L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer.

So misfortunes that befall non-believers aren't tests? They look the same.

Is that not your desire? To live for God? To glorify him, etc.?

 I don't feel like going back over the perception and differences debate we had, so let it suffice to say: "To each their own path and way; may their journey be safe and full and gentle - do no harm."

Indeed, everyone is human.

Your point? Jesus was a carpenter (slightly tongue in cheek there). Mohammed was many things. Confucious was a philosopher.

What one thing gives any religion its validity? You and others like you may find them absurd, and that's all well and good - but does that mean they're...stupid? (for want of a better term)

To each their own.

Be well, ~Alderic

What about this example? Someone with a serious illness goes to a preacher with a reputation for healing people. The person isn't healed. The preacher says it's because their faith wasn't strong enough.

If you take the writings of a science fiction writer as fact, you're even more gullible than Christians.

Infidel, my point is...to each their own. Each person will find their own faith or lack thereof. People like you and I may think they're nuts, or borderline...whatever, but that's their choice. It's my view that faith is valid to each specific person. So, to say that one or another religion is stupid or whatever - means you're not seeing it from the individual's perspective.

Be well, ~Alderic

Are you asking me?  The preacher is giving bad information. Not only that, but a preacher cannot heal people.  Only God can.  This preacher is basing his ministry on a health and wealth gospel which is a false gospel.  What about Job?  His faith was very strong and yet look at his misfortune.  Joseph? Daniel?  Paul?  Same thing.  Sometimes God doesn't want a person healed.  Did you know that not one bad thing is written about Joseph, Daniel or Jesus yet all three faithful men went thru much adversity?    On sickness we see  in 2 Timothy 4 Paul said this about his faithful friend:

"Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick." 

Paul was a great healer, but for some reason God didn't allow Paul to heal Trophimus.  Serving God does not come with guarantees that we will survive every adversity unscathed.  Nor does it mean that we will always survive.  It could be God's plan to glorify Himself through our martyrdom or through our deliverance.  The saying goes, "the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" because many faithful stayed faithful to God right up to their deaths even taking the place of others in death.  The church grows stronger thru adversity than it does thru the good times. 

Christianity is not just one among many religions.  Christianity stands unique among all the world's religious systems because its founder, Jesus Christ is the Son of God.  He came to earth to reveal God to us in human form.  This is true of no other religion.  

A Christian is not someone who simply attends church, tries to be good on his own or attempts to build up merit before God.  Rituals and good deeds will not make you a Christian; you need a personal relationship with Christ.  All religions are based on a works based system.  Christianity is unique in that it's based on a relationship not religiousity. 

rain falls on the just and the unjust. 

What if that preacher has supposedly healed other people? So you think those are all lies? You don't believe that God can work through a person in that way? Wouldn't that be one of those good works?

What is this "false gospel"? Which gospel is false?

Supposedly healed?  Lies?  Yes, sometimes.  It's a great business you know.  I'm a Pastor's wife. Believe me I've seen my share of imposters!   Of course, I don't know whom you're speaking of so I'm just speaking generally here. 

But if any pastor is claiming to heal people himself.  Run.  If any pastor is claiming a man doesn't get healed because he doesn't have enough faith?  Run!  Because he's gone outside of scriptures to make these claims.  In other words he's got his own business going. 

Let's just say....if you're inclined to give money or believe in this stuff...beware. 

Not me.

I believe in prayer and healing thru prayer.  I do not believe in the gift of healing as some of these guys are claiming...no.  Almost always they've been proven to be liars and imposters.  Many people ignore this because they are hurting and wish it to be true that they are willing to ignore the big red flags. 

there's only one gospel and that is the good news of Christ found in the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  Gospel means good news.  The good news is that Christ reconciled man with God by his death on the cross. 

The false gospel is anything but like the one you brought up here and is called a Health and Wealth Gospel.  This is quite popular today.  It means that that your spiritualness is tied in with your health and wealth.  So if all is good between you and God you will have riches and health as long as your faith is strong enough.  That's just not true.  The Apostles and early church were among the poorest of the poor.  Even Christ said it's easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven.   The poor clung to Christ while he was alive while the rich shunned him. 

