Galactic Civilizations: The case for no multiplayer

Not all strategy games benefit from multiplayer

Galactic Civilizations is the only Windows game I've ever worked on that isn't multiplayer. 

The first Windows game I developed, Entrepreneur, had multiplayer. It included a built-in chat area and match-making.  Stellar Frontier also had multiplayer -- up to 64 players on a persistent world.  The Corporate Machine had multiplayer.  The Political Machine had multiplayer.

In short, I've worked on a lot of multiplayer games.  Moreover, I play multiplayer games. As was pointed out on-line, I played Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Warcraft 3, and several other strategy games a great deal on-line in a "Ranked" capacity.  I've tried out nearly every major strategy game from Master of Orion 2 to HOMM 3 to Civ 3:PTW/Civ 4 multiplayer.

From this, I've concluded two things:

1) Some strategy games really benefit from a multiplayer component. Multiplayer extends their "fun" lifespan.

2) Some strategy games don't benefit from multiplayer and the sacrifices made for multiplayer lessened the overall experience.

To people who don't develop games, multiplayer may seem like a simple checkbox feature.  Indeed, many developers I've spoken to feel pressured to put multiplayer in because some reviewers will give the game a lower score if it lacks it despite the fact that for most strategy games, the percentage of players playing on-line is very low.

But multiplayer brings sacrifices that many people may not be aware of. Galactic Civilizations II was developed so that multiplayer could be added later (i.e. it passes messages back and forth).  But the gameplay was not.  We were not willing to sacrifice the single-player experience for multiplayer.

I'm going to give three reasons why multiplayer does not make sense in Galactic Civilizations as part of the base game.

#1 It sacrifices single player features.  Ask any game developer whether they be at Ensemble, Paradox, Firaxis, or Big Huge Games, most people play strategy games by themselves on a single computer.  What % that is depends on the game. But on a TBS game, I would wager that greater than 95% of players never play a single game on-line even if the option is available -- that includes Civilization IV.

But developing multiplayer is incredibly time-consuming and expensive. In our last game, The Political Machine, a full third of the budget was for multiplayer. The game was ideally suited for multiplayer, published by Ubi Soft it would sell a ton of copies.  The game came out and sure enough, only a tiny percent of people played the game multiplayer.  That tiny percent didn't justify the 33% budget dedicated to them.

My favorite game of 2005 was Civilization IV. It has multiplayer in it that is as good if not better than any implementation in the history of turn-based games.  But what was sacrificed in exchange?  There's no campaign.  There's no in-depth scenarios.  No in-depth random events.  You can only trade certain items and techs back and forth no matter what.  Do you think this is a coincidence?  No random civil wars based on certain criteria?  No war-causing assasinations? No crusades? Not even once in a long while?  I suspect that there were a lot of concepts and features that Civ IV would have had if it didn't have multiplayer.

When we were making Galactic Civilizations II, we took a poll on multiplayer. Only a small percentage of GalCiv I players cared about it.  We took additional polls since multiplayer advocates were so vocal.  Same thing.

So instead, Galactic Civilizations II got ship design and a campaign.   I think most people would agree that we could have taken GalCiv I, slapped a 3D engine on it, given it multiplayer and been in good shape.  But can anyone who's played the beta imagine the game without ship design?  And when you play the campaign, I think you'll find that was worth it too.

Moreover, players get a lot more single player experience.  There are rare events that players may only see once in a great while but they're worth it -- a religions war that breaks empires in pieces. New republics formed from remnants of shattered civilizations.  Civil wars. Precursor ships found on worlds. Powerful artifacts that slowly increase the power of a given civilization so that everyone has to team up on them. Terrorists. On and on.  In multiplayer, this would all have to be turned off, but then again, if there had been multiplayer, whey develop any of this at all if it wasn't always going to be used?

Similarly, there's diplomacy.  Last night, I played as the galactic arms dealer.  The Drengin and Torians were at war and I was supplying both sides with ships for money. I then took that money and slowly bought up the worlds of dying civilizations.  That kind of flexibility in diplomacy would be a nightmare in multiplayer, you'd have to put all kinds of restrictions in the name of balance.

