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Ideas for A Complete Conversion Mod

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Ideas for A Complete Conversion Mod

Questions regarding different ideas for a new mod.

from Sins Forums

The topic has changed considerably from the original post so I'm giving a little update (I've left the original post below for anyone interested in how the discussion arose).

This thread discusses different ideas and possibilities for an upcoming mod I'd like to create. As time goes by I'll update it with more details but here is the main overview:

 

The Plot

The first three are the New Earth Order, The First Republic of Earth and the Liberatis. All three factions are fighting over Earth. The Republic was the original global government that set out to colonize worlds as a united race. Recently a Civil war broke out between the ex general, now self proclaimed Empress and the Republic. Since the Republic had lived in relative peace, the sudden attacks by the Empress were quite successful in overwhelming the remanants fo the Republic. Due to a coincidence of events, The Empress fell near fatally ill and the Republic managed to sign a peace agreement.

The Liberatis are a rebels faction who disagreed with this peace agreement and continued to fight in order to free earth from it's imperial masters and even the Republic when they get in the way.

After nearly 5 years of sickness, the Empress is healed; However, this time the Republic has managed to build a fleet to fight back. The three factions continue to strugle over Earth.

Far before the civil war over earth, one of the Republic's expeditions deep into the Milky Way galaxy encountered a sentient Silicon based species (name pending). They would appear as robots to us but are actually considered a life forms with emotions and individual thought. They in a losing battle to their distant cousins though, another silicon race that lives with a hive mentality. They are of one mind and have set out to conquer all the stars.

Against orders from Earth, the expedition fleet managed to help the Silicons in driving the Hive from their home solar system. Enraged by their loss, the Hive attacked the Republic killing millions of people across Human settled planets. To stop the invasion, the Republic withdrew it's support for the Silicons and the expedition fleet. Eventually the Silicons and this fleet would encounter many races under siege by the Hive and help to unite them into one Federation.

 

In this mod I'm hoping to develop a number of changes beyond just the different races. Each race will have a unique style of play based on their story based situation ie. the Rebels will have ships, bases and abilities based on hit and run guerilla warfare. ALso to note, there will be 4 ship sizes, in order of size S->L: Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, Battleships. The cruisers now in sins will be more like the Destroyers in this mod. Cruisers will then be used as a solo war ship to attack behind enemy lines, usually taking on dual roles (sniper/raider, interdictor/tackler, anti ship/building. Battleships will then take on a fleet support role having abilities like the Akkan range bonus. Almost all of their abilities will be area of effect ie. increased damage, fleet heal, weapons jamming etc.

The New Earth Order (N.E.O.)

Fleets will be based on raw force. They will be slow moving heavy hitting ships, mostly battleships, cruisers and some destroyers. Their frigates will be reserved for spreading culture, colonizing and scouting. They will have a strong economy built on slow but strong progression.

Liberatis

Fleets will be be based on speed one hit abilities. They will have fast frigates and destroyers, some cruisers and few battleships. Example of their tactics: cap killing destroyers, these are destroyers that have only one large laser that can only hit capital ships. They will also have an ability that does heavy damage, but with a long recharge time, meaning they will have to jump into a grav well, use their abilities on a capital ship and jump out. Their economy will be based mostly on using non colonizable resources and stealing resources from other races.

The First Republic of Earth

Fleets will be more midranged. They will excel at using cruisers and strike craft (light, medium and heavy carriers). They will have a very strong economy and excel at rapid development of their empire to sustain their fleets.

Federation

A well rounded race using technologies fom all different races. Their main asset will be adaptability due to their wide range of available ships and technologies. Aesthetics, they will be comprised of all different looking ships, except a captial ship fleet that has been designed specifically for the new federation. They will have a strong economy that can change quickly from production to trade.

The Hive

Their fleets will consist of mainley mother ships. They will have no frigate factory and will be completely dependent on their mother ships to generate frigates and destroyers. This race is all about spamming as many ships as possible and overwhelming their foes with numbers. Their economy will excel at producing metal and crystal but will lack the diplomatic capabilities for trade and will have a penalty to credit generation (credits, for canon reason, will be man hours).

Page 5 for more details: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/329761/page/5/#replies

 

Combat Mechanic

Battleships: These will be the heavy hitters that support their fleets through passive ability buffs or area of effect modifiers. ie. an attack battleship might improve damage and rate of fire. A support battleship might improve shield regeneration and mitigation. A electronic warfare battleship might reduce chance to hit on enemy ships and lower their shield mitigation. 

