Good one.

That's why you poach the Guardians first. And another zinger, props.

You can put away your dick measuring stick, fella. Remember, my argument is based on the idea that I lose and win games and get better through that process. Your argument is based on your own totally infallible knowledge. I'm totally ready to concede how awesome you are.

We can agree on one thing though, Seleuceia's post was good. Karma time. 

Kull: While I can understand why you are mad but im not going to let you ignore the main points of my last post. Instead you are pointing at smaller ones and insulting it. Such as offensive players cannot go economy, we are done here im assuming you agree. Now onto your post.

• If you actually looked at my post all he had was a titan and 15 guardians. I had a level 8 Sova(At the time I was testings its viability my opponent did not react properly and snipe it early, so saying I am bad for picking it is a fallacy because he did not abuse the fact that sovas are bad EARLY) and a huge fleet.
• Again as Seleuceia said LRF's are the BEST choice against guardians it does not mean it is not a shitty choice to be put in. The damage is fine but as I said in my last post that you completely ignored the Eradica will feed off the the LRF's.

Now im going to highlight one specific sentence from one of the bullets up there that is the main point. Because you skipped almost 90% of my post with your last one. There I bolded it for your to see, now like I said LRF's are. titan. food. Now, please do reply and tell me about how much you disagree, or strawman my argument, or go on a tangent about something that is completely unrelated. Or do as you say in your post about how you "lose or win I admit my losses" and respond with something relevant.

I know your point is I should have gotten better by perhaps building LRF's a good point, my point is LRF's = eradica food. No matter what the best choice to counter Guardians is to be in a shitty position which is wrong.

Edit: And for the record I do not appreciate you editing out some of my quotes for your own personal gain. Thank you very much.

I don't address every word that you write because I agree with some of them. I assure you, I've read all your responses. And I realize that 15 Guardians, an Eradica, and a few Destras was hard to handle, no sarcasm here, that's a tough spot. Futhermore, I think it's a good point to bring up that fact that the Eradica can torch LRMs if it closes on them. 

Based on the replay, the only thing that I do not agree with you on is that you were out of options. If I was handed the empire you built at that time your enemy started working the Guardians, I think I could have found tactical success against him using LRMs, bombers, careful fleet movement, etc. And I think if you would have tried some other means, you would have too.

Now that is understandable, but for the most part my posts were not necessarily referring to the replay. The replay was the best example I had to the difficulty the TEC has with dealing with that particular strategy and it does need a nerf. I am aware of the fact the TKP is broken after it is fixed TEC will almost have no chance of actually being able to defeat the Advent rebels. Now I do apologize if that did not come off as clear, if you actually look at the first post referring to countering the repulsion it had no mention of my replay(mainly because I am aware that riddleking had not actually watched it) and his points were based on speculation.

And what I was implying was that LRFs are the best solution to guardians. But that does not mean they are a good solution. And alright but do accept my apology for if I offended you in some way, I do get into debating about things very intensely and I usually look at points very narrowly as well.

Edit: but I do acknowledge what you are saying in that replay I do think there was SOMETHING I could of done, but that is because of a broken ability.

Quick question Mayall--we are tired of giving you the answers so since we know you have a brain im going to ask you this:

If you know lrm is Eradica food then what do you think you should do? (answer the question and only this question)

There is no real answer, LRFs is the only real solution to guardians, but as I said its not a good one. The same thing goes with bombers. Im assuming you would agree with this riddleking? For if you did not know the first level of Chastic Burst does 500 damage, every 20 seconds(Lower in faster games). There are a lot of viable ways to actually solve this problem that does not necessarily mean nerfing repulse but here are a few of them.

• The first direct approach is nerf repulse into oblivion, to be honest I don't think this would be as bad as people say it is because for the most part Advent armies like being close to the enemies(Flak/Illuminator(the only actual LRF not really effected by corvette spam). Repulse could be used as an oh shit button to back off enemies from their ships still. Or to block of phase lanes from having them warp. You could nerf it to sabotages 5000 range it still outranges the weapons of all the frigates but can be countered through proper micro.
• Then there is the inverse just buff sabotage, probably the one that you would like better. Because it does not involve nerfing the Advent. To be honest it never made sense to me why the Vasari Grav Distort had 8000 range while suppression did not. I understand sabotage is on a much more spammable unit, so that is a problem.
• The next solution is the unlazy solution which more than likely the devs will not do. And that is allowing for corvettes to go right through repulsion.
• Another more logical one would be to nerf chastics range to 3150 its a severely powerful spell and should leave the titan vulnerable.