#2 The majority ends up subsidizing the minority. Outside some game reviewers and people who have friends who are really into this stuff, most people don't know other people on-line to play these games with.  And let's face it, playing a turn-based strategy game with strangers is an excercise in frustration (I am not sure I've ever actually managed to complete a TBS on-line without the other player either dropping or quitting prematurely).

Galactic Civilizations II is $40. Not $50.  That $10 may not seem like a lot to some people but to many gamers it makes a difference.  Check out the prices on the latest multiplayer strategy games -- they're $49.99.  Part of that price is to subsidize the multiplayer component that only a tiny percentage of users will play.

If there's sufficient demand for multiplayer, we'll do it -- but as an expansion.  Those who want multiplayer can then buy it and those who don't aren't forced to pay for it.  And everyone wins because they saved $10 in the first place.

Because of the Metaverse, GalCiv II already has multiplayer plumbing.  We even have a multiplayer design.  But it'll cost money and time to implement it. So if there's demand, we'll do it. But it has to be demand in raw numbers, not just vocalness of the people who want it.

#3 It would have changed the design priorities.

When you design from the start to be a good multiplayer experience you have to make sure the game is streamlined -- particular the interface.  So things that might slow the multplayer pacing tend to come out.

Galactic Civilizations has lots of mini-cut scenes in it.  Things to help the player enjoy and savor the civilization they've created. The technology tree is huge and designed to linger through and pick just the right one.  The ship design is full of extras that are there so that players can make cool looking ships.  The battle screen was implemented to be not just functional but fun to watch. The planetary details screens include quotes from random citizens and there's flavor text all over.  Each civilization has its own vocabulary based on who it is talking to (i.e. how a Torian talks to a Terran is different than how they would talk to a Drengin).

But a good multiplayer game has to be far more streamlined. You don't want to have core features that encourage users to do anything but move their units and make their decisions efficiently.  Take a look carefully at any decent multiplayer games recently and notice how efficient they are.  Efficient is great in a multiplayer game.  But in a single player game, there is something to be said I think for inefficiency -- for fluff.

And because we designed the game from the ground up to be a single player experience, Galactic Civilizations II has a LOT of fluff:

The screenshot below, I designed all the ships in this particular game. Every new game I make new ships. Why? Because it's fun. It's not efficient though from a sheer "get to the next turn quickly" point of view:

And what's the point of sitting there watching your ships battle it out?

In fact, there's a ton of things that involve reading quite a bit of text. There's a lot of customization within the game that has no "point" other than to let players indulge in the civilization they've created.

It's not that a game with multiplayer can't have these things. Civilization IV has the Civpedia for instance.  But the tendancy in a good multiplayer game is to move the text and other stuff out of the way during gameplay and out to a place where it's looked at at ones leisure.  And that's a good idea in a multiplayer designed game.

But these days, nearly all games are designed with multiplayer in mind.  And for people who have no shortage of choices on multiplayer, it's nice to have a good old fashioned single player experience where you can sit down and indulge yourself to the full experience. 

I remember a game called Master of Magic back in the early 90s. It was a great game. But it was only a great game because it was single-player.  The things that made it really neat would have been a disaster in multiplayer. 

And that's really the point -- multiplayer is a feature. Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.  In some RPGs sometimes they're better being single player (Knights of the Old Republic) and sometimes they're better being multiplayer (Neverwinter Nights).

For those who think multiplayer is a must in strategy games I hope this post has at least made the case that maybe sometimes multiplayer doesn't belong in the base game. 

We know how to make multiplayer games. We had the budget to make GalCiv II a multiplayer game if we wanted. We like multiplayer games.  But we felt that GalCiv II would be a better game if multiplayer was not part of the base game. 

 

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Reply #1 Top
I myself am delighted with the ship design, the animated battles and the extra text/humor that I have seen so far. I am drooling waiting to see the campaign. I have never really enjoyed multiplayer games and will gladly save the $10.00 and not purchase that particular expansion if it ever does come out. That's my two cents. Thanks.
Reply #2 Top
I play Battlefield 2 in a clan of 40 people. That's an entirely visceral multiplayer experience. The number of wankers playing seriously degrades the experience, and if it weren't for the fact that I had 40 good mates playing alongside me at one time or another, I don't think the game would be terribly appealing, in hindsight.

