I currently cannot access steam and I don't usually give out karma its really a formality nothing else.

It would seem we have another troll in our community...

Qu4r and RiddleKing will be soooo pleased.....

I hand out karma like it's candy!

Don't be silly---your not paying attention: JAVELIS Don't suck when you have command cruisers with designate target increasing their damage against guardians. Whats wrong with you?

He's just a wanna be..look i can throw karma at you aswell

O rly?  Take a karma pie to da face!

Javelis do suck when almost every single unit built in the game does large amounts of damage to them;P javelis primary design as to be anti-medium a counter to LF's which are also no longer built.
Corvettes, Flak, Heavies

You joking?  LRF shred pretty much everything.  They have a very high DPS per supply and antimedium damage does 75% damage or higher to pretty much everything.

Antimedum is probably the second best frigate damage type after composite- which only comes on short range units.  There's a reason LRF pretty much WAS the meta for so long in diplomacy- because LRF kill pretty much every frigate in the game fast.  Yes they counter LF the hardest, but that's far from their only purpose...in fact they are probably more useful for killing heav yarmor units like guardians late game then LF are(LF being the heavya rmor counter) being that LF survival rates in late game fleet battles is abyssmal.

Just because heavy armor isn't what LRF are absolutely best at doesn't mean they suck at it- for some ships this  may be the case, but the anti-m,edium damage type is one of the most versatile damage types in the game- especially for the Javelis which has a positively amazing DPS:supply ratio.

Bilun. This is rebellion, not diplomacy. LRFS get shredded now.

Corvettes are the chief difference in regards to LRF.  And frankly flak counters corvettes every bit as hard as corvettes counter LRF.  The fact that LRF in turn have a counter does not change the fact that they can counter repulse- everything should have a counter, it's not reasonable to expect a counter which it's self cannot be countered.

Again, I'm not entirely opposed to reducing repulse's effect a bit.  I just disagree with your prognosis on the complete uncounterability of repulse.  there's a difference between "a bit too strong/hard to counter" and "impossible to deal with"/"absolutely without counters" as you seem to imply.

You should always have a stack of javelins with your hoshiko, around your akkan,  defended by a shield of kodiak/guard frigates. add in a pair of lvled morza and laugh at the incoming fleet.

I'd like to just point out that back in the day, the TEC vs. Advent match-up was abysmal...once the Advent got repulse, it was very difficult as TEC to defeat an Advent fleet...even with LRM spam, guardians were simply too hard to kill fast enough...

Then illuminators got nerfed, and the Advent generally couldn't get repulse soon enough to make a difference...so it was easily forgotten for awhile, and thus I'd like to refresh everyone's memory that people wailed for a repulse nerf even back then, when LRMs were KING (excluding the OP illuminator, of course)....

And now, LRMs aren't that good of an option...flak, fighters, HCs, CVs: they all counter LRFs, and they all counter them hard...hell, even bombers are pretty damn good against the things (though bombers are good against just about anything)...the only ship that isn't good against LRFs is LFs...no wonder Repulse is once again a problem....

Mayall, I want to believe that you're not just whining because you lost. I really do!

But you make that quite difficult because your main defense against the "build bombers" solution is: "he would have built Halcyons with TKP." Do you see the hypothetical in there? I can't side with you here because you didn't even try to counter. You assumed that your enemies had prepared for that contingency. Your opponents had you beat mentally without even building a ship, and that's called being outplayed.  

In one of your posts you suggested two Halcyons would have done the trick. So there you're throwing in another hypothetical that your Advent opposition had the economy, fleet capacity, AND presence of mind to field two Halcyons fast enough to counter any bombers you could build. The problem with these hypotheticals is that they exist outside of the scenario you gave us with the replay. You did not prove them because you didn't try.

Maybe if you had built bombers you would have been countered. Maybe if you had built Akkan/LRMs you would have just fed the titan. But we don't know because instead of trying either of those, you gave up. You let your opponent work you over with repulsion and then got mad and quit and started a thread to justify your rage.

In this case, repulsion was used as an effective counter to your close range fleet, which is exactly the intent behind the ability. If you want to prove that repulsion counters too many things, bring us a replay of you actually trying many different counters against repulsion and failing with a good effort. This replay + your list of "what if's" does not prove your point.

