Agreed.  Though one of the best parts of Star Control II was hunting down multiple unique items to make devices work, or have multiple uses for "loot" found.

Unique, one-of-a-kind items mixed with lore and background story = WIN

+1 bonus point "misc tech upgrades" = Fail

The only ships I ever used were the earthling cruiser in the Ilwrath fight, the Chmmr against whatever I didn't want to face with the main ship, and the Pkunk against the Sa-Matra.

-What if there were races that were enemies, and that had evolved their ships to hurt the other race's baaaaad?

-What if some races would bring engineering bonuses, thus unlocking specific kinds of upgrades?

But wasn`t the beauty of SC2 in its relative simplicity - like you buy better-then even better-then a bad ass gun, your fuel tank stores more and more fuel, straightforward and understandable. All these upgrades to individual ships, like +1 shield + 2 attach and etc. might make the game overcomplicated. As already mentioned above "+1 bonus point "misc tech upgrades" = Fail"

I like the idea of MAJOR upgrades.

One thing I didn't like too much about Galactic Civilization II is that you had lasers, then lasers II, III, IV, V, VI, VII....I mean, come on.  I want lasers, then HELLBORE canon, then SUPER GRAVITY MELT-YOUR-FACE Quantum Gun, then WTF-did-I-just-ruin-space-time-by-firing-this-thing-Blaster.

Assuming there will be the same degree of if not more customization of your command ship, how about being able to load out various sizes of ship bays, exchanging module space for fleet capacity?  Late in the game in SC2, because it was so OP, I only ever used the command ship in battle and loaded out a fleet of the largest crew capacity ship types as storage for extra crew (extra life) for the command ship.  Give players the choice to play with a battleship vs a carrier, or anywhere in between.

I would actually like it if the main ship never became so powerful that you always used it.  When I played the original I intentionally avoided using the main ship because it was so powerful.  One of my favorite aspects of the adventure game in SC2 was the nemesis (rock, paper, scissors) balance that had you carrying a good mix of ships to use the right one against the right opponent... and losing a ship meant having a hard time against certain enemies until you replaced it.  That was one of the things that made SC2 so great in my mind.  Most people seem to have used the main ship and didn't play it this way, but if you didn't use the main ship I really thought that was a much better experience.  The main ship could be balanced the same way, where it is good against some ships and not others so that the player only uses against the enemies it is good at fighting.

But then, I am a 1% hardcore gamer which makes me about the last person that should be listened too when it comes to difficulty level in games.  My taste in that area often results in a level of difficultly that frustrates casual gamers.  Having a superpowerful main ship does give the player the option to use it to make the game easier, or avoid using as I did in the original game to make it harder.  Maybe that actually is still the best way to go.

That makes a lot of sense...

Part of this discussion is nostalgic for me, as I'm sure like everyone else here, I was deeply into ST:TNG at the time, so SC was almost another way to engage with that universe.  I'm ok with the potential that your command ship becoming super powerful with advanced technology as that was a recurring theme in ST:TNG and is realistic and makes sense.  But I also think this should go both ways, that some aliens and enemies are just too powerful to defeat until you have some level of technology/alien alliance to face them.

The devs already mentioned that there would be an explorer/"armchair admiral" mode that let's you watch rather than do combat. Maybe they'll have some other modes too - one of which predisposes the player to use his fleet ships rather than primary ship.

In my SC2 playthrough I have never used the flagship (with an exception of Sa-Matra battle for obvious reasons). I could kill anything with Utwig Jugger . My flagship was - fuelbays, cargobays, and crew quarters :)  100% long term exploration

I'm torn now. I never used other race's ships, but I remember being SO proud once my flagship was awesome enough to destroy entire fleets. I don't want to lose that sense of accomplishment! But I also don't want to invalidate the entire recruitment part of the game... It's tough! 