I'm _glad_ GC2 isn't multiplayer. You don't need other people for proper immersion and enjoyment. Watching a good immersive movie is a "single player" exerience, and a good single player game is the interactive version of that. Besides, I want to utterly destroy the entire galaxy all by my egotistical, meglomanical self.
Reply #3 Top
I like GC II because I LOVED GC I. In time I am sure GC II will become the favorite of the two for me. Not having multiplayer is a bonus for all the things you mentioned above..
Reply #4 Top
Overall, you've convinced me. For the *base* game. Lots of things are really cool in a single player game, but only for a time. What happens when I've been playing GalCiv2 for months and I'm bored of making new ships? What happens when I decide to finally turn off battles because I've seen it all? What happens when I no longer read the text and indulge myself in the single-player experience? That is the time when MP *can* extend the life of a game. When the player is perfectly happy with an efficient game because it means that he is able to squash his buddies in a "board game" so complex that it could only exist on a computer. In the end, that's one of the great joys of the computer age -- I can take a board game like, say, Risk and begin complexifying (I just made that up, I think) to the point where the new game is nothing like the original -- it's a monster that would be impossible to run but for the computer. That's what makes MP 4X gaming interesting to me. Sure, there are some complex board games out there -- Twilight Imperium, Attack!, traditional wargames. But they take HOURS...honestly, it's much, much easier to play with my friends over the internet for a few hours a week and save the game and come back exactly where we left off than it is to get together for a straight 8 hours (and "saving" a board game is difficult at best, impossible at worst).

In the end, I agree with you on your main points. I'd rather have that SP experience and I'd rather have it for months (or even years) with no MP if having MP would mean sacrificing any of that awesome SP experience. But I think a year or two down the line, after many have experienced all that SP can offer, THEN maybe is the time to start looking at a MP expansion (and I love the idea that you pay for it if you want it...I know I would choose to pay for it, hell, I'd probably pay 20 bucks or more if it included more than just MP).

That's all I have to say about that...now I'm going to be meeting a buddy online for Civ4...
Reply #5 Top
I play my share of multiplayer games, from Battlefield 2 to whatever is the flavor of the month in MMOs, but at the end of the day I love a good singleplayer game I can load up whenever I want. SP games let me play at my own pace, on my own terms. I can sit down and try out a dozen different combinations on my characters and my empires in a matter of hours, instead of days or months with an MMO.

SP games also have the opportunity to tell a story. Multiplayer games can, at best, paint a good backdrop/history and toss you on a bunch of mini-stories that are little more than "My dog is lost! Go find him!" With a SP game the developer can guide a player through a fully crafted story. Even in the most free-form SP games, you can create choke-points in the world that when you reach them, they kick off the next piece of story.

Multiplayer games are meant more to give you a sandbox to play in. They give you the minimum tools needed to achieve goals and let you loose with others to figure out the best/most interesting ways to achieve those goals. Little is done to enrich the experience or give it flavor... you have to depend on the other players for that. And that's why I keep coming back to SP games... I don't always want my gameplay experience to depend on other human beings... they tend to be jerks and often will grief you for the fun of it.
Reply #6 Top
I'd like to respond to the post of apoc527, if I may. Because I think he touched on something that sums up my personal feelings about multiplayer in the strategy environment.


"Lots of things are really cool in a single player game, but only for a time."


That is absoutely true. What is entertaining for the first 20 hours of gameplay will quickly lose its novelty. This is why most RTS, which have really pretty simple mechanics and rule systems when you boil down to it, DEPEND on multiplayer to have any reasonable amount of lifetime. If you look at the trend, RTS gaming is becoming more and more streamlined every year... fewer units on the map, fewer buildings and technologies, less importance and malability of terrain... ( there are a few exceptions, but the big successes are VERY streamlined these days ). It all boils down to a very fast-paced, intense and hopefully balanced multiplayer experience, where the depth of the game is really more about the depth of human adaptability. Achieving that takes major resources.