Our relationship with God has nothing to do with our health or our wealth like some of these preachers are saying.  Usually they say these things because they want you to share your wealth with them. 

A preacher told me that's what "abundant life" means. (He wasn't a faith healer.)

Unfortunately it is incredibly difficult to find a preacher who actually preaches the Bible and nothing else.  Basically, you've got imposters who preach things like:

- God wants you to be healthy and wealthy.
- A bigger church with more people and more money is better (these churches generally emphasize having a large number of activities scheduled at all times, so that everyone can "belong").
- God will heal you if you have enough faith.
- God wants you to experience His presence (this is often accompanied by a call to "empty your mind" or to "not be distracted," possibly even with a Buddhist mantra).
- God will bless you if you tithe regularly, and curse you if you don't (this usually goes with the "bigger is better" churches).
- God is in everything, or everything is a part of God (pantheism and panentheism).
- All religions point to the same God.
- Hell is a metaphor for bad karma while on earth, and not a physical place.
- Everyone will go to Heaven, except for a very few really bad people (or rephrased, you will go to Heaven if you're good enough).
- Christians don't sin (big, big, big no-no; if anyone claims they're better than you, they're not Christian, they're narcissistic).

Avoid people who preach these things at all costs!

Yes, I concur! 

In John 10:10 Jesus said:

"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly." 

Jesus was making a contrast.  In context he was speaking about being the true Shephered in comparison to the thieving false shepherds who, like their father, the devil, came only to steal, kill and destroy the sheep.  Jesus came that they may have spiritual and eternal life and have it abundantly.  Anything of the physical nature doesn't compare. 

The word abundantly is "Perissos" and describes something that goes far beyond what is necessary.  The matchless gift of eternal life exceeds all expectations. 

If this preacher was speaking of physical things, he was very mistaken.  Christ didn't care about the physical.  His business was purely spiritual.  He said the physical accounts for nothing (will rust, rot and burn) but the spiritual gives life because it's eternal. 

So there are no rewards for Christians until after death?

Pretty much, unless you count negative rewards like people hating you.

Christians don't see that as negative. They're happy to take the abuse because Jesus said they'll be blessed for it. It strengthens their faith.

How can that be if he was Jewish?

he was quite the unusual Jew...

They do take the abuse because they know it goes with the territory.  But happy?   It's still bothersome and frustrating because we really want the best for the non-believer.   I know Peter says if we're going to glory in suffering we should at least make sure it's for the right things.  We shouldn't be suffering because of our own stupidity but because of the glory of God. 

I think about Elijah who just had quite the day performing a very big miracle.  He called down fire from heaven after the false prophets called upon their own gods unsuccessfully.  Elijah proved that God was real.  But did the people listen?  No, instead he was chased down and hunted so he ran in fear and hid going thru a time of discouragement.   He felt all alone as an outsider.  He had a mountain top experience followed by a deep valley of despair. 

Then I think of Jeremiah who spent his whole life warning his own Jewish brethren of the upcoming exile that was going to happen if they didn't turn from their sins and toward God.  He was spot on proving himself with the power of God, but they wouldn't listen either.  They did all sorts of bad things to Jeremiah trying to shut him up.  He was very frustrated and unhappy.  The exile happened just as he predicted but he felt no vindication or joy.  He was called the weeping prophet never ever seeing one convert in his lifetime.

Thn I think of John the Baptist who had the highest of high jobs that any man could have.  He was the forerunner to the Messiah.  He was His announcer.  John was born for the sole purpose of introducing Christ to the Jews and the world.  After he baptized Christ, soon after, he found himself in jail.  Instead of having a party or parade in his honor for finding the Messiah and introducing him to the Jews, he was beheaded instead. 

Most importantly was Christ, he came to give life to a dying world; he came in love offering us the best gift ever yet he was mocked and hated above all men and sent off to die having committed no crime.  He said if they hate me, they will hate you also. 

So even tho we know this, it doesn't make us happy. ..but it does show us we must be on the right track. 

Isn't that the same as saying their faith wasn't strong enough?

I thought that's where the happy comes in.

Given that and his trade, does that mean he was tacky?

What's that smell?

Heh, to each their own humor.

Be well, ~Alderic