NitroX infinity NitroX infinity

Thinking of cancelling my pre-order

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Thinking of cancelling my pre-order

I still love GalCiv though!

from GalCiv3 Forums

As we get closer to the alpha of GalCiv3, one thought haunts my brain; "no, this is not the way."

First of all let me clarify where I come from. I am thirty years of age and can be considered an old-school gamer. My first "gaming rig" was an Atari 2600. The black plastic one from 1984, also known as the 2600 Junior. After that I got a Super Nintendo Entertainment System. I still remember the smell when I opened the box for the first time and playing Super Mario World for the first time. It's my fondest childhood memory and probably the reason I like physical media so much.

I got my first PC at the end of 1995. It had Windows 95 and a I got a bunch of games for both DOS and Windows. For those of you who don't know; this was the time period where the first 3D accelerators appeared and DirectX was on it's first iteration; it was not the massive beast we know today. My fondest memories of those times were coming home with a new game and opening the box. Believe it or not but most games had printed manuals, some even in colour! There is something about having the box displayed on a shelf, as if it's saying; "Look at me! My owner bought me and is proud of it!"

And that's where that haunting thought comes in. Though I don't have anything against digital distribution, it just doesn't feel right to not have a box standing on the shelf. Something you can hold in your hands and be happy about, thinking; "Yeah, I bought this. It was a good decision.". But that's not the only thing about GalCiv 3's digital distribution that bothers me. From what I've read, you need internet and Steam and that is the most bothersome.

What if I want to play it on a computer without internet and Steam? What if I don't have it installed and lose my internet connection (money problems, moving to Pluto or somewhere else without internet access) ? How will I be able to install the game then?

This troubles me to the extend that I am seriously thinking of trying to cancel my pre-order (if still possible).

(It is also stuff like this that drives me to download an unauthorized copy of a game. Because those, you can install on any computer without internet or Steam.)

I understand it's probably too expensive for Stardock to have physical media but is there any chance we will be able to download the game, burn it on a disc and install it on a computer without an internet connection and Steam? That would make me feel a whole lot more comfortable.

164,706 views 174 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I should mention EA is still notorious for telling people what they want to hear and not following through. I will actually believe teh offline patch if it comes out. But I have also stopped caring for the most part. 

Reply #27 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting NitroX, reply 23

I'd like to see you get Wifi in the Amazonian jungle or the Sahara desert

 

No problem, fellow Americans have launched lots of satellites to the space just so you can use Steam in the Sahara :)

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #28 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting NitroX, reply 23

That is simply not true. There are many older games that still outshine most newer games.
 

Didn't object to the rest of my post? ;)

Older games, at best, have better puzzles and stories over modern games. Their soundtracks rape the ears, their gameplay is limited by their input controllers and their voice acting is very poor or non-existent.

They have their definite fun factor (I still play Super Mario 64 daily) but see them for what they are. 

Reply #29 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Illauna, reply 26

I should mention EA is still notorious for telling people what they want to hear and not following through. I will actually believe teh offline patch if it comes out. But I have also stopped caring for the most part. 
EA is a cancer.

First they rush my beloved Mass Effect 3, then Dead Space, then Sim City then [insert every EA franchise]...

 

And they ruined Spore! RAWR

Reply #30 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting ParagonRenegade, reply 28


Quoting NitroX infinity, reply 23
That is simply not true. There are many older games that still outshine most newer games.
 

Didn't object to the rest of my post?

Older games, at best, have better puzzles and stories over modern games. Their soundtracks rape the ears, their gameplay is limited by their input controllers and their voice acting is very poor or non-existent.

They have their definite fun factor (I still play Super Mario 64 daily) but see them for what they are. 

 

No, not much to object to that. But soundtracks that rape the ears? Come on! C&C:TD & C&C:RA have excellent soundtracks. Limited by their input controllers? What? Keyboard and mouse? In twenty years, you'll say the same about current games. Holding old games to modern standards is a non-argument. You play them as they are and if you don't like what you're able to do, play a newer game.

