ahahahhahaha....
we are what, second in the world for tourism!!!
and we have NOTHING here to see except the lady o' liberty and the grand canyon.
and even if you were right (which you are so wrong its funny)
pet care and food industry
coin minting and electroplating industry
diamond industry
and!!!
we've grown to beat spain in the last few years.

thank you, try again.

as a side note: yes I'm being insulting. but I'm tired. so you can blame it on the fact that I'm too lazy to edit my post.
seriously this will be fun (I should try to up the ante  but I risk going too far.)

so I'm going to bed. cya.

Europe has this one thing the US is lacking in increasing ammounts.

money

US economy is one hugely inflated bubble of air. It's all powered by european money. If "the old world" pulls it's money out, your precious world dominating power would come crashing down like a deck of cards.
You realise you own a total of 10.4 trillion dollars (that's 1.000.000.000.000 dollars) to foreigners (mostly europeans)

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second thing europe has is Knowledge

hightech industry and knowledge of how to use it and other high-tech application lie mostly with us europeans.

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Third thing we have you need is raw materials
Half fabricates and raw resources have been near the top of the US import list since before world war 2, some from asia but most half fabricates come from the EU.

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So, without europe, the US would crumble to neigh nothing. Without the US we would have to suffice without corn, wheat and beef.

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On a side note, I'd like to add that we, the dutch, are worlds greatest vegetable exporter, and we have the highest "food per laborer" output in the world, even though only 2% of the population works in the food industry. If dutch farming techniques were applies throughout the world, we would each have over 7 kilo's of food per day. (you non-vegetarians being less productive, because of feeding good food to cows and then eating the cows)

oh so wrong.

we have way more per capita than they do.

no, you have this backwards
we are THEIR biggest investors, our biggest investors are the chinese.
if they pulled our money, yeah, it'd hurt. but then we'd pull ours and EU would collapse.

how come we have the top 3 colleges in the world in addition to most of the remaining top 20?
as for tech I haven't heard of a big tech-based industry in EU for a long long time. the best I've heard are a bunch of smaller software creating groups.

they're also at the top of our export list.
we are the worlds biggest producer of raw precious metals and ores. we are something around fourth in oil mining and we are right at the top of synthesis as well.
we could easily subside on what we have.

ok, this is completely wrong. this is oversimplification of our industry to its largest pieces
I've reiterated before, I'll do it again: we are the worlds largest producer of normal foods (I.e. non exotic) but we are also in the top 3-4 of most other industries. thats something NO OTHER COUNTRY can claim

its extremely hard for a country without our demographic and geographic diversity (of which we are the only ones of such diversity) to compete in our economy, hence why we are the richest power in the world
and also the "hyperpower"
the EU is a huge part of the economy, to be sure. but there are so many things they cannot do for themselves, not the least of which is food production, raw materials and organic and nonorganic substance synthesis.
and oil.
if EU pulled any of its markets they would only result in tripping themselves up, nothing more. our economy is not so dependant on them such that we would be at significant risk. it would hurt our economy, but the only thing that could kill our economy (and therefore collapse the worlds) would be if china withdrew its funds, in which case everyones (theirs to) economy would collapse

and as a last point to emp.
tourism isn't a real international industry, the production of toys and aviation sure, but not tourism itself.

starting at the bottom


of course it is, that one is meant in jest




no, those aren't the top colleges, they're merely the most well knows. But what i meant mostly is the fact that almost all of the advanced components in the worlds products come from europe. 90 something percent of all modern materials are produced in europe (think A-grade titanium, Dyneema etc)



That's odd, because the intire EU's debt (we don't have trade defecist) is only about 64% of the total GBP (which includes countries like Bulgaria and Slovenia, whereas the total debt of the USA (including trade shortages) would come to about 80something percent of GBP. And that is merely state debt, we're not even counting the money private US companies are getting from Europe. Where most investements made by US are in China (which is not part of the EU)

Example, You're importing 800 billion more then exporting, where the EU is far more balanced at 50billion.

[quote]we have way more per capita than they do.[quote]
True, you are technically correct. Though when looking at the GDP per capita of the lowest 99% your rating drops immensely. (did you know 1% of the people hold over 35% of the money in the USA? Equality my foot) Also, the EU is larger then the main sources of money (mostly banks and pension funds in western europe) and their the 99percentile GDP is far higher then the 27.000 averange for the EU.