No answer you are going to like because you like the way repulsion is in diplomacy. But there is not actual way for the TEC to counter it in rebellion. And if they do, it puts them in a worse position to counter a really cheap unit. Because as you said the only two counters that YOU know of are javelis and bombers. Much as to what seleuceia said bombers are high inneffective against an Advent fleet who has halcyons(A very common capital ship) as TKP owns them. And javelis I think have been explained thoroughly as they just cannot be produced en masse anymore(due to being countered by corvettes, which transitions into flak, which could transition into LF's but probably will just result in heavies and carries.). Due you want the honest brutal truth, there really is almost nothing a TEC player can do to come out on top of a player who executes this strategy, even if he kills the guardians they are cheap and easily replaced while the TEC player more than likely lost his fleet.

Heres a fun fact also, at max range javelis can hit a titan from 9800 range, the titan has to move closer to hit the Javelis with Chastic burst with a range of 5000. So moving closer to hit the LRFs with chastic leaves it at a range of 4800 this leaves the titan still outranging the heavies that have a range of 3150. This however does open up the option to EMP some of the titans AM. But if its at full AM your fleet is still shit out of luck.

Repluse has pretty much ALWAYS been broken.  Either it's an 'I WIN' Advent strategy, or it was nerfed to the point where it wasn't worth using.  Just replace it already while there's still time for major overhaul.  It's just one of those ability ideas that will never work out.

RB buff was the most random, uncalled for change in the beta.  No one was talking about it needing a buff.  If anything it needed nerfs before.

I didn't even bother reading most of what you wrote because it was a simple question. I wanted strategic in game options.

Now you obviously understand that LRM outrange chastic burst   5000/6000km vs 9800 without targeting uplink right?

Do you also understand when someone is using repulsion there pushing the enemy out of range of chastic burst? 

LRFS do not get pushed back from from repulsion(Edit: assuming of course that they are at max range, if they were at close range they were fucked). If you actually read the post it explains exactly what I am about to say. Chastic has 5000 range yes it is shorter, but still even when chastic reaches range all frigates/cruisers still cannot reach the Eradica. The Eradica can still hit the LRFS with chastic without taking damage(except from LRFs which should be killing the guardians to let in your fleet). And you are assuming tageting uplink is at max rank, which again you are assuming the TEC is in the best possible position. Two halcyons still do work against bombers even at low levels.

And even in all this you still know this is way to much micro than it is to put in the effort to press repulsion. And again there is still no way that the TEC will come out ahead. Stop arguing, accept your loss, and stop being biased. You know you are asking way to much of a TEC player. LRF's are ALWAYS a bad choice in rebellion it is basically asking zerglings to kill marines with stim you CAN do it, it does not mean it is a good idea.

And don't think I didn't have a phase where when I beat TEC players with this strategy I thought they just had to get better. I used it before, then I realized how truly broken it is.

Edit: I also cant be the only one finding it funny that the TEC are more like the zerg, the vasari are more like the protoss, and the Advent are more like the terran.

I asked you a simple question and once again your rambling-- 

Your jumping ahead of yourself again.. lets take this step by step...chess style

Your being repulsed--the 7500km range barrier is in place so you start to snipe the guardians at 9800+ range, not the titan-nobody gives a rats ass about the titan until the guardians are gone so you can move within range and have all ability disabling abilities, sabotage, emp etc to start working-whatever your poison is . 

So the eradica is moving in for the kill-but you ignore it and keep firing at all the guardians... 

Lets play this chess style.. 

So what now? 

To be honest this depends on the level of the titan. But we'll play it your way.

1. You keep firing at the guardians and maybe kill them all, if you do the tec fleet SHOULD be able to kill the fleet.

2. If it was an absurd amount of Guardians(15 or so) the TEC will not kill them and the advent will rip the TEC player a new one.

3. The Eradica shits all over your LRF's.

----

To be honest I dont really think your way of doing it will work because there are to many variable that change this matchup. What im saying is in most cases LRF count will be low(Building LRFs is highly discouraged in rebellion). Even if you do build LRFs there is no actual guarantee you will be able to kill the guardians because it all depends on the number of them. But be fair here, generally you will not be producing LRFs because you know there are units that counter them on the field, so when you actually start producing them you are producing them ASSUMING the enemy will get repulse, if you overcommit to this strategy the enemy instead of getting repulse could go destras/corvettes/flak. But lets not talk about that, lets assume he gets repulse for now, and then you are taking a gamble on Do I have enough time, to produce enough shit. Yes the TEC does produce fast, but there does come a line to where even large numbers cannot compete against a massive aoe shitstorm of damage.

But in the situation you described against a level 1 titan it may be possible, but a level 3, your fleet is going to get shit on.

Stop right there-your rambling again--and your jumping back to your replay where you didn't have lrm in quantities--we r here , in my scenario where i have lots of flak, lots of hoshikos, lots of lrm, lots of carriers and a dozen command cruisers. Akkan + Dunov

so i kill the guardians  and win---no eradica shitting alover me just yet... don't be confused.