But that's why true turn-based strategy is really a unique and historic form of gameplay. It's about CONTENT. The content in a 4x game is so much deeper than anything you'd find in a modern RTS. Your options are so vast and have so much greater effect on the results of your choices, and what's more, these options tend to interact with each other in EXTREMELY powerful ways. This allows players to create ellaborate and bizzarre strategies that would be impossible to nail down in the name of balance for a really pure multiplayer experience. That doesn't mean multiplayer 4x can't be fun, but it does mean that you have to find someone who is willing to spend time thinking about their options, and are willing to accept some really unexpected outcomes. For me, that has always been a close friend, not random h4x0rz and l33t d3wdz on the net.

The only time I'm willing to play with the general public is when I believe that I know and understand the general gamut of the strategies available. That way I can have an enjoyable experience, even if I do not like the person I am playing against at all. If I'm going to get run over by some complex and ridiculous strategy, I want to be able to look to my left, smile, and say "good game bro". As opposed to reading, "lol, nub. Get pwned more plz, thx."

So for me, the multiplayer fun potential of a 4x game is really quite limited, and I definitely agree that that the majority of my gameplay is spent in single player. I think sacrificing multiplayer for the sake of content is a fantastic idea here, because when I whip out Alpha Centauri again after 8 years, it's going to be because I want to try a Diplomatic victory, or some crazy faction... not because I want to duke it out on the net.

Anyhoo. I'm a windbag, but there you go.
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Reply #7 Top

A lot of it boils down to how much fun (in hours) you get for your money really.

Most RTSs (in my experience) become stale pretty quickly in single player.  You go through several different maps and then it's the same old things.

By contrast, Civilization IV, which did make some sacrifices for multiplayer, is still a blast months later single player.  I love playing an 8 player tiny map on the American plains at Prince level.  Other times I'll split it up into different islands. 

RTS AIs notoriously are not that good because they don't have the CPU time to calculate good strategies.  But a good AI in turn based games can be a whole different things. Consider this: The AI in Beta 5 which previews and beta testers have argued is "very hard" was largely rewritten because it was considered by us to be inadequate.  It was hard but not smart.  The AI we have now is so much more sophisticated.  The AI doesn't know where the good planets are, it has to build scouts, players are at a much more even level.

Reply #8 Top
uhg u again can we get some sort of admin to kick this guy off? advertising for an old game on someone else's site is just plain stupid i mean i wouldnt mind a "if you like this game be sure to check this one out" but this vastly superior thing is arrogant
Reply #9 Top
He's gone now.
Reply #10 Top
nice thx alot

not that i have anything against MoO2 but this is Galciv2.com no MoO2.com
Reply #11 Top
uhg u again can we get some sort of admin to kick this guy off? advertising for an old game on someone else's site is just plain stupid i mean i wouldnt mind a "if you like this game be sure to check this one out" but this vastly superior thing is arrogant


huh? Did someone delete a post?

I would wager that greater than 95% of players never play a single game on-line even if the option is available -- that includes Civilization IV.


True for me, and I'm LOVING Civ 4.

But a good multiplayer game has to be far more streamlined. You don't want to have core features that encourage users to do anything but move their units and make their decisions efficiently. Take a look carefully at any decent multiplayer games recently and notice how efficient they are. Efficient is great in a multiplayer game. But in a single player game, there is something to be said I think for inefficiency -- for fluff.


Very true. I love the fluff. It would be annoying to wait for your online opponent to enjoy their fluff. Why do I keep saying "fluff"?

If there's sufficient demand for multiplayer, we'll do it -- but as an expansion. Those who want multiplayer can then buy it and those who don't aren't forced to pay for it. And everyone wins because they saved $10 in the first place.


You can't argue with that. That's at least 2 trips to Starbucks paid for! Does flirting with the coffee server count as a "multiplayer game"?

The first Windows game I developed, Entrepreneur, had multiplayer. It included a built-in chat area and match-making. Stellar Frontier also had multiplayer -- up to 64 players on a persistent world. The Corporate Machine had multiplayer. The Political Machine had multiplayer.