I even used Spathi ships as extra "crew quarters" but once you get Utwig ships - nothing can stop you. Cuorebrave - no need to be torn, just another playstile i prefer exploration to combat, hence my fittings . 20 years ago or so I even decided to visit every star system in SC2 to find a planet where i would have settled for life had i been a real space explorer (not sure i used the right grammar here but you get the point).

There probably should be some mechanic where some technologies/weapons that are solely available on fleet ships are more effective against specific foes, ie some races are predisposed towards killing others, and those technologies/weapons cannot be obtained/used in any other way other from your fleet ships.  So while you command ship could potentially be very powerful and versatile, it could never be as effective as other ships in various circumstances.

We want to be careful though, scaling enemies eventually become another chore. Depth without making upgrades obsolete is important.

Tbh, enemies should scale but by a certain level, I would love the galaxy to "evolve" cultures expand, technology improves for the user so why cant the enemy ? But I would like a bit more depth than just enemy scaling.

You guys may be thinking in terms of more modern games with all the thoughts of lots of upgrades and technologies.  This is a very simple arcade game.  There is another thread here, or maybe it is this one, where many of us expressed a desire to not see small incremental improvements in the ships.  A 10% increase to weapon damage, for example, is not really appropriate to this type of game.  Upgrades should be visually and tactically noticeable (i.e. make the weapon/device do something fundamentally different than it did before).  So scaling enemies shouldn't be necessary because there won't be that many updrades, not like a "tech tree game".

Say you have a ship with 1 weapon and 1 device, a gun and mine to be simple.  An upgrade of the gun might give it multifire, and now if fires two bullets per shot.  Another upgrade might give it 3... or, stay at 2 but add some new effect on top of the damage like energy drain or a chance to kill a crew member.  You might upgrade the mine add a gravitic effect, or an EMP effect, to the damage it already does.  But when dealing with upgrades like these, you won't have nearly as many of them as you would find in a tech tree game... but the updrades that do exist have a much more dramatic effect.

This is easily balanced in the adventure game by giving the AI ships their equivalent upgrades as the player gets them.  I guess this is "scaling enemies", in a way, but in a different way because the characteristics of the ships aren't being upgraded.  I haven't seen the game yet, maybe it is more complex than I am expecting and their are stats for the ships like HP, and speed, and maneuverability... but I suspect the "stats" for the ships are more "iconic" like just having energy and crew.  Personally, I would rather see it be more simple with just a few "iconic stats", and not see a list of ratings for hit points, speed, acceleration, maneuverability, and stuff like that.

Simplicity

I too want to see the game be very simple, yet have some depth to it.  Think Rebel Galaxy vs. Elite Dangerous.  I like in Rebel Galaxy / SC2 how super-easy it is to just upgrade and try very different setups.  In Elite there are classes, levels, and other non-sense that I just don't want to figure out.  I want to shoot stuff in SC2, not spend hours in my EVE hanger spinning ships.

Loadout & Fleet Idea

Something that I thought up while reading everyone's comments.  At one point in SC2, you just use your super-ship and never touch your fleet.  There may be the one match-up where it made sense to use a fleet ship, but that was rare.  I think a rock-paper-scissors design for fleet engagements will get old very fast.  However, at the same time don't want to see them try to balance each ship.

What if certain upgrade modules for your main ship REQUIRED or gave BONUSES if you had certain ships in your fleet?  With certain ships in your fleet you gain a bit of their technology for your main ship.  Examples:

1. You can fit the Arilou Lalee'lay hyper-jump module, and you get a X% cool down reduction per Skiff in your fleet.
2. You can fit the Ilwrath cloaking module, and you get a X% bonus to duration per Avenger in your fleet.
3. You can have a Chmmr ZapSat for every Avatar in your fleet.

I hope you get the idea.  

Your main ship will be the embodiment of races working together and you can gain their tech through quests / diplomacy.  I think this will be great because it ties the combat player experience to the diplomatic decisions.  "If I make friends with the Ilwrath so I can get their cloaking tech?  I need to keep them happy because I like my +300% cloaking duration on my main ship."  I think a system like this gives your load outs more depth and keeps it simple.

