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World Of Warcraft and Kids... Not a Great Idea

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World Of Warcraft and Kids... Not a Great Idea

The treadmill effect.

from JoeUser Forums

*inspired by this article

     For those of you who are unfamiliar with the terms used here lets start with MMORPG. That acronym stands for Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. These games are played remotely by millions of players every day. Some of the examples include Everquest (EQ or EverCrack), Ultima Online (UO), and most recently World of Warcraft (WoW). There are others of course and they all vary in terms of game mechanics, scope, and milieu but they all share one core game mechanic : the treadmill.

     The treadmill is the Pavlovian system of action = reward that keeps a gamer gaming. It takes the form of incremental intrinsic character improvements, equipment finds, or even appearance changes. The goal in designing an MMORPG is to give the player "one more thing" to do or get at all times. There is always another skill to impove, a level to gain, or a rare piece of equipment to quest after.

     This system is so well designed and implemented in so many overlapping layers that it is very common to spend far more time playing the game than you think you have spent. After all it will just take another 5 minutes to accomplish that next micro-goal right? Of course that micrro-accomplpisment and it's accompanying reward produce a pretty gratifying feeling of progress and sucess so whats 5 more minutes... and 5 more... and 15 more to group up and camp that boss monster who drops that ultra-rare set of boots that woudl complete that set I have been collecting and... so on.

     I have nothing against this style of gaming, in fact I think they are high art as gaming goes. Games are meant to be compelling and enjoyable and these games are all of that and a bag of holding but they are not a good idea for children.

     Do you think that a 9 or 10 year old has the ability to fend off Pavlov's cycle as I have just described it? Do you think that a 14 year old boy who has all the angst of that age might be able to fend off the feeling that the only progress in their life is the progression they make playing WoW? Think that they are resisting all that cyber-sex chat and simulated character sex going on in their server when they can't get a date in real life? If you do you might be retarded. Get checked out at the doctor and then come back and finish this article.

     The above paragraph is actually the less serious concern here. The fact of the matter is that if your teen or pre-teen is playing WoW then you are letting them have unsupervised Internet interactions with shitloads of adults. Go and check out some WoW player sites for all the cyber-sex, photoexchanges, online "hook-ups", and other unsavory *adult* shit that goes on here.

     Would you let you son/daughter spend 5-30 hours or more a week in adult chatrooms? Would you? Well thats what WoW is folks. It is a playground primarliy made for adults. Adults are the ones with the cash to support the MMORPG industry... not kids.

     If your kid is playing MMORPG's you are taking massive risks in terms of both addiction possibilities and also in terms of allowing them to interact with adults unsupervised. If you are an adult playing this stuff great! Bully for you Elven Ranger Bob! I could give a fuck less where you choose to spend your time. But parents... your kids can't not defend themselves as well as adults against this sort of thing. You have to do it. Be the parent, not their buddy.

 

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Reply #51 from JoeUser Forums Top
For my two cents, I would rather my kid play WoW than something like Counterstrike or Grand Theft Auto III for hours on end.



Children need to be playing outside in the sunshine / dancing in the rain / having snowball fights / reading great books. Kids don't need to be playing on the computer. They need to be out experiencing real life, playing with real friends, and having quality time with real parents.
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #53 from JoeUser Forums Top
Children need to be playing outside in the sunshine / dancing in the rain / having snowball fights / reading great books. Kids don't need to be playing on the computer. They need to be out experiencing real life, playing with real friends, and having quality time with real parents.


The computer is real life, Angela. You can have real friends online (albeit the dynamics are different), and the concepts are just as viable as those you would be exposed to anywhere else.

Dan
Reply #54 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree with the you. MMORPG's are designed by adults, and are primarily an adult playground. However, so is every other video and computer game out there. There are no computer games designed BY children. All computer games are designed by adults.
As for the level of interaction that occurs in an O-RPG, it's actually about the same level of interaction a child would recieve on the school playground. I remember being in 4 th grade (16 years ago) and hearing kids talk about sex and illegal drugs, and even worse topics. I can't even imagine what 4th graders talk about today.
I would be more scared to send my kid school than to let them interact with someone on a computer (because at school there is closer personal contact than there is over a phone line).
But I do agree with you strongly on one main point. "This system is so well designed and implemented in so many overlapping layers that it is very common to spend far more time playing the game than you think you have spent" These games are addictive, for lack of a better term. Perhaps what is needed in the gaming industry is not a better programmer, and not less interaction, but better parental supervision.
Reply #55 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't think this game is good for kids or adults who are likely to become addicted. My husband became addicted to WoW and nearly ended our marriage, playing 12 hours a day or more in order to reach the level he wanted to be at. He didn't even take time out for his own kid. He couldn't see what was happening aorund him because he was so wrapped up in the game. He wouldn't even sit with us for dinner arguing that it was my fault for cooking at the wrong time and when he finally did switch off the computer-sometimes at 4am (and having to go to work at 6am) he had no idea he had been on it for over 12 hours!