Not jumping back the the replay, you put me in a scenario where "if I killed the guardians I win". First off I have no idea what will happen if I kill the guardians. That guardians just got heavily fed by LRFs is something I know. As for a smaller add on its not mumbling if it is relevant. You are as I said putting myself into a position where I am put into a position of self defeat and that is unfair an stupid and you know it.

Im not going to bother finishing because it is late and I am tired. And i will give a much mroe thought out respond tomorrow.

You do that. Think of a better way for my scenario to loose--you don't make sense by saying the guardians just got heavily fed by lrf... your titan you mean-but your confused, the titan has no guardians, its a level 1 titan, and emp is disabling all kinds of things around its 4500km range. 

Don't worry ill be here to discuss how i could loose tommorow.

O_O Crazy thread!

The joy of circular argumentation! You guys should debate life and stuff like that, you have way too much time on your hands...

baha, yes I meant Titan.

Look riddle the whole thing comes down to in the situation I was in I was severely ahead of my opponent and he produced guardians and the entire thing turned 180(Pretty much after two of them were produced.). The whole thing comes down to he had the eradica, one of the best fleet wiping titans in game. There is no way I could produce enough LRF to deal with the 15 guardians he was producing, the same goes for LightCarriers. I did not have an akkan at the time because you are asking that I had to open with the akkan(Which is not standard for the offensive position, colonizers are generally for eco).

To be honest it all comes down to if a TEC player(No longer referring to the replay) can come from a clear position that he was winning the game, and all the Advent has to do is buy guardians and stall with repulsion for their titan to come out. And then have it 180, even though the TEC player CLEARLY has the advantage. There is something imbalanced about this ability. It does not matter that Javelis can reach guardians(This has been discussed to death the Javelis is a poor unit now), it does not matter that percheons can bomber spam them(Also discussed to death). It comes down to one unit should not have that much of an impact through one ability, one hoshiko cannot turn the tide of battle, one celio cannot turn the tide of battle, one domina cannot turn the tide of battle(Although that anti-disable is powerful), the overseer does not turn the tide of battle, Distortion Field field does but we all know that ability is bullshit(But this thread is not about this ability).

No matter what there may be a counter to the "guardian spam" it does not mean it is a good one, and as said before one unit, even a pair should not change the tide of battle. They are not capital ships, they are support ships.

WRT the Eradica, unless my math is off, the Eradica would have to move in front of her Guardians to use Chaotic Burst on your LRMs, still within the repulsion bubble, but within range of several abilities (ie. emp) and a wider variety of weaponry, also level 1 chaotic burst on it's own without fracture or malice isn't going to do too much if your Hoshikos were on the job.

Edit - Ah wait, nevermind, you already covered this, I'm having trouble keeping up with these needless walls of text.

Yes sir^^ this all depends on if you have a dunov or not, ion bolt will just delay the chastic by a few seconds.

Mayall is needless..only wants a solution that doesn't involve using javelis and loosing some in the process while replenshing them with reinforcements. It could go on forever given the level of idiocy involved in a debate where the counter is not accepted because it suffers from too many losses.

One funny thing about this is given all the stuff we have discussed it then won't come as a no brainier to simply have your own titan in the mix for the extra fire-power. Just makes for an interesting debate don't you think? fleet vs titan fails so noob crys like a baby and posts replays of how using repulse is like cheating. 

Im about to upload a replay if you don't believe me it happened again, this replay is going to show you why a LRF's of all types are useless. Why repulse is OP. I am relying on someone grabbing it for me because I just minidumped out of the game.

Here is the synopsis: Again I have kodiaks, corvettes, and flak(although the flak MAY have been wailed). He once again had a few guardians, a titan, and LRFs, also a titan. My titan MELTS his LRFs this puts my titan from level 3 to 4 because like I said riddle king LRFs are titan food. At this point he only has his titan and is producing more LRFs and Destras. AGAIN repulse stops a demise that should have happened. Even with the titans superior range and abilities I cannot overcome a mass of guardians(which mine was 3 at the beginning of the fight and his was level 1). Before you even speak im attempting to recover the replay from another player.

So before you speak again, don't think I have not done something because I probably have done almost every strategy to counter and use repulse. You're just being biased as usual.

You know... If Repulsion would be nerfed so that it doesn't push all frigate types out of weapon range except for the LRF's it basically becomes completely useless. So what exactly do you propose Mayall?

At this point the only viable counter (when playing as Advent yourself) is to spam bombers on the Guardians (or use Repulsion yourself). The other races have enough possible counters to Repulsion (look at page 2 of this thread, at Sage's reply).

I truly do not see how an ability that pushed units back so your fleet can escape, and cuts off phase lanes would be useless. As for the replay it didnt come through to my email im going to have to get it again through other means. Also just because the advent cannot face roll fights anymore does not make it useless.

You could do the same thing actually, you just have to actually MICRO the guardian. Put them further in front of your fleet.