Honestly, we're over thinking this now. I think, no matter what, we should use Star Cobtrol II as our model. When in doubt, just go with the original! Because now we're talking power ups and enemy scaling and multiple versions of each ship, and upgradeable alien race weapons and so many other things. 

What worked in Star Control II? That's the question. 

This is not strictly true, I think. Stardock has already explained they are not trying to create StarControl HD - that's also another way of saying that they do not just want to capture the (relatively small) audience that already is in love with the game. They are trying to create a whole new franchise based on the StarControl property. Admittedly that can be achieved in many ways, but it also means that slavishly adhering to the old model can cut into possibilities.

Just as an example: even if the original game model was employed as before (with relatively static ships and abilities), the whole game is fundamentally altered by only extending combat to multiple ships (for example 3v3 instead of 1v1). I think this would be a welcome addition to the game; particularly by an audience that did not grow up with the original games but are used to multiplayer action games.

I tend to agree. SC2 turned out to be great so when making decision one should at least look at how it fits with similar ideas and their implementation in SC2 (including those that did not work). Anyways, opinions may change as we simply do not know much/enough about SCR at the moment.

This is what I was saying, well done. I don't mean make a carbon-copy of Star Control II - I mean, on certain points of contention, emulating the beloved parent of this Star Control reboot couldn't possibly be a bad idea.

It's the slippery slope that makes me groan whenever I hear about every new addition to Star Citizen. Oh, now we get to actually physically walk around our ships..... and then land them on any planet.... and walk around on the ground... and pull out our gun and engage in first-person-shooter combat? Really? Come on now, that's just too much. So many additions suggested here, while incredible and worthwhile and seemingly VERY fun, may not be the right fit for a STAR CONTROL reboot. I'm not pretending to know which would fit and which would not.

Same thing happened with the latest Fallout. Fallout 4 added this whole, entire base-building and maintenance to the game, as well as an insanely detailed crafting mechanic. And while base-building and crafting is all the rage these days, I can't help but feel that having to worry about my settlers and their happiness, constantly catering to their needs and protecting them from attackes deflates my enjoyment of the whole Lone Wanderer of the Wasteland thing...

And constructing a new weapon out of coffee mugs and antique globes that's better than the one I just pulled out of the cold dead fingers of a supermutant is just... anti-climactic. Not that either is particularly BAD, but for me it just seems to... not be the right FIT for a Fallout game.

I'm just saying, taking our cue from Star Control II should be the first step. It was, after all, the pinnacle of many of our gaming lives.

The base building and crafting things mechanics were based ENTIRELY on the most popular mods for New Vegas and Fallout 3, which is probably one of the most touching love letters from Bethesda you can get right now. (Also, those elements are entirely optional )

But that's not the point. The point is that we want this STAR CONTROL game to feel like Star Control, right? Well then, sure. There's lots of little things that we expect, like beautiful, quirky aliens that feel alive and original. We expect a compelling story and world built in such a way that we don't want to leave. We expect combat to feel arcadey, but deep. Combat should still feel serious in terms of skill, but fun and whimsical in terms of flavor.

But we can't forget Sid Meier's Rule of Thirds. What this states is that there's 3 parts of every game you make (and this is usually in regards to sequels, reboots, and expansions). 1. Core elements: these are what make your game what it is; without these, it would be an entirely different game. 2. Improved Elements: these are existing elements of the game that weren't as polished or fun as they were intended to be, and these should be fixed. 3. New Elements: these are exciting, cool things that you add to a game to keep it fresh and take it in a new direction without altering the fundamental gameplay as to be unrecognizable. 4. A-HA! Tricked you! The secret FOURTH element is CUT ELEMENTS: These things did not do much to enhance the player's experience, or may have gone so far as to be detrimental to the game as a whole. These should be dealt with. Severely. They should also be forgotten. Severely.