Battleships will do a lot more damage for their costs compared to frigates and destroyers, but have a low chance of hitting them. ie 80 avg dmg (on each side, F,L,R) but 20% chance to hit frigates and destroyers. They will have higher chances of hitting cruisers and battleships ie 80% (cruisers will be built out of capital ship factories to make this work). I'm thinking they may need one gun each that does damage and chance to hit equal to a frigate*

Cruisers: will do have high damage with high chance to hit. ie. 50-60% chance to hit frigates at 50 avg dmg 80% chance to hit battleships and cruisers. They will be faster than battleships but much weaker in structure. Their abilities will be more self centred (gause gun, ion bolt, planet bombardment, shield regen). These ships will be good at raiding behind enemy lines in solo attacks, or hunting down enemy frigates/destroyers in a fleet.

Destroyers: these ships will be support vessels to the battleships. They will be good at killing strikecraft, repairing, hosting small squadrons, They will do low damage but have high chance to hit for their cost ie 5-10 dmg 80% CTH. They will be fairly fast and well armoured/shielded.

Frigates: Frigates will excel at either killing other frigates/destroyers, or infiltrating enemy lines. ie they will have the speed to get into the middle of an enemy fleet and drop an EMP bomb that stops enemy ships from using abilities for x amount of time.. Their damage will be low against battleships and cruisers although with high success of hitting. ie 5-10 dmg 80% CTH.

 

My hope is to create a fleet structure where Battleships are great at killing other battleships and cruisers while being the main support for entire fleets but lacking accuracy enough to kill the smaller ships. Cruisers will be weak to battleship attacks due to their low HP, but excel at killing enemy frigates/destroyers because their guns will be small enough to hit them. Frigates and destroyers will then hopefully do low enough DPS that they won't be able to focus fire kill battleships in an efficient manor but serve their role by killing one another and supporting battleships directly and distrupting enemy fleet abilities.

*This would be to avoid having a battle where battleships can not defend themselves at all versus smaller ships resulting in a complete stale mate. Hopefully having one gun that can hit will make those battles possible but not all that efficient.

 

I'd really like any and all feed back. If you have any ideas that might fit this please share them here.


Cheers!

 

EDIT

These are some links that Relate the topic and discussion below.

Another link for future use

Moving Battles:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/317641/#1941610

Ships Creating other ships:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/330426

Modelling (XSI) and Particle Effects:
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/311916/page/2/#replies

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/305381/page/3/#replies

 Link to Teal's Mod and Research Ideas

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/331735/#1961737

Justin's Mine mod

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/331698

Rescaling in XSI

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/331790

Making Battles more about Fleets rather than a Fleet

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/332389

Modding Pirates

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/332236

Modding Research

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/328126/#1970149

Galaxy Forge stuff

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/174739

Combat Mechanics

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/305565

 StarGates

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/334176

ConvertData

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/320363

         TXT files for Entrenchment

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/334188/#1990795

 

*following is the original post*

 

Hey All, I'm just looking for some feedback from some informed Sins players so that I can then start a modding post and hopefully change the "focus fire" syndrome I experience in most games.

 As I understand now, Shield mitigation climbs the more damage is being delt. After the shield mitigation caps out, all further damage is in essence unrestricted. So if you have 10 ships causing damage and you add another 20, there is no penalty beyond the already maxed shield mitigation. Also, since ships regenerate, any low level damage being dealt to ships is negated.

 What I'm wondering is, if shield and armour regeneration was turned off, would this make spread fire more useful? 

To help direct this thread a bit to the final purpose, modification, I'm gonig to ask this: Is it possible to:

 

A) Turn off ship self regeneration so that repair ships and repair stations can still repair, but ships no longer regenerate. (this is the easiest solution I can think of)

 

B ) Make ships only regenerate when not being attacked.

 

C ) Make ships do less damage when under fire. i.e. if under attack ships damage output is -10%

167,388 views 165 replies
Reply #101 from Sins Forums Top

if u code the ai yourself, u won't have 2 worry to much, just think about every ability and the optimal trigger scenario and code it in.

Reply #102 from Sins Forums Top

Not always that simple Derenek....you'll find that its not always that easy to get bloody AI to use it correctly!!! Takes time, patience and a crapload of Minidumps!! :D LOL!

