Thinking of cancelling my pre-order

I still love GalCiv though!

from GalCiv3 Forums

As we get closer to the alpha of GalCiv3, one thought haunts my brain; "no, this is not the way."

First of all let me clarify where I come from. I am thirty years of age and can be considered an old-school gamer. My first "gaming rig" was an Atari 2600. The black plastic one from 1984, also known as the 2600 Junior. After that I got a Super Nintendo Entertainment System. I still remember the smell when I opened the box for the first time and playing Super Mario World for the first time. It's my fondest childhood memory and probably the reason I like physical media so much.

I got my first PC at the end of 1995. It had Windows 95 and a I got a bunch of games for both DOS and Windows. For those of you who don't know; this was the time period where the first 3D accelerators appeared and DirectX was on it's first iteration; it was not the massive beast we know today. My fondest memories of those times were coming home with a new game and opening the box. Believe it or not but most games had printed manuals, some even in colour! There is something about having the box displayed on a shelf, as if it's saying; "Look at me! My owner bought me and is proud of it!"

And that's where that haunting thought comes in. Though I don't have anything against digital distribution, it just doesn't feel right to not have a box standing on the shelf. Something you can hold in your hands and be happy about, thinking; "Yeah, I bought this. It was a good decision.". But that's not the only thing about GalCiv 3's digital distribution that bothers me. From what I've read, you need internet and Steam and that is the most bothersome.

What if I want to play it on a computer without internet and Steam? What if I don't have it installed and lose my internet connection (money problems, moving to Pluto or somewhere else without internet access) ? How will I be able to install the game then?

This troubles me to the extend that I am seriously thinking of trying to cancel my pre-order (if still possible).

(It is also stuff like this that drives me to download an unauthorized copy of a game. Because those, you can install on any computer without internet or Steam.)

I understand it's probably too expensive for Stardock to have physical media but is there any chance we will be able to download the game, burn it on a disc and install it on a computer without an internet connection and Steam? That would make me feel a whole lot more comfortable.

164,705 views 174 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

You argue wanting to have the option to play in case you happen to lack having an internet connection and then also say that things like requiring an internet connection drives you to download a pirated copy.  Tell me, how do you pirate the game without an internet connection?  And how does pirating a game help satisfy your need for a physical copy?

Sorry man, but that's a pretty weak argument to me to justify stealing the work of others.  

I also think that this is the way the model for games is shifting.  It's probably not going to change. If anything, it's going to continue to grow in this trend at a large rate.

And I believe that Steam does indeed have an option for offline play.

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Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

First off they have come on and stated several times you will not need to be online to play the game...

You will need Steam, yes, however, once you install the game through steam, you are able to launch stream offline and play the game whenever you want, weather you live in Pluto or Alpha Centari.

I would love a "hard copy" of the game as I'm right along with you, but I'm not going to miss out on Galactic Civilizations III either.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top


I understand it's probably too expensive for Stardock to have physical media but is there any chance we will be able to download the game, burn it on a disc and install it on a computer without an internet connection and Steam? That would make me feel a whole lot more comfortable.

 

Oh, I'm sure someone makes an unofficial crack sooner or later. Personally I don't care, I have multiple net accounts (mobile) and the Hell must freeze before I give up internet connection completely away. I'm just happy I don't have to wait for middle organizations to import those boxes to this god forsaken country any more. 

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top


And that's where that haunting thought comes in. Though I don't have anything against digital distribution, it just doesn't feel right to not have a box standing on the shelf. Something you can hold in your hands and be happy about, thinking; "Yeah, I bought this. It was a good decision.". But that's not the only thing about GalCiv 3's digital distribution that bothers me.

Virtually no PC game is released in boxes anymore. Only the biggest games get a box release (like Blizzard stuff0. For everyone else it's simply not worth it financially.

If you can't adapt to that, you will be playing very few games going forward.

From what I've read, you need internet and Steam and that is the most bothersome.

Yep, that's been said since it was first announced.

What if I want to play it on a computer without internet and Steam?

You can't play it on a computer without Steam. You can play it without Internet assuming it's been online before, by using offline mode. Course in that case the AI won't have access to the player ship library (assuming it didn't cache it from previously being online, of course, and I'd presume it will.)