Because of the more even distribution of wealth, a lot more money is brought to the bank or to other savings methods, which leads to far more investible wealth then in the USA. Savings per capita in the USA are hard to determine but are estimated a "A few thousand dollars over the populace" which again includes the richest 1%. Savings per capita if (for example) France are estimated at 64.000 to 80.000 Euro



Also, Oil imports:
At your current rate of consumption, If all oil would have to come from proven national sources, you would last for a grand total of a year and half.

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Wow, an economics debate in a thread on Quantum computing on a forum of an RTS....

Harvard, MIT, and caltech are not just "well known"
they have been repeatedly rated the best.

about as impressive as producing potato chips.
just because you make it doesnt mean you own it

and howcome if china produces 90% of these things (ala emp) how can EU produce 90% of these things (ala alkari)
you two figure this one out.

ah the classical misunderstanding of debt
go find out what a "rolling debt" is and then come back.
if you already know what this is then you wouldn't be pointing this out.
and trust me, taht "debt" is mostly to china. whereas EUs is mostly to us.

that means your not growing...
we import massive amounts for two reasons: 1) you need to import to grow (800 billion is nothing) what your pointing out only supports my arguement
2) our country "exports" things that we later "import", most of this occurs thru trade events (I give you metal, you create my coins) etc.
trust me on this. my whole family is in finance, I think I'd know.
and there is nothing "balanced" about your 50 bil. keep in mind that the EU isn't a nation, its a continent. if you want to add it up you guys are doing subsidiary imports that would amount to over 800 bill and much smaller net growth imports
most american imports are net growth imports.

yes, they are called buisnesses.
these "statistics" are highly qualitative and innacurate. dont bring these "tidbits" to me. from the way you look at it your answer can range from 10% (private estate) to 95% (property of everyone cascaded below)

our GDP for the average income person (not the average income) is still in the order of a half dozen grand higher than in the EU.

wrong. completely
true, we do have a rather large amount of people who cannot afford to invest, but those men on top do plenty of investing (if your buying back your own stock, you know it.) and it provides a much more fluid and profitable system than the EU's "even distribution" method. sure you can whine about the people who didnt finish high school, but thats their fault.

true. but thats got nothing to do with it.
guess what the EU has for oil? almost nothing. its true that the far east has more than enough, but we dominate their industry for refinement etc. so we'd still have a stronghold on that (where would they go to refine???) them pulling out is unlikely, their only other source would be China, which again would collapse.

For the first time ever, will I have to use qoutes.

Okay, lets beggin. Since Akari is on my side, I will take apart your post Schem.

First of


These are specialized colleges. All around they are not the best, the colleges in Europe are actually less speciallized an over staff that has good knowledge of all subject.

Plus can you please tell me what Harvard is best at?

Next,

When have you ever heard me say China produces 90% of these things. The most I ever said is that about 70% of our imports come from that country, and that it outmanufactures us in quite a few areas. Toys, technology, cars, food. O yes, did i forget to tare down your little, we are the Breadbasket theory. Wrong, we havent been that since the 1800s, China actually has more crop land, a lot more of it. However, because they actually have more people to support, they cant really export any of it.

Oh and this?


Um, as far as I know we have alraedy grown. We are a developed country, and as far as I know developed coutnries export more than they import. Just look at most of the charts. The fact that a country that is what 5 in size in the entire world cant support 300 million people is kind of sad.

And heres the fact on wealth breakdowns. Okay 98% of public wealth in the US rest with only 8% of it citizens. NOT bussiness, indviduals. Why? Because, the bussiness men of this country have finally found a way to make money by dodging A LOT of taxes, and minimal wage restrictions, by moving to other coutnries.

And as for banking and investment, Akari is right. The wealth of the world is still in Europe. There are accounts in Europe that are so old that if they were closed and all the money taken out it would probably inflate the worlds money supply and cause a severe depresion. So most of these accounts have been liquified over the years by the government, and made virtually worthless. Still, most of the worlds money is in Europe, the have the best in banking and investment. Plus, they have less restrictive laws allowing a lot of 'over seas' accounts to prosper.

Now according to many laws, banks can be nationalized, which means all their assests could be liquified. Which means that in the end, the money of the world could be taken away, if the Europeans wanted to do it.

Plus here another fact, we cant even produce technology to produce our own money. Almost all of it is made by Sweeden. I find that particullarly funny.