 

Well im off to work..be back later tonight to see how all of this is advancing and answer more questions :)

Object Desktop - Get all of our enhancement utilities in one suite
Reply #103 from Sins Forums Top

yeah I am on minidump 15 for the day... this is where I usually get frustrated and quit for 2 DAYS...HAHAHA

Reply #104 from Sins Forums Top

Nah when I get frustrated..I open Battlefield 2142 or D&DO Stormreach...play 10 minutes then dive straight back in my ability cus I hate losing my train of thoughts!!! :D   And look what it gave!!! MMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS that now work 100%%%%% (no more of the non exploding bullcrap) !!!

Reply #105 from Sins Forums Top

hey shadow, can u bug the higher ups at alethia to hurry and set up/upload the 3dmeshes for the bsg ships we alredy have done? I think if we both harass them at once they'll do it sooner.

Reply #106 from Sins Forums Top

LOL!! I can try!:D   Don't promise anything though, I'll go say hello to JaggedSparFel!

Reply #107 from Sins Forums Top

Don't forget to yell at newboerg!  He made them after all.

Reply #108 from Sins Forums Top

OK,

 

So on the discussion of Cloaking. Would it be fairly easy to make a cloak like this:

 

Undetectable from ships

Invisible particle effect

Uses antimatter

Stops antimatter regen while in use

Stops weapons while in use

can be turned off at any time

Remains on while jumping and moving (maybe reduced movement?)

 

I'd like to make the raider cruiser for my rebels be able to sneak deep into enemy territory, undetected so it can start ravaging trade routes, buildings and planets. I'll need 2 abilities, 1 for planet bombardment (only kills pop) and 1 for building destruction (only kills buildings) so I'd like to have all that criteria in one Cloak ability.

 

What do you guys think?

Reply #109 from Sins Forums Top

you must set up a specialized ability that has multiple triggered buffs and you'll have to design a particle effect from scratch,so if u got the skillz it would b relatively easy, if not, you should get a team 2gether

Reply #110 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with Derenek

Easiest way would simply to have various abilities like for planet bombardment and all...but if you REALLY want all ine one go..then be ready to have a 14-16 buff long chain!! (and trust me its damn hard for the comp to handle that without issues)! But towards your questions about phase cloaking..it should all be easy to code!

Reply #111 from Sins Forums Top

Oh, i mean it would have 3 abilities: planet bombardment, building destruction and cloaking. Cloaking would encompass all those things i listed while the bombardment and building destroyer would be separate.

Reply #112 from Sins Forums Top

Then yes..shouldnt be too much of an issue :)!

Reply #113 from Sins Forums Top

Well It seems like the vast majority of my ideas are very do-able, thanks for all the support so far guys!

 

There might be some AI issues with a the Rebels and Hive, but hopefully we can find a work around on that.

 

What I'm concerned about now is the balance and play of the game.  One of the major flaws I find with sins is that no matter the changes that are made, there seems to be 2 main issues. First is that all the factions seem to be clones of one another with different stats. Second, there always seems to be a balance issue in that one ship is able to overcome all other ships including it's counter.  I'd like to solve this by creating factions that are based on a broad strategy and re-engineering the battlesystem. 

 

This is what I envision:

*note: in my mod there will be 4 types of ships, Battleships, cruisers, destroyers and frigates. The cruiser of vanilla sins will be equal to destroyers in the mod, cruisers would be equal to battlecruisers in sins. To learn more on this, skip to the bottom.

Empire: This will be the slow moving tank. Mostly made up of battleship sand cruisers with some destroyers and only utility frigates. Their ships will be solid in structure and powerful in armament. Their strategy will be slow and steady much like a turtler but not so defensive.

Strengths
ships, structures and planets will have heavy armour and guns. Strong planetary defenses to support their ships in defense.

Weaknesses

Their ships will be slow to move and slow to jump. Guarding their vast territory will have to be done with many fleets scattered across their planets.

5 battleships, 3 cruisers, 3 destroyers, 3-4 frigates. (colonizer, culture spreader scout, tackler if needed)

Republic: Medium in speed and based on the strike craft. Their ships won't be as strong nor as slow as the empire, but will have similarities due to their similar origins. They will have both light, medium and heavy carriers that work not only as launch bays but as fleet supports. Their fleets will revolve around keeping their carriers alive.