What if I don't have it installed and lose my internet connection (money problems, moving to Pluto or somewhere else without internet access) ? How will I be able to install the game then?

Nope.

Now if you just have really lousy Internet, yes. Copy the installed game folder to a DVD or something as a backup, then restore it on the computer with lousy Internet. Instead of downloading the game, it'll just verify and activate the install. Then it's good to go.

This troubles me to the extend that I am seriously thinking of trying to cancel my pre-order (if still possible).

Email [email protected]. They can do it.



I understand it's probably too expensive for Stardock to have physical media but is there any chance we will be able to download the game, burn it on a disc and install it on a computer without an internet connection and Steam? That would make me feel a whole lot more comfortable.

The game uses Steamworks. To do that, they'd have to make a special non-Steamworks version of the game just for that purpose, which probably also isn't worth it financially. Said version would also not have the multiplayer or anything else that is provided through Steamworks.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

What if I want to play it on a computer without internet and Steam? What if I don't have it installed and lose my internet connection (money problems, moving to Pluto or somewhere else without internet access) ? How will I be able to install the game then?

Then you are not a true gamer and don't deserve the right to play the game you paid for. Trust the suits, they know what you really want!!! (like always online Sim City!)

;P

I must say that I love not have to worry about the box. I have no room for more. Game boxes, board/card game ones and books already have land feuds in my house!

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

And that's where that haunting thought comes in. Though I don't have anything against digital distribution, it just doesn't feel right to not have a box standing on the shelf. Something you can hold in your hands and be happy about, thinking; "Yeah, I bought this. It was a good decision.". But that's not the only thing about GalCiv 3's digital distribution that bothers me. From what I've read, you need internet and Steam and that is the most bothersome.

You need to download the game to install it, you don't have to always be online to play. Steam has an offline mode.

What if I want to play it on a computer without internet and Steam? What if I don't have it installed and lose my internet connection (money problems, moving to Pluto or somewhere else without internet access) ? How will I be able to install the game then?

No Internet, no download game, no play game. Keep it installed and Steam in offline mode. Problem solved.

This troubles me to the extend that I am seriously thinking of trying to cancel my pre-order (if still possible).

To cancel a preorder talk to support.

(It is also stuff like this that drives me to download an unauthorized copy of a game. Because those, you can install on any computer without internet or Steam.)

So you are worried about not having Internet to download and play a game, but you are not worried about not having Internet to pirate a game.  

I understand it's probably too expensive for Stardock to have physical media but is there any chance we will be able to download the game, burn it on a disc and install it on a computer without an internet connection and Steam? That would make me feel a whole lot more comfortable.

It's more than just retail being more expensive, Steam also offers tools to developers for multiplayer, updates and other things. They would have to develop a non-Steamworks version, which if I remember right would cost them an extra 20 million dollars.

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Cancelling your order because of Steam is ridiculous.  Do you only use physical media in all other aspects of your life?  Do you always buy plastic cd's, no music downloads?  Do you only read paper books?  Nothing on an ereader or online?  Do you not download apps on your phone?  Physical media is almost dead.  What a silly reason to not support Stardock and get a great game.

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

This is a pretty trifling issue to cancel a pre-order over, don't you think? I won't rehash what the others have said, but I'll say it plain; basically everything in the future will be based off of digital download, as physical copies are simply not versatile or cheap enough to compete. If you cancel now, you'll be setting a precedent that will prevent you from enjoying things in the future (with a clear conscious) 

Just my 2 cents.

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting ParagonRenegade, reply 8

This is a pretty trifling issue to cancel a pre-order over, don't you think? I won't rehash what the others have said, but I'll say it plain; basically everything in the future will be based off of digital download, as physical copies are simply not versatile or cheap enough to compete. If you cancel now, you'll be setting a precedent that will prevent you from enjoying things in the future (with a clear conscious) 

Just my 2 cents.

It's really about revenue per copy sold. Brad gave the numbers in another thread, but in a nutshell they make over double (IIRC nearly triple) the amount of money per digital copy than retail copy, if you buy at the same price.