But I agree if supervised properly there is no harm and if the person can say it's only a game and as long as they can walk away after an hour or so to do something else. Having said that I would be reluctant to let my son play for fear of it taking over in the way it did his father. As much as I don't like the idea of what my child might pick up from the game I agree that in this day and age it is becoming increasingly more difficult to keep our kids kids and not mini adults! I don't think it is a good idea to encourage children to play these games on a regular basis but like anything moderation (and supervision) is the key.
Reply #56 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't think this game is good for kids or adults who are likely to become addicted. My husband became addicted to WoW and nearly ended our marriage, playing 12 hours a day or more in order to reach the level he wanted to be at. He didn't even take time out for his own kid. He couldn't see what was happening aorund him because he was so wrapped up in the game. He wouldn't even sit with us for dinner arguing that it was my fault for cooking at the wrong time and when he finally did switch off the computer-sometimes at 4am (and having to go to work at 6am) he had no idea he had been on it for over 12 hours!

But I agree if supervised properly there is no harm and if the person can say it's only a game and as long as they can walk away after an hour or so to do something else. Having said that I would be reluctant to let my son play for fear of it taking over in the way it did his father. As much as I don't like the idea of what my child might pick up from the game I agree that in this day and age it is becoming increasingly more difficult to keep our kids kids and not mini adults! I don't think it is a good idea to encourage children to play these games on a regular basis but like anything moderation (and supervision) is the key.
Reply #57 from JoeUser Forums Top
The computer is real life, Angela. You can have real friends online (albeit the dynamics are different), and the concepts are just as viable as those you would be exposed to anywhere else.


That's really sad if anyone actually thinks that spending time on the computer is anything comparable to real life. Educational, yes. Resourceful, yes. A way to spend leisure time? Occasionally. A way to raise your children? SAD!
Reply #58 from JoeUser Forums Top
You had a good article going till you decided to insult the reader with silly "retard" remarks. Some advice treat the reader with courtesy and respect and don't insult them else you won't be taken seriously.

The danger you described will not be as great as you imply. It's only applies to unsupervised children and those with addictive personalities. All these horror stories we read about involve individuals who would be addicted some substance like alchohol or drugs if computer games were not available to them.

Children have different tastes, some will get hooked on the mmog while others will simply have a passing fancy to the hobby. Just like there are kids who eat too much and those that eat too little.
Reply #59 from JoeUser Forums Top

When I called to terminate my son's monthly membership they have to ask you why you're doing it...I told them my son is 10. The lady on the phone said and I QUOTE. "This game is not meant for children by any stretch of the imagination. Supervised or not, we don't recommend it to anyone under 14!"

The danger you described will not be as great as you imply. It's only applies to unsupervised children and those with addictive personalities. All these horror stories we read about involve individuals who would be addicted some substance like alchohol or drugs if computer games were not available to them.



Bull.
Reply #60 from JoeUser Forums Top

It's only applies to unsupervised children and those with addictive personalities.

Exactly... do you know why this is meaningless? Because kids without addictive personalities won't be interested in WoW for more than a week. Ergo it applies to kids who play the game and not the ones who don't thanks for playing.

You had a good article going till you decided to insult the reader with silly "retard" remarks

You had a nice insult free life going on until you decided to read my blog. Fuck off... smacktard.

Reply #61 from JoeUser Forums Top
lol u think ur all that thinkin its all about the sexual crap wellit snot u just r against games
Reply #62 from JoeUser Forums Top
I got a 12 year old son that plays WoW 4 hours every day, He is somewhat addicted but he eats, sleeps and does his homework without a adult havig to say it. Kids that have been monitord their whole life should not been given such a freedom becouse they never learnd how to use it correctly. And yes i whould let my 12 year old in a aduld chat room 20 hours a week, people talk about sex, drug and other things but its good for kids to know all about it and know how people think about it before they are at the age of trying it all.
Reply #63 from JoeUser Forums Top
got a 12 year old son that plays WoW 4 hours every day, He is somewhat addicted but he eats, sleeps and does his homework without a adult havig to say it. Kids that have been monitord their whole life should not been given such a freedom becouse they never learnd how to use it correctly. And yes i whould let my 12 year old in a aduld chat room 20 hours a week, people talk about sex, drug and other things but its good for kids to know all about it and know how people think about it before they are at the age of trying it all.


Uh-yeah. Good luck with that.
Reply #64 from Stardock Forums Top
People go nuts when they are given the opportunity to seem more liberated than others who risk seeming overly conservative. I think it is cute how people are projecting their "Jack Thompson" rage on greywar who is basically saying the same thing I have heard MMORPG players say for years.

