ... but ONLY as an email type game. This would be pretty slow in the beginning where you only have two or three things to do before you have to 'send your turn' in for the day. But if you could start with 4 or 5 planets right off the bat that might make things more interesting.

Not sure how you would handle diplomacy though. Could real players wheel and deal free form or would they be forced to use the interface? How would relations work and diplomacy modifiers vs human players.

Definitely not a trivial project.

Dano
Reply #46 Top
I just want to say that I'm really glad that you folks decided to concentrate on the single-player game first. I think I'm probably the only gamer in existance who pretty much never plays multiplayer... I like being able to go through a game at my own pace, style, and (usually pitiful) skill level without having to worry about somebody else kicking my butt so much I can never get anywhere.

As such, I always get disappointed whenever I hear a review for a new game, and it says something like "Yeah, the single-player's kind of lame, but it's just a taste for the multi-player, which is the *real* draw." So, yet another cool-looking game it would be a waste of time for me to buy.

I don't mean to diss people who like multi-player... but it just gets frustrating that *everything's* all big on multi-player nowadays, so it's nice to hear about a game that wants to try to deliver a great single-player experience.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Reply #47 Top
I agree its good they focused on single player first; make a really solid core and then try expanding it. Games like this can be fun in mulitplayer but they take a very long time especially if you have several equal skilled players. As someone who can't play games as much as I like single play is far more important to me in a long game like this.

Take the example of one of the few civ 4 online matches I've played; I was Ghandi and india as usual and as usual eveyone for some reason wants to destroy Ghandi first (WHY!?! ) so I became locked in a war with the french at the start who seemed to find the indian people quite a joke. He wasn't laughing when we pushed him back to our borders and realized he could not match our industrial capacity to replace losses however MHAHAHA. Ahem.

By this point a number of hours had passed and I really needed to be somewhere but frankly Ghandi was angry and he wanted revenge!!! So several more hours passed.......

Hmmm. Enormous fun don't get me wrong but wow it just shows that for alot of us the multiplay of a game like this is not as practical So yep I totally agree, I will be buying gal civ 2 almost entirely for its singleplayer component.
Reply #48 Top
What a great dissertation! I only play single player and enjoy all that extra fluff developers throw into a single player only game. I was debating between Star Wars:Empires at War and Battles for Middle Earth 2. At first I wasn't even considering Galciv2, but after seeing the trailer, screenshots (I am a graphic whore) and reading this post, my one game budget is going to purchase Galciv2! Bravo to Stardock for focusing their resources on single player, they have won another customer!
Reply #49 Top
Personally I always like to play turn based strategy games with friends behind one PC (hoseat mode). In that case there isn't really any time pressure, we just look at what the other person is doing.
Reply #50 Top
Just wanted to say that I play 98% of my gaming as single-player - even MP-centered games like AoM and Guild Wars. I like to stop and start the game, log in to play for 15 minutes then log out again, and not have to deal with chat-speak.

I've tried hotseat, PBEM, and "simultaneous" TBS MP, and none of those experiences was satisfying. To Civ-normalize the experiences, none of them lasted past 1 AD.

I'm glad that Stardock made this design decision, and I support it 100%

That being said, if the MP expansion ever does get greenlit, I think one fun way to do it would be to have the server force updates at a certain time period (which was the format the only successful TBS game I ever played was - a game called Conquer that ran on a mainframe that's sadly lost to the mists of time). Then people could do daily updates, or updates every 60 seconds... just a little easier to manage than PBEM...