Strengths

Attacks will be fast and losses will cost less resources as they will be mostly in strike craft. Strong planetary defenses. Fleets will be able to move between planets fairly well.

Weaknesses

Ships are weaker in design and lack the raw power found in the Empire. Fleets will be strongly dependent on the survival of their carriers.

3 battleships, 4 cruisers, 3 destoyers 4 frigates (scout, Electronic warfare frigate, assault frigate and colonizer)

Federation: They will be based on a strategy of adaptability. They will have more ships at their disposal than the other factions but at a slightly higher cost. This will be a faction with few apparent weaknesses and strengths. It will be all about producing fleets that counter the circumstances of the fight.

Strengths

Build rates of ships will be faster than other factions. Wide assortment of ships to allow changes in tactics and strategy more easily.

Weaknesses

Ship costs will be higher than other factions.

4 battleships, 4 cruisers, 4 destroyers 4 frigates (possibly 1 more destroyers/frigate if needed)

These three factions above will be highly dependent on their economies to support their fleets. They will receive bonuses from research to help develope their economies to be more efficient especially trade.

The Hive: This is the zerg spam style faction. It will be about moving production facilities (their motherships) directly into or very near their enemies and producing mass amounts of frigates to deal damage to their enemies. They will have few types of ships, that will be produced very quickly and very cheaply. Their economy I'm hoping to make completely dependent on crystal and metal possibly elminating credits all together for this race. I've even thought (credit to Justin S. for his brilliant idea and mod for the Nephil) of making them use no resources at all.

Strengths

Build rates will be high and cheap and also mobile

Weaknesses

Excluding motherships, their vessels will be quite dispensible and lacking specialization

4 motherships 5 destroyers and 5 frigates (most ships will be designed as damage dealers with 1 scout and 1 repair bot as an exception)

Rebels: This faction will be about guerilla warfare. Their ships will excel at speed, maneuverability and damage, but lack structural integrity. I'd like to design them in a way that they can stay functional with only a few or even a single planet under control. Some ideas will be early pirate raids (like the TEC uprising research at level 7?, but make it available at like level 2). They will also excel at espionage. Their ships and buildings will have clairvoyance and probes so that they can have a lot of info on enemy numbers and strategy. Their economy will be severly lacking though. They will have few resource bonuses and will have to acquire many of their resources from piracy (with the piracy ability to steal credits) taking advantage of neutral gravity wells (mobile platforms) and constantly harrassing enemy trade routes and resource structures.

Strengths

Fast, maneuverable ships that deal heavy damage. Very efficient espionage abilities that allow them visuals on enemy movements and planets.

Weaknesses

Severly lacking in economic performance. Ships will not be able to stand toe to toe with other factions.

2 battleships (1 unlockable through research), 3 cruisers 5 destroyers 5 frigates

 

The second flaw I find with sins is the in balance with fleets. There always seems to be one ship that if spammed can outkill all other ships regardless of their class.

I'd like to solve this by creating a system where ship classes will serve a purpose and will have difficulty performing tasks outside that purpose.

 

Battleships: These will be the heavy hitters that support their fleets through passive ability buffs or area of effect modifiers. ie. an attack battleship might improve damage and rate of fire. A support battleship might improve shield regeneration and mitigation. A electronic warfare battleship might reduce chance to hit on enemy ships and lower their shield mitigation. 

Battleships will do a lot more damage for their costs compared to frigates and destroyers, but have a low chance of hitting them. ie 80 avg dmg (on each side, F,L,R) but 20% chance to hit frigates and destroyers. They will have higher chances of hitting cruisers and battleships ie 80% (cruisers will be built out of capital ship factories to make this work). I'm thinking they may need one gun each that does damage and chance to hit equal to a frigate*

Cruisers: will do have high damage with high chance to hit. ie. 50-60% chance to hit frigates at 50 avg dmg 80% chance to hit battleships and cruisers. They will be faster than battleships but much weaker in structure. Their abilities will be more self centred (gause gun, ion bolt, planet bombardment, shield regen). These ships will be good at raiding behind enemy lines in solo attacks, or hunting down enemy frigates/destroyers in a fleet.

Destroyers: these ships will be support vessels to the battleships. They will be good at killing strikecraft, repairing, hosting small squadrons, They will do low damage but have high chance to hit for their cost ie 5-10 dmg 80% CTH. They will be fairly fast and well armoured/shielded.