EDIT: That being said, the new fleet system should feel familiar, but better. I personally like the diablo-inventory style, but I won't be that disappointed if it doesn't show up.

Bahah - I literally laughed out loud a bit here! So, you're *obviously* referring to pretty much every single thing that was added with Star Control III... LOL. Useless, ugly colony-system. Ugly "upgraded" alien portraits. Stupid, boring new spaceships. Weird 3d view. I can't even talk about it anymore.

The slippery slope in that case would be to try and emulate StarControl - I mean that is a game that is an action-adventure-space-opera-RPG with puzzle elements. It does a little bit of everything. I think what made StarControl 2 great was the utter dedication to what is fun while also conforming to the limits of what could be done at the time (and within the budget available to the team).

If Stardock made a faithful "StarControl II 2" - in spite of how enjoyable that would be to me - I do not think it would capture the imagination of the modern audience in general. Now I do think that for the adventure, the story-telling part of the game, taking cues from the original is well advised. But for the action part... more than two decades of gaming development have happened - I think it would be foolish to dismiss that in favor of tradition.

We've actually come full-circle. When I introduced UQM to some of my co-workers, they were impressed by the retro graphics and stellar SuperMelee gameplay. This type of game hasn't been run into the ground yet.

Hello all.

Having enemies level up as you do defeats the purpose of obtaining stronger weapons.

Encountering different stronger enemies that means you need stronger weapons and defense is perfectly acceptable and logical in any game and so it was for SCII. If we take an example from an RPG I wouldn't want the rat I find in the tutorial level gaining levels as I do. What is the point of me getting to level 100 if the rat in the tutorial level also becomes level 100 at the same time I do?

Maybe the whole universe could be slowly leveling up. So by the time I get close to the end of the game the rat could have leveled up to 10 and so backtracking would be another challenge as the monsters would have leveled up. And by the time I backtrack to the rat it would be level 100 while I am level 150.

Multiple ships for races

Not all but most races should have at least 2 ships. A defense ship and an attack ship. Races like the Shofixti and the Thraddash only need one ship because that is their creed. (Although the Shofixti with their suicidal nature could have an extra ship that can be used as a battering ram instead of autodestruct.)

- The Spathi would most likely have the most number of different ships. One that farts homing torpedoes, another could fart corrosive "ink" clouds. One that cloaks. One that is like the Thraddash in that it is has super boosters (much faster than the Thraddash but does not make damage). It all fits with their cowardly nature and character of running away and so having many different kinds of ships to confuse the enemy also fits their profile.

- The Arilou race could have a defense ship that instead of random teleportation could have a tractor beam that can be used to capture enemy ships and perhaps crash them into planets or asteroids. With their inertia-less spaceships it would be easy to capture a ship and then fly straight to a planet and then release the hold and see the ship crash.

- The Syreen could have an attack ship that instead of using the Syreen voice to lure crew they would launch amazonian warriors that infiltrate an enemy ship and would change the crew from inside and so able to capture the ship by turning all crew members.

- The Zot-Fot-Piq are comprised of 3 life forms so I would not be surprised it they had 3 classes of ship, the Zot, the Fot, and the Piq.

It is possible for all races to have at least one other ship that fits their race profile. 

All powerful main ship

- I see no problem with this. If it is too powerful then don't use it.

- I think the main point of this was so that you had the freedom to fight with other ships. At least you know that you had an ace up your sleeve and you could always rely on the main ship.

Upgrades

- Ditto +1 upgrades to stats is stupid. I don't want this turning into a math game were people are calculating DPS and shit like that. When that happens then the end result is that everyone figures out the best payload, layout, and ship to use, and only those ships and payload, and layout, are used.  I already own enough of those games.

- Unlocking abilities or new types of ships is much better as upgrades. Or at least having getting the option to change a payload from say gatling laser to phasers.