YOU DIDNT JUST SAY THAT!!!
china is mostly mountain, it has very VERY little crop land. you wow me with this, their only viable crop land are the coast. the mountains and plateaus are WAY TOO DRY to be viable crop land. (of course they can SUBSIST, but they dont have enough to export)
no, bad emp. go away, shoo, bad bad bad.

colleges are designed for the specific reason of being specialized. no college should be "well rounded" it simply isnt good.
so you support my point, thank you.

law school. amongst other things. I told you this was a tricky subject.

what was taht whole thing about "they create our circuit boards and our plasma screen tvs"?
like I said, this only proves taht they are our market-bitches. they manufacture for (guess who!) us.

you dont just stop growing...
especially buisnesses.

we are huge exporters, our export market is freaking massive.
and besides, that still isnt an indicator, undeveloped countries also export massively. if anything grown countries ahve smaller export markets.

what are you talking about... we support ourselves perfectly fine, in fact much better as per all of the data we have.

I SAID THESE ARE USELESS!!!
they are wrong and subjective, not to mention twisted by word of mouth. dont bring these to me they are only "correct" under specified conditions

YOU
DONT
KNOW
THAT
thank you very much. your not god, and you dont have all answers. not to mention you cannot specify either your source, or even what your source was talking about.

and then why is a whole continent poorer than my puny little country of 300 million people?
your creating a conflicting arguement. under these circumstances your countries' wealth would be highly malproportionate, especially if a few bank funds can inflate world currency

the best banks of the world are in Japan, thank you very much.
as for your liquified etc. first, find me a source on this. second, why the HELL would they do taht, they would just leak the money out bit by bit and prosper on it rather than make it go away
and obviously the money is not all in europe if Europe has jus barely over America's economy in a total of 20+ nations. I'm sorry but your arguement is based on a self-destructive government, which isn't what the EU is.

you mean the printing... uh... nope
we have more than sufficient tech to create our money, we just make profit by selling sweden our paper and ink for them to sell back to us as cash.

uh, no...
again, most big banks are based in, big shocker, japan, not Europe. Europe has some nice laws that allow the funds to be untracable, making them nice for smuggling and some really big buisnesses but in the end most of the money is in Japan, where their laws protect it and allow its easy free movement.

I dont know how to break down your arguement more, your basing it off completely false points.

wait a second... are you talking about pre modern funds???
those have been liquidated BECAUSE THEY AREN'T WORTH ANYTHING
the world's currency has since switched from a gold based to trust-based money. those funds are liquidated because they aren't worth jack. they cant do jack jack jack to a market. for gods sake they cant to jack to jack.

The fact that you prove things by just stating that I dont know something is foolish beyond belief.

Where is YOUR proof Schem, as far as I have known, all you have been doing is writing a bunch of capital lettr answer and bitching about the fact that I dont know something.

What do you know? Hm... all you ever keep spewing out at me is propoganda you either picked up at school or online. Where is the person inside, where is the opinion?

then state some reliable facts! dont do stupid things like say, claim that china is the breadbasket of the world. I'm still recovering from that.

unfortunately sources in this debate are difficult, I cant exactly find spreadsheets showing you all I need. at least It would be difficult to find them.

right... propoganda that I get from spending hours passively viewing world economy, yes that propoganda. and let me ask where you got the very very wrong idea that the European resevoirs can cause massive inflation (although they aren't worth jack) or say that China is a larger exporter of bread and wheats etc. than we are.

hey, there's nothing wrong with capital letters.

All I have to say is... get a life

hey
I find that fun. dont collapse to an ad hominem arguement now.

I am not, I just dont see this arguement as 'interesting' any more.

I still dont see why you backed down from my challenge... if what you say is true it should have been really easy for you to win.

ummmm wasnt this forum about quantum computers how did we end up with the chinese food industry

because some people LOVE throwing little tidbits in like

I wonder who this is...

Um, I meant the computers, but I guess people think I am going to rule the world

well you played to it.

: POUT : (prays for the smiley)

and I actually liked this topic.

When someone actually decides to be randomly funny, I go along with it. Why is that so wrong?

because it treads on my thread. no one treads on my threads!

I have and I also did so with little opposition from you.

a step closer to reality
first controllably coupled qubits

Multi, I never knew you were a thread necro?

Ahh... I remember this thread, the great discussions we had. Its was sad to see it die, but I guess theres a price for not arguing.

yeah, it happens but i thought it was better to out it here, where-there-were (now why do this 3 word sound funny to me? im sleepy?) a good discussion about the subject.




Now start arguing... about the topic