As for voice-acting, I've seen plenty of games with proper voice-acting. Don't ask me to name them though, I'd have to play all the games in my collection again to remember which ;P

When it comes to EA; Bullfrog and Westwood Studios. That should be enough to win any debate about how bad EA is ;)

Reply #31 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting NitroX, reply 30


No, not much to object to that. But soundtracks that rape the ears? Come on! C&C:TD & C&C:RA have excellent soundtracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQeFvUuPNHc

I dare you to find something better.

Limited by their input controllers? What? Keyboard and mouse? In twenty years, you'll say the same about current games.

I was under the impression you were talking about console games, my mistake. Still, modern keyboards and mice are better than the older fossils; lasers > Wheels :3

Holding old games to modern standards is a non-argument. You play them as they are and if you don't like what you're able to do, play a newer game.

If you're determining what game is better than the other, you can frequently turn to another game in its series or a similar game in another franchise and compare them. For instance; Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars was much better than Command and Conquer 4. Their age and temporal separation doesn't make comparison invalid.

As for voice-acting, I've seen plenty of games with proper voice-acting. Don't ask me to name them though, I'd have to play all the games in my collection again to remember which

Well, I remember Starfox having voice acting, which made me want to rip Slippy's throat out.

When it comes to EA; Bullfrog and Westwood Studios. That should be enough to win any debate about how bad EA is

 

I don't think anybody really bothers disputing it anymore lol

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ParagonRenegade, reply 31


Quoting NitroX infinity, reply 30

No, not much to object to that. But soundtracks that rape the ears? Come on! C&C:TD & C&C:RA have excellent soundtracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQeFvUuPNHc

I dare you to find something better.


Limited by their input controllers? What? Keyboard and mouse? In twenty years, you'll say the same about current games.

I was under the impression you were talking about console games, my mistake. Still, modern keyboards and mice are better than the older fossils; lasers > Wheels :3


Holding old games to modern standards is a non-argument. You play them as they are and if you don't like what you're able to do, play a newer game.

If you're determining what game is better than the other, you can frequently turn to another game in its series or a similar game in another franchise and compare them. For instance; Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars was much better than Command and Conquer 4. Their age and temporal separation doesn't make comparison invalid.


As for voice-acting, I've seen plenty of games with proper voice-acting. Don't ask me to name them though, I'd have to play all the games in my collection again to remember which

Well, I remember Starfox having voice acting, which made me want to rip Slippy's throat out.


When it comes to EA; Bullfrog and Westwood Studios. That should be enough to win any debate about how bad EA is

 

I don't think anybody really bothers disputing it anymore lol

Don't forget Origin. 

I was genuinely depressed when EA aquired Bioware. 

Reply #33 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Illauna, reply 32

Don't forget Origin. 

I was genuinely depressed when EA aquired Bioware. 

You're talking to a guy named "ParagonRenegade"; keep that in mind when you bring issues with EA to my attention ha.

 

 

Reply #34 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

EA bought and demolished my favourite games. To the point of, instead of being excited when those games are in development I go and say: "Another one bites the dust..."

Reply #35 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Like the OP, I'd much rather have a physical copy of the game.  I have a house out in the country where the only internet available is dial up, or satellite (with a data transfer limit).  That's why I moved to an apartment in the city while I sell the place.  Maybe I could play games that I already owned on Steam there, but forget about buying new ones.

But even if I don't need a connection to play a game I've purchased, I'd still rather have a physical copy of the game in case Steam goes tits up years from now, or even so I don't forget that I have it.  I don't download music (over 600 CDs) or watch movies online (probably over 600 DVDs as well).  I read books all the time and would never consider buying one that wasn't printed on paper.  I dunno, I guess (like the OP) I just feel more comfortable having a product I can actually hold in my hand instead of someone else holding onto it and simply letting me use it when I want.

Another thing that bothers me about digital downloads is the price.  Back when we had boxes in retail stores, games were like 40 or 60 bucks it seems.  Now that we have digital downloads, and game companies don't need to pay for manufacturing, distribution, and all that crap, games are STILL 40 or 60 bucks!  I would think that digital downloads would be cheaper since they don't cost that much to get to market.  So basically, we're paying the same price for the same game, minus the reassurance of an actual physical copy.