It's so lopsided that retail versions just don't make sense. And that's if they actually sell. If the boxes don't sell well and you get to take them back, you're on the hook for fees on top of that.

Retail tends to suck unless you're going to be selling several hundred thousand units in the launch window.

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting SirKs, reply 1

You argue wanting to have the option to play in case you happen to lack having an internet connection and then also say that things like requiring an internet connection drives you to download a pirated copy.  Tell me, how do you pirate the game without an internet connection?  And how does pirating a game help satisfy your need for a physical copy?

Sorry man, but that's a pretty weak argument to me to justify stealing the work of others.  

I also think that this is the way the model for games is shifting.  It's probably not going to change. If anything, it's going to continue to grow in this trend at a large rate.

And I believe that Steam does indeed have an option for offline play.

I could have phrased the pirating thing better. I meant; you can download that, put it on a cd or dvd and then install it on any computer without an internet connection or steam as opposed to games that require steam.

Pirating takes away my need for a physical copy because it means I haven't spent money on it. When I spend money on something I want to be able to show it without having to start up my computer.

I know it's all going to digital distribution. As I explained, I'm an old-school gamer, I grew up with physical media and boxes.

 

Quoting Tridus, reply 4
If you can't adapt to that, you will be playing very few games going forward.

 

That's why I still play older games often.

 

Quoting charon2112, reply 7

Cancelling your order because of Steam is ridiculous.  Do you only use physical media in all other aspects of your life?  Do you always buy plastic cd's, no music downloads?  Do you only read paper books?  Nothing on an ereader or online?  Do you not download apps on your phone?  Physical media is almost dead.


Read my post again, I'm considering cancelling because of there not being a physical version, not because of Steam.
Do I always buy plastic cd's? Yes, when I buy music, I buy a cd. Otherwise I download, which is legal in the Netherlands. I don't read books and I don't have a smartphone because I rarely make phonecalls.

 

Quoting ParagonRenegade, reply 8

This is a pretty trifling issue to cancel a pre-order over, don't you think? I won't rehash what the others have said, but I'll say it plain; basically everything in the future will be based off of digital download, as physical copies are simply not versatile or cheap enough to compete. If you cancel now, you'll be setting a precedent that will prevent you from enjoying things in the future (with a clear conscious)

Just my 2 cents.


It's not a silly reason or trifling issue. It's a feeling I have based on the experiences I've had as a kid. And it's a feeling that bugs me, so I wrote about it to get some feedback.

There are plenty of older games (released on physical media) that I haven't played (yet) so it's not like I wouldn't have any games (that would be new for me) to play.

Reply #11 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Retail copies require shelf space for a retail store to sell. They charge premium and they can refuse to sell the game for any reason. Many retails stores refused to shelf games just because it was projected to not sell that well. There facts weren't always correct. You would basically have the same games on the shelf as they have right now, FPS, SIMS, and Blizzard games. PC games have been mostly sold through digital games for sometime now. Not only has it made things more convenient, I live in MN tomorrow is going to be -25 F below wind chill. If I decided suddenly I wanted a new game I would have to fight through crap roads and freezing conditions to get it. Also, it would take 30 minutes, I would get carded even though I'm 30 years old, and considering I have a high speed connection it won't save me THAT much time to re-install it. Also I wouldn't have to change CDs mid install. 

Also back in the day you needed the internet to download the latest patches. Sure you could play the unpatched game forever but you are missing on free fixes and content updates. Compare GalCiv2 DL patched and unpatched. It is a night and day difference. 

You also need to make sure your physical medium is stored in a safe spot. If you have a house fire you are out of luck. You will have to buy the game all over again. Also even in optimal conditions the disk can stop reading or the drive for that matter. Oh and don't forget the copy protection. The DRM argument that people make on Steam is funny. http://www.frictionlessinsight.com/archives/2008/04/starflight-when.html, that is DRM. 

I can understand having a sweet box and instruction book. Remember Civ 4 and the spiral bound manual. But that day is going to be gone soon. Also if you want  you can always backup your game on a thumb drive, dvd, or a separate partion on your computer. Also you can backup through Steam. 

While I agree there are a number of bad examples of digital distribution such as EA and Microsoft, Steam is much better. 

Reply #12 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 5
Then you are not a true gamer and don't deserve the right to play the game you paid for. Trust the suits, they know what you really want!!! (like always online Sim City!)

Always online is not what the "real gamer" wants...  I purchased SimCity giving EA/Maxis it's chance, even paid the extra to get the Deluxe version.  Upon release it wasn't available the first week except for off hours as servers were maxed, they have poor maintance windows in the middle of the day US, which is when I'm home so I couldn't play it. 

That's just the always online feature failing me, can't play when I want to play.  This is vastly in part why I haven't purchased any expansions or DLC's for that game and haven't played it in months. 

Now there are other aspects to the game that just were or still are broken that have also drove me away, but the always online and not being available is what made me turn back to older games to occupy my time because I couldn't play when wanted.

I will never again purchase an "always online game" unless there is no choice as they all go that way.

Reply #13 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Illauna, reply 11
Also back in the day you needed the internet to download the latest patches.

Really? Here in the Netherlands we had gaming magazines that came with cd's (and later dvd's) that usually had patches for games on them, amongst other things.

 

@Seilore; I think Wintersong was being sarcastic, note the smiley in his post ;)

Reply #14 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting NitroX, reply 13


Quoting Illauna, reply 11Also back in the day you needed the internet to download the latest patches.

Really? Here in the Netherlands we had gaming magazines that came with cd's (and later dvd's) that usually had patches for games on them, amongst other things.

 

@Seilore; I think Wintersong was being sarcastic, note the smiley in his post

Lol forgot about the magazines.

Reply #15 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting NitroX, reply 13
@Seilore; I think Wintersong was being sarcastic, note the smiley in his post

most likely, or at least I hope so. 

Reply #16 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting NitroX, reply 10

It's not a silly reason or trifling issue. It's a feeling I have based on the experiences I've had as a kid. And it's a feeling that bugs me, so I wrote about it to get some feedback.

There are plenty of older games (released on physical media) that I haven't played (yet) so it's not like I wouldn't have any games (that would be new for me) to play.

 

I never intended to insult your personal preferences, I apologize. That being said, I'm addressing the practical concerns here; As much of a nostalgia junkie as I am, I can't understand this.

Ocarina of Time, Super Smash Brothers, Star Fox and whatever else are all great games, but they are still in finite supply; nobody is making 'old games' anymore by definition. Over time, newer games distributed electronically will come to dominate the older physical games by a wide margin, and in fact the number of games available virtually is much greater than than physical games right now, with older games being translated to an online downloadable format. You must know the good ride can't last forever without expanding your horizons, you risk becoming a "Gaming Luddite" if you're not careful.

This is of course ignoring that newer games do many things vastly better than older games, such as; their soundtracks, writing, graphics, voice acting, sound effects and complexity. Granted, certain games that shall not be named (*Cough*CoD*Cough*) are promoting the homogenization of the industry, but there are still many franchises that have a great deal of ingenuity and creativity, like LittleBig Planet, Mass Effect, Planetside and Team Fortress. There's a lot of good to be found in modern games in my opinion.

I hope that you can find a happy balance between nostalgia/personal preference and functionality :3

Reply #17 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Seilore, reply 12


Quoting Wintersong, reply 5Then you are not a true gamer and don't deserve the right to play the game you paid for. Trust the suits, they know what you really want!!! (like always online Sim City!)

Always online is not what the "real gamer" wants...  I purchased SimCity giving EA/Maxis it's chance, even paid the extra to get the Deluxe version.  Upon release it wasn't available the first week except for off hours as servers were maxed, they have poor maintance windows in the middle of the day US, which is when I'm home so I couldn't play it. 

That's just the always online feature failing me, can't play when I want to play.  This is vastly in part why I haven't purchased any expansions or DLC's for that game and haven't played it in months. 

Now there are other aspects to the game that just were or still are broken that have also drove me away, but the always online and not being available is what made me turn back to older games to occupy my time because I couldn't play when wanted.

I will never again purchase an "always online game" unless there is no choice as they all go that way.

EA actually announced they considering an offline patch for SimCity, finally. What amazes me is Ubisoft, well Blue Byte, of all people was able to design a system where the user was encouraged to be online but not required. Try Anno 2070 and then think of what Sim City would have been like designed the same way. You are really missing content if you are offline in Anno. 