I didn't know that Frogboy had developed so many multiplayer games in the past. Any GalCiv fans tried any other games from the Stardock library? What are some of your favorites?
Reply #12 Top
By contrast, Civilization IV, which did make some sacrifices for multiplayer, is still a blast months later single player. I love playing an 8 player tiny map on the American plains at Prince level. Other times I'll split it up into different islands.
Hey, thanks for the tip Frogboy.
I'd be seriously hurting waiting for GC2 to be done if not for GC1, Civ3 and now Civ4.

It would be hard to debate that multiplayer should be part of the base game from your pointed post.
I wont even attempt it!
I'm going to have a ton of fun getting my behind kicked in GC2. (I haven't played any of the GC2 pre-releases). I'm sure I'll have "shock and awe" for a long time playing GC2.

Keep up the excellent work, many thanks!
Reply #13 Top
Wow! that was a very long justification why galcivII has no multiplayer.

I would wager that greater than 95% of players never play a single game on-line even if the option is available -- that includes Civilization IV.


I did played only twice online with Civ 3...

My favorite game of 2005 was Civilization IV. It has multiplayer in it that is as good if not better than any implementation in the history of turn-based games. But what was sacrificed in exchange? There's no campaign. There's no in-depth scenarios.


What would be Civ 4 if it has campaign? I wonder...

Thanks Avatar Frogboy that was very informative...

Reply #14 Top
Very true. I love the fluff. It would be annoying to wait for your online opponent to enjoy their fluff. Why do I keep saying "fluff"?

FLUF! hee-hee-hee FLUF... (errm, is it time for another coffee yet?)...

You can't argue with that. That's at least 2 trips to Starbucks paid for! Does flirting with the coffee server count as a "multiplayer game"?

LOL! It doesn't here, I'm at work, so that would mean flirting with the coffee machine...

Reply #15 Top
Well, I will buy GC2 as soon as possible simply I love these kind of games. Still I am one of the se players who like to play tabletop boardgames, read a book , like good old roleplaying games and play old games as MoO2 , CIV2 , Strategic comannd online....

GC2 looks great and I hope it will be huge sucess, perhaps multiplayer could be then inclued in an expansion. (Scrap the editor I am not a creative player)

Still my greatest wish would be that Stardock would develop a new version of MASTER OF MAGIC!
Reply #16 Top
Well, if the SP surpasses whats in Beta5, I can only say that playing the SP would keep me amused for hours. Ive played so far, only as humans though, for atleast 200 hours. 48 hours in one go once, until I fell asleep from exhaustion.

So, heres to another 200 hours!


I didn't know that Frogboy had developed so many multiplayer games in the past. Any GalCiv fans tried any other games from the Stardock library? What are some of your favorites?


Yeah, Jets'n'Guns has been keeping me amused while Ive been waiting for GCII to go gold, and in the shops! Pretty good for mindless fun for a few hours.
Reply #17 Top
Most of your arguments are sound. I have always felt that if multiplayer were to be a part of a 4x game, it should be planned for, but released later as an expansion so it isn't rushed in, and so other features aren't sacrificed for it. I'm still hoping for a multiplayer expansion, even if it's just play by email. It does take resources, and you guys are in the business of making money like anyone else, so please continue to stay in business!

I'll just put this out there though: story driven campaigns aren't really my thing for 4x. I like to play the standard game, and that's about it. I don't find it particularly "interesting" when suddenly every opponent in the game gets an overwhelming culture bonus, or millions of enemy ships appear and destroy me. I find it annoying that in spite of playing well and by the rules I can suddenly lose the game because of some overpowered random event. Getting a planet upgrade or a new tech or something is one thing, but these whole giant events that completely reverse the game just bug me.

I really like honestly challenging AI, a good interface, lots of ways to strategize and as many diplomatic trading options as possible. Multiplayer really has more diplomatic options. For instance, I can tell my friend, hey, research this, I'll research that and then we'll trade. In a Civ 3 PBEM game I'm playing now, I'm giving cash to my buddy so he can research a tech I want faster while I research something else. This sort of thing isn't possible without multiplayer. I like the fluff too, and in a play by email game, there's no reason to lose it.