I differ a bit with greywar, but turning him into something he isn't won't make your argument any more effective. People ought to reread this and stop trying to make it into something it isn't. I'd also add that anyone who is trying to pretend that the social aspects of these games doesn't include sex simply hasn't played them long enough or attentively enough to know.

I played a barbarian FEMALE shaman on Everquest all the way to 65th level, and lemme tell you, it opens your eyes to what the other half have to put up with...


you have a good point but the main flaw of your arguement is that you proceed to throw ever quest into the conversation when world of warcraft has nothing to do with EQ. yes they are both MMOPRG's but that doesnt mean there exactly the same. ive played as female night elves on WoW and wasnt treated any differently then when i played as a male taurin. as for general chat yes the language can be bad at times but theres a filter in the interface options which can solve that problem pretty quick. ive played WoW constintly and the only awkward conversation i ever remember is when a group of people started making jokes about the cookie monster and no they werent vulgar in any way.

there really is nothing wrong with WoW or any game for that matter its how your child perceives the content. if a kid can look at GTA and see blood and gore and violence and know thats fake and you shouldnt do that in real life then by all means let em play GTA.

what people need to realise is the gameing industry is growing larger every day and as it grows larger it need to accomidate more customers then children so of course not every game is going to be ok for kids its the same with movies, you wouldnt let a 6 year old go see Saw 3 why would you let them buy GTA 3?

Reply #65 from JoeUser Forums Top
"You had a nice insult free life going on until you decided to read my blog. Fuck off... smacktard."
"Oh I am pretty sure you have it all figured out yourself there fucktardo."

For a guy supposedly so concerned with childrens welfare on the net you sure do go out of your way to fill it full of obscenity and generally distasteful displays of individual interaction. Maybe you might want to alter the decency rating on this article to help these children you're so concerned about avoid these displays of such disgusting and vulgar communication patterns.

Just how disingeneous do you intend to be?
Reply #66 from JoeUser Forums Top
For the record: Anonymous users really do not have the right to start arguments or run threads. Get signed up!
Good article greywar.
Reply #67 from JoeUser Forums Top
Maybe you might want to alter the decency rating on this article to help these children you're so concerned about avoid these displays of such disgusting and vulgar communication patte


Nope, either parents monitor their kids or they see some words like "fuck". thats the actual point of the article BTW.
Reply #68 from JoeUser Forums Top

So depressing watching WoW addicts dogmatically defend the game, that's a sure sign of addiction.  I love warcraft, but WoW (a game designed to make money, not ensure entertainment or quality) is not only a bad idea for kids it's a bad idea for adults as well.  IT'S A DIGITAL WORLD!  How often do you hear that someone important like a politician or somone rich like Donald Trump is playing WoW?  You are correct, YOU NEVER HEAR ABOUT IMPORTANT OR RICH PEOPLE PLAYING ANY MMORPGS because they have more productive/important things to do... 

 

Not only has Blizzard intentionally made use of the auto-addict Pavlovian system, but Blizzard has also made use of mass-propaganda to lure gullible individuals into wasting their lives away playing this game or any other overly repetitive/time consuming mmorpg.  I'm sorry, but WoW sucks even as a game.  It's not entertaining or relaxing, saying that it is such only ensures your denial of addiction.  Also the Blizzard propaganda is full of lies...the WoW player base is far from being 10 million, any person who chooses to use their brain can figure this out easily. 

This article is unfortunately 100% correct.  I applaud the author for restraining his completely logical evaluation of the game, for the game is much greater than a bad idea it's a tool used to preoccupy the people as if they were cattle.  This has always been the purpose of theater or entertainment, to indoctrinate or preoccupy the people so that the leaders and the rich could maintain control and power.  The greatest philosophical minds in history, most notably the great Greek philosophers, knew this to be true.  Entertainment was originally an innocent act to maintain a persons sanity, but like religion it has been severely corrupted over-time.  I wish that it were mandatory for every person in the world to receive an education in Psychology because with this knowledge there would be no such thing as mmorpgs - it would be considered a waste of time.  In a saner world everyone would be researching ways to cure cancer or solve the world hunger problem, but to gamers real life is too painful (or as an excuse "boring") to devote 100% of your attention to it.  Gaming does not actually relieve stress either...because nobody likes to lose and in a game somebody has to lose.

There's no other way to say it, as a single man I cannot force everyone to listen to the voice of reason which tells them that gaming is a waste of time if it is done for more than 3 hours a day and that the people in power or with wealth use entertainment in order to control others that way these individuals can maintain their own wealth and power.

Reply #69 from Stardock Forums Top

Quote Blacklist, that is far from the point of this article.

Btw stop trolling this article's comment section and go back to being a WoW addict, you tool.