MasonM MasonM

Hey Lady, Control Your Brats

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Hey Lady, Control Your Brats

from JoeUser Forums
Ok, I know I'm tired and my back, hip, and leg hurt like crazy so I'm a little (read a lot) less patient than normal. Ok, crabby.

I walked (hobbled) into the truckstop to get something to eat. As my cash is running low I decided to get something cheap from the chicken place inside. I stood in line, ordered my food, and was waiting for it to be ready when these two women came in with 6 kids ranging in age (guessing) from about 5 to maybe 9 or 10. And these kids were obviously very wound up.

They were jumping, yelling, hopping up on the counter, playing with the soda fountain, and basically running amok. I could tell that I wasn't the only person standing there that was getting annoyed by these heathens. The two women were making no real effort to control these brats at all. One of them, a boy who looked about 7 or 8, in the process of running amok stepped upon my sandaled toes (bad leg of course). This tore it for me.

I snagged him by the shoulder and told him in my deepest carries-for-miles voice that he just stepped on my toes and that maybe it would be a good idea if he went over there (pointing to a chair) and sat down before someone got hurt. At this point one of the women apologized to me while I glared at her and the two women hearded up the brats (looked like cat hearding for a moment) and made them all sit down. One of the other drivers standing there came me a subtle thumbs up after the little monsters were seated.

After a couple of moments one of the kids started to get up and I glared over at her. The kid I fussed at quickly grabbed her and made her sit back down. I couldn't hear what he said to her as he was whispering, but I can well imagine.

I don't really dislike kids, but I seriously dislike parents that allow their kids to go wild in a public place and disturb other people. It really makes me want to grab a belt and beat the parent's ass.

Neither woman looked me in the eye the rest of the time I was waiting for my food.
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Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
As a parent, I would have little sympathy for you then Tova. If your kids are running around out of control you gave up responsibility BEFORE they even ran into the person.


Your definition of running around and out of control may not be the same as everyone else's. I'd submit someone with no kids has a much lower tolerance and braoder definition than someone who has three.

For example, I have two great girl friends with five kids each.

Five children, even well behaved, generate more noise, more movement, more accidents and more misbehavior (when it occurs) than my two. When I am with them it seems chaotic because I am used to only my two kids. But my girl friends don't find it chaotic at all.

I can't tell you how many times I am out with them eating and the kids are all talking...not yelling, just talking about this and that...and people give them dirty looks. Like children should be