Im just going to shut down the whole post by saying ive done it and it works. Its easily abusable.

Flak counters LRFs also...

Haha, you've "shut down" my whole post because YOU HAVE tried all the counters and nothing works versus repulsion? OK we'll just take your word for it then. Clearly, there's no way that your opponents were better than you, they just abused repulse, that's the only answer.

In that case: devs, please nerf repulse so this man can win like he is supposed to... 

It's a tactic that has been around forever with Advent. It's not abuse, it's strategy for the advent race that is clearly intended by Ironclad. It also takes a fair amount of skill to use effectively. Sorry, no nerf for you.

Flak is not a counter to LRF. Flak is effective against LRF if micro'd properly.

Sorry im just sick of having to repeat myself.

Just read what seleuceia had said up top it explains it all.

*sigh* No it doesn't. Only one of those is a hard counter to LRF's (not sure why he left out Corvettes). The days of only building LRF has met it's match due to Corvettes and Titans (esp. with AOE abilities). 

Simply saying something HARD counters another unit is not the same as it actually HARD countering the unit. We don't need to nerf units based on perceptions and emotions.

Hes a bloody fool--says lrm sucks-- 

Javelis is cheap, has splash damage upgrades, with command cruisers it gets 40% damage boost before mitigation and armor, destroys caps and guardians in seconds with targeting up-link. Add carriers with bombers and well--the 40% is still in play--do the maths. 

==Officially in rebellions final release after corvette changes==

open with flak then lrm, skip the fools who build lf and get punished (hint hint: Mayall the inferior)...

Tec's insane economy makes javelis so spammable, so deadly, corvettes added in the mixure makes for an excellent titan killing fleet. 

To hell with all the noobs who don't invest in armor upgrades to make javelis level with HC's hull integrity..as opposed to their opponents because in the end your only defense against chastic burst is armor, mitigation and strength in numbers.

I didn't.....

I use CV for Corvette, which means...

Three are a hard counter (HCs, fighters, and CVs)...damage tables put those ships at 1.5, 2.0, and 1.5 vs. light armor (respectively)...flak was a hard counter with minimal micro, though the very recent flak nerf has changed that...

So out of 6 ships (HCs, CVs, fighters, bombers, flak, and LFs), 3 are hard counters against LRFs, 2 fair rather well, and only 1 is actually weak against them...add on their vulnerability to AoE abilities, and thats a pretty foreboding outlook for LRFs...

I won't say they are useless, but if you invest heavily in LRFs for any reason (such as a guardian spam), your opponent's counterattack could easily devastate your fleet...

I will defer to my original serious suggestion of increasing the range of ion bolt and phase out hull to 8000...these are changes I have actually played with and am happy with (though I will admit the other stats of ion bolt and phase out hull were slightly different), and I find them effective in dealing with guardians...if your opponent spams so many guardians your caps simply can't handle them, then your opponent is lacking in something else (likely raw fleet DPS) and that is a hole that can be exploited...

I love you, Mayall.  I really do.  

However, it would have been impossible for him to build Halcyons with TKP.

Why do I say that?  TKP didn't work at the time of the match, and still doesn't.

Here's a screen shot from a game I was playing. Obviously a fairly large fleet can slip in past the big red button. This was in an asteroid gravity well.  Granted if I had better placement it would be a little trickier, but there's no way I can cover the whole phase lane.

Bloody acronyms ;) 

I glossed over your post when I didn't see Corvette or your CV... But...

Still FLAK is not a hard counter. Flak only do 75% to Light armor and unless you constantly position them your not getting all banks firing. Sorry, I just don't consider FLAK a hard counter because of this.  

This I agree with as more accurately stated.

Just FYI, anyone who has keeps up with or serves in the American navy could get confused by this. CV has always been the abbreviation for carrier, not corvette. Granted Sins doesn't have to use such an illogical system, but I'll bet you anything in the future if you use CV in passing ("they're worse than CVs") I'm going to think you mean carrier cruisers.

Well, I already have LC for light carrier...why can't you understand my personal shorthand???  Didn't you get the telepathic memo??

It's all good...I'd be embarrased to tell you how long it took me to realize what SB stood for...