 

But having said all that, there's no way in FRIGGIN HELL, that I would pass up on Galactic Civilizations 3 simply because I don't believe in digital downloads.  Are you crazy?  I'd play Galciv3 out of someone's smelly asshole if I had to!  The unfortunate fact is that digital distribution is here to stay, and since I really have no desire to quit computer gaming or go outside into the sunlight, I guess I'm stuck with the way the worm has turned.

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Reply #36 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Wetballs, reply 35
Another thing that bothers me about digital downloads is the price.  Back when we had boxes in retail stores, games were like 40 or 60 bucks it seems.  Now that we have digital downloads, and game companies don't need to pay for manufacturing, distribution, and all that crap, games are STILL 40 or 60 bucks!  I would think that digital downloads would be cheaper since they don't cost that much to get to market.  So basically, we're paying the same price for the same game, minus the reassurance of an actual physical copy.

As as 40-60 dollar game sells enough copies to remain more profitable then any other price point then this will always be the case. Besides, why pay $40-60. Just wait for a steam sale and get it for 9.99. 

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

Speaking of Steam sale. Just a reminder the Winter sale is coming likely in two weeks think real hard if you intend on purchasing a game until then unless it's 50%-75% on a weekly or daily deal. 

Reply #38 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Illauna, reply 36

As as 40-60 dollar game sells enough copies to remain more profitable then any other price point then this will always be the case. Besides, why pay $40-60. Just wait for a steam sale and get it for 9.99. 

 

Well yeah, this is of course what I do.  Galciv3 is one of a very few games that I would actually pay full price for, just to have at it as soon as it and it's expansions are available.  While I'm not happy with digital distribution, I'll have to admit that I do have a hard drive full of steam sale purchases, most of which haven't even been played.

Reply #39 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Illauna, reply 37

Speaking of Steam sale. Just a reminder the Winter sale is coming likely in two weeks think real hard if you intend on purchasing a game until then unless it's 50%-75% on a weekly or daily deal. 

 

Yep, got my wishlist primed and ready!

 

Reply #40 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I used to think similar to the OP but my main objection to digital downloads is that you don't own the game. I say that because a game that you buy off the shelf in a box, if you wanted to, you could sell it (i know there are more and more exceptions these days), because you can sell things that belong to you. You cannot sell a digital download, and therefore it cannot be defined as being your own property.

What i think these days is that digital downloads are brilliant! Because i never have to stuff around with a disk to run a game - and after using digital downloads for some time, whenever i feel like playing a game that i still only have on disk, i think, "oh stuff it, i will play this other game on digital download instead".

On top of all that, i now hate disks so much, i am actively re-buying all my old games i already have on disk as digital downloads!!!!! I love the website called GOG (good old games) because you can find allot of really old games there for digital download that you won't find available on Steam or Stardock.

Reply #41 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Different strokes for different folkes I suppose. 

 

It's been probably three years since I last installed an optical drive onto a homebuilt. It's not that I dislike them, it's that eventually I just realized that I was using them less and less and then eventually not at all. It's just not really necessary anymore.

 

Is a nice case, with an awesome full color, 150 page manual and a physical soundtrack cooler than a digital download? You bet it is!...Is it necessary? Not at all.

Reply #42 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Wetballs, reply 35

Another thing that bothers me about digital downloads is the price.  Back when we had boxes in retail stores, games were like 40 or 60 bucks it seems.  Now that we have digital downloads, and game companies don't need to pay for manufacturing, distribution, and all that crap, games are STILL 40 or 60 bucks!  I would think that digital downloads would be cheaper since they don't cost that much to get to market.  So basically, we're paying the same price for the same game, minus the reassurance of an actual physical copy.

Game prices haven't kept pace with rising development costs and inflation. Getting more money out of each sale is the reason why.

It's also allowed genres to be successful that simply wouldn't exist anymore if they had to be sold at retail... like pretty much indie everything. It's not like developers are just pocketing millions suddenly.

Reply #43 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 42

Game prices haven't kept pace with rising development costs and inflation. Getting more money out of each sale is the reason why.

It's also allowed genres to be successful that simply wouldn't exist anymore if they had to be sold at retail... like pretty much indie everything. It's not like developers are just pocketing millions suddenly.

 

Didn't you say on the first page that digital distribution allows Stardock to profit two or three times more than what they would get over retail?  If that's true, then it certainly DOES seem as though developers are suddenly pocketing millions.  If my paychecks suddenly doubled or tripled, I'd crap my pants.  Hell, I'd crap your pants too!