Frigates: Frigates will excel at either killing other frigates/destroyers, or infiltrating enemy lines. ie they will have the speed to get into the middle of an enemy fleet and drop an EMP bomb that stops enemy ships from using abilities for x amount of time.. Their damage will be low against battleships and cruisers although with high success of hitting. ie 5-10 dmg 80% CTH.

 

My hope is to create a fleet structure where Battleships are great at killing other battleships and cruisers while being the main support for entire fleets but lacking accuracy enough to kill the smaller ships. Cruisers will be weak to battleship attacks due to their low HP, but excel at killing enemy frigates/destroyers because their guns will be small enough to hit them. Frigates and destroyers will then hopefully do low enough DPS that they won't be able to focus fire kill battleships in an efficient manor but serve their role by killing one another and supporting battleships directly and distrupting enemy fleet abilities.

*This would be to avoid having a battle where battleships can not defend themselves at all versus smaller ships resulting in a complete stale mate. Hopefully having one gun that can hit will make those battles possible but not all that efficient.

 

So what do you guys think? If implemented right would it solve some of the issues I've brought up without creating too many more?

 

Most importantly, would it be fun?

 

Do you guys have any suggestions that might help out?  

 

Please feel free to critique (nicely!) as great ideas are only great if they can hold to the scrutiny of our peers and if I debate it is only to solve the issue and develope new ideas.

Reply #114 from Sins Forums Top

I'm in on it! You convinced me...when do we start ;)!!

LOL

Reply #115 from Sins Forums Top

hehehe well I'm working on gettin everything together right now. I'm looking for some writers to flesh out some good ideas and build up a bit of interest. Next I'll have to start looking for recruits, anyone willing to help out with codding and modeling. From the sounds of it modeling is going to takeup the most time. :(

 

Anyone else have any input on my above post?  I'd like to get some feedback from the gamers out there so I can really get a grasp of the best formula for this mod.

 

Thanks!

 

p.s. Any Artists out there willing to work with me and some of the writers to get some visual representation out? 

Reply #116 from Sins Forums Top

*pick me, pick me!!!

LOL! I do modeling AND codding :) 2 for one special! (can't texture though but Kiedjor can) ;)

Reply #117 from Sins Forums Top

LOL! you were already in before you knew it! HAHA you've helped out so much already.

 

We'll see how your guys' mods are coming along. I don't want to overburden anyone. It would be nice to have some specialization though. If we get a couple good modellers, coders, and have a few people that do texturing we could probably get through those models fairly quickly.

I've seen some good work by other modders on here too, maybe I'll be able to get them involved too!

Reply #118 from Sins Forums Top

OK SWEET!!!

PS: I'm done studying for tonight..might kick my ass and try to finish my final 3-4 ships for my Nephils :)!!! So I can send them off to balancing!

Which just by looking at 'em now, theyll NEED A LOT!!! LOL

 

Cheers,

Justin S.

Reply #119 from Sins Forums Top

Would it be possible to make a stargate? In other words a phase gate that works between planets in different solar systems?

Reply #120 from Sins Forums Top

Its already in game known as a phase gate...you just switch the name and mesh and you'll have yourself a stargate!

Reply #121 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, but I want them to work between planets in different solar systems. Between stars!

Reply #122 from Sins Forums Top

Why did Annatar stop responding to this thread? :(

Reply #123 from Sins Forums Top

I TOOK OVER!!!!!

Annatar is locked up :)

Reply #124 from Sins Forums Top

Ok, new idea.

 

Would it be possible to create ship abilities that increase production of neutral nodes and planets?

 

I'd like to create a "mining barge" or something to that effect that has three unique abilities, Increase build speed in gravity well, increase credit income (trade or taxes or both) and increase crystal + metal extraction.

Is there a way to create passive or active abilities that could achieve this?

Reply #125 from Sins Forums Top

I've been semi-busy at the end of last week. That, and ShadowMastiff finally let me out.

Would it be possible to create ship abilities that increase production of neutral nodes and planets?

As far as I remember, the Advent trade post's "turn into refinery" ability should do quite well for this. It increases resource extraction in its grav well, I don't see why it wouldn't work on neutrals as well and since it's an ability it should do just peachy on a ship.

Did I miss anything else?