In this ever DRM infested PC gaming market, I have a lot of respect for Stardock and applaud all your hard work. But I will always be one of the few begging for multiplayer.
Reply #18 Top
Love the Master of Magic reference, that really was a great game and I hope someone does a proper remake someday. Was playing it via DOSBox a few months ago and other than the lack of build queues, it really holds up on fun factor thanks to all the innovative features. Though HoMM is the closest modern descendant I think MoM still had far more raw game mechanics which added to the experience.

edit: Do excuse that this post doesn't seem to have much to do with GalCiv II, although you could say I'm glad that at least one of the developers remembers Master of Magic. That speaks well of them.
Reply #19 Top
Well Said Brad!

I have been playing multiplayer games for 5 years now and have never once played a multiplayer strategy game. I like a game to last DAYS ... how am I going to get a bunch of people to coordinate their schedules for something like that? Now if there was a way to do a 4x game by email ... now that would be something to consider. Too bad I can't think of any way that could be done ...


PS - if you DO make a multiplayer expansion pack, please don't load a bunch of goodies on it that would be of interest to the single player crowd as well, cause I have no interest in multiplayer GC2

Dano
Reply #20 Top
Frogboy got it right imo Including if there are the numbers for a multiplayer add on I wont be buying but others may JUST the way it should be I to cannot wait to try out the campain
Reply #21 Top
Having read the long list of reasons for why you think multiplayer in a 4x game is not needed I have to disagree. It was pointed out a number of times how few people choose to play online which is true, but there is no mention of how many people play on LAN. I myself play a very wide variety of games including all the civ games, starcraft, all warcraft games and FPS games such as counter-strike and battlefield 2. I usually only play single player as a way to learn and understand a game as i believe the thrill of playing a single player game doesnt even compare to the joy of playing multi player. I love civ4 regularly organize gaming LANs with my friends to play it, but I wouldnt play a TBS online. I just think multi player is an essential part of modern gaming and will always be better even if you have to take out the fluf and streamline a game. As to whether i would pay the extra $10 for multi player, that doesnt even matter as i simply wouldnt buy a game without it any more. The novelty of the extra features will wear off after a while but the fun of playing multi player always lasts much longer.

I wont pretent this is the opinion of the entire market however it is mine and that of the people i know and play with.
Reply #22 Top
How hard would it be to add a PBEM option to Galciv2? I don't know if true MP would be a good thing, but PBEM with 2-4 people and a bunch of AI's would work well. My only concern is some strats would end up being MP-only and some SP-only. That being said, I do understand why MP isn't in GC2- and the emphasis should be on SP, since that's 90% of your marketbase. However, if a fairly easy MP mechanic can be included, it should be. I don't think PBEM option would be ridiculously. You'd have P1 e-mail to P2 then around, who e-mails to P1, then turn executes. You'd be able to keep the SP experience as well. Just don't try to balance the game out for MP- that's too much of a can of worms.
Reply #23 Top
PBEM is certainly possible, at least theoretically ... but I think it would take YEARS to play a game on a large universe.
Reply #24 Top
I'd like to thank you from the bottom of my multiplayer-hating heart. The only multi-player strategy game that I have been able to play for any length of time is "Laser Squad Nemesis" from the guys who made X-Com. But it isn't real multi-player as most people think of it. It's a play-by-email strategy game. What it does, it does well. You send your game turns to each other and respond via e-mail. It can be fun, but it isn't a fast game by any means.

And needless to say, people will quit games mid-turn if they are being beaten.

BTW, I just posted about Master of Magic before reading this post. I still play that game. It ranks as my #1 favorite strategy game of all time. I'm hoping GalCiv2 will be as enjoyable and replayable. The fact that you mentioned it reinforces this hope. I can't wait for the release. This will fill the void that Master of Orion 3 left in my hard drive.
Reply #25 Top
As a long time strategy game player (from a game called Nectaris to C&C, MOO over everything Civ to Dawn of War and the like) I got to agree whole heartedly with Frogboy! How often have I wished for a better single player experience in games. Call me a sociopath, but I LIKE single player! It's what games were made for in the olden days. And I really admire developers who care for the immersiveness of the game experience for users, who care for little details like ship design or cool quotes for technologies (man, that reminds me of SMAC - that game was fun!). When I play a game, I like to lose myself in it, to be part of the game.

The points Frogboy made were all very true. It looks like GalCiv II can beat Civ IV at least in those respects.