Reply #18 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Illauna, reply 17
EA actually announced they considering an offline patch for SimCity, finally.

Haven't seen that but, I admit I haven't paid much attention to it either.

Reply #19 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Dude, I was born in 1993. I'm 20 years old and am happy that the word is advancing. If you can't keep up with the times, stay where you are at and I will kindly leave you behind. This new world is the world of my generation. We are connected to each other and the internet is what connects us all. Read what everyone else has said........now on to what i have to say. We have many many places that offer free internet. Get you a laptop and go to your local public library, go to Starbucks, McDonalds or whatever and sit there and download away. They have no caps and they don't charge you. i'm sure you have a neighbor who's an idiot and doesn't lock their wifi....steal it. You honestly have no excuse for not being able to connect to the internet. The grocery store up the street from my house has free wifi! You ave no reason to pirate. PIRATES ARE BAD!

Reply #20 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Are there still large boxed games at all, or only the DVD cased ones? I still have the box of my first legal game, Imperium Galactica 1, even the poster that came with it. But not with me. A few movings (and sometimes being able to only afford really small flat) caused me to favor the content instead of display.

If having the box or case on display is of significant priority for you then yes, preordering GC 3 might have been a mistake on your side - I think it was not hidden it will come with Steam, and was a reason I hesitated quite a lot. I hope Stardock will help you to reset the situation.

Just one thing. If at one day your buddy, who is an elite founder, invites you to show GC 3, please allow him to start up the computer and the game and make a nod to the star or planet he named no matter how insignificant it will look to the rest of the map.

Reply #21 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I think what the others said covers almost everything. The one issue left is: Even though I'd like a physical copy as well, I'd rather have Galciv3 on Steam rather than no Galciv3 at all....

Reply #22 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Hey guys!1  What if I don't have a computer?  How am I supposed to play then?  If stardock doesn't make a board game version of the game, then I'm canceling my preorder

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Reply #23 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting ParagonRenegade, reply 16
This is of course ignoring that newer games do many things vastly better than older games, such as; their soundtracks, writing, graphics, voice acting, sound effects and complexity.

That is simply not true. There are many older games that still outshine most newer games.

 

Quoting Cleveland2k, reply 19

Dude, I was born in 1993. I'm 20 years old and am happy that the word is advancing. If you can't keep up with the times, stay where you are at and I will kindly leave you behind. This new world is the world of my generation. We are connected to each other and the internet is what connects us all. Read what everyone else has said........now on to what i have to say. We have many many places that offer free internet. Get you a laptop and go to your local public library, go to Starbucks, McDonalds or whatever and sit there and download away. They have no caps and they don't charge you. i'm sure you have a neighbor who's an idiot and doesn't lock their wifi....steal it. You honestly have no excuse for not being able to connect to the internet. The grocery store up the street from my house has free wifi! You ave no reason to pirate. PIRATES ARE BAD!

I'd like to see you get Wifi in the Amazonian jungle or the Sahara desert ;)

No reason to pirate? One of the reasons I sometimes pirate is because there is no demo of the game and I want to try it before I buy it.

Reply #24 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Seilore, reply 18


Quoting Illauna, reply 17EA actually announced they considering an offline patch for SimCity, finally.

Haven't seen that but, I admit I haven't paid much attention to it either.

I stopped caring when they said they would never be putting out a patch to make the cities bigger. As it stands right now, the game is "SimNeighborhood", and a botched version of that.

So glad I didn't buy.

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Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 24


Quoting Seilore, reply 18

Quoting Illauna, reply 17EA actually announced they considering an offline patch for SimCity, finally.

Haven't seen that but, I admit I haven't paid much attention to it either.

I stopped caring when they said they would never be putting out a patch to make the cities bigger. As it stands right now, the game is "SimNeighborhood", and a botched version of that.

So glad I didn't buy.

Yeah I got burned bad by SimCity. The have one of the best designed interfaces and some of the best builder tools of the decade but royally screwed up everything else. BTW the iPad version of Sim City is pretty decent. They released it before SimCity and it was excellent. 

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