Reply #44 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Here's the reality

1) Stardock is not going back to physical retail. The cost to do so is high, with zero benefit to them. Sins of a Solar Empire 2 has unequivoacbly shown that their need to be in retail to move even 100,000 is moot.

2) PC gaming in general is moving to digital distribution. Consdiering most stores don't bother to carry PC games at all, or if they do only 'big' things like 'concrete knee high wall grey dust simulator 2014', the retail space for a niche game like Galciv3 is basically zero.

3) Given the ubiquity and the necessity of the Internet now, even for just basic stuff VoIP, LTE, cable, etc. Means that internet access will be more prevalent in the future, not less so. You'll be more likely to not find a McDonalds than to find a square inch of space that doesn't have Internet somehow.

 

As a counter argument to 'physical media'

http://jordanmechner.com/blog/2012/04/source/

Hell I don't even have a cd/dvd player in my custom rig anymore. It's utterly redundant. Having the physical media doesn't guarantee anything. YOu coudl just as easily be having this team trying to recover 'that totally archaic ntfs non-sense MS made' in 20 years.

 

The reality is that gaming has itself changed over the years, from tape media, to single use cartridges, to floppies, to hard floppies, to wtf 5 cds for wing commander are they nuts, to dvds, to now blu-ray media. It will continue to change and evolve. To wax nostagically about the past is nice, but teh future won't stop because of it.

Reply #45 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I can't really see why anyone would proudly display such trinkets made from the blood sweat and tears of Chinese sweatshops tbh. I'm not "old school" just old, and while having a physical manual is nice, you can do much better by taking the .pdf to a Kinkos or whatever and print your own larger font manual (like I said, getting old). Now, having our entire library of games being centralized, controlled and overseen by Dear Leader Gabe and too-big-to-fail Steam is another issue entirely, and perhaps something to think about. :)

Reply #46 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting screamingpalm, reply 45
Now, having our entire library of games being centralized, controlled and overseen by Dear Leader Gabe and too-big-to-fail Steam is another issue entirely, and perhaps something to think about.

TBH, I'm not sure which worries me more: overcentralization on a single vendor, or the same game being sold on 4-5 different platforms with exclusive content on each platform. It's usually a console issue, but it's not hard to predict a "Steam Exclusive" version, and "Gamestop Exclusive", a "Steam Competitor #17 Exclusive", etc.

Reply #47 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Your all forgetting two things, inflation, and what Brad said about having not made any money on GC1 and GC2 because of how much the retailers took and how some distributors failed to accurately report sales.

Reply #48 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting WIllythemailboy, reply 46


. It's usually a console issue, but it's not hard to predict a "Steam Exclusive" version, and "Gamestop Exclusive", a "Steam Competitor #17 Exclusive", etc.

PC games already do that. Steam may have TF2 items, or the 'tiered' rewards system for pre-orders. Amazon/GMG gnereally match that in some way by orffering a free game or such. Retailers generally want a 'bestbuy' vesrion of the game too, which was evident in the Witcher2 campaign.

Reply #49 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Lucky, reply 47

Your all forgetting two things, inflation, and what Brad said about having not made any money on GC1 and GC2 because of how much the retailers took and how some distributors failed to accurately report sales.

 

I do remember reading about how Stardock go boned early on and I totally think that sucks.  I listen to a lot of bands who tell similar stories about record companies taking all the profit from their early days.

But as a consumer, I have to gauge how much value I place on a product vs. how much the company is charging for it.  In just about every case, there's no way in hell I'll pay full price for a game based purely on it's reviews or what I see in Youtube "lets plays". In order for me to shell out $40 for a game, I have to trust the company that makes it.  I gave Stardock $100 up front because Galciv2 was one of the best games I ever played (second only to City of Heroes), and because I have confidence that they'll make Galciv3 at least as good if not better. And if it isn't, they'll go out of their way to MAKE it better (ala Fallen Enchantress).

For me, the best part about Steam is the sales they have.

Reply #50 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Frogboy did post recently about how the retail cycle worked for Elemental

HOwever I've never heard anyting about GalCiv1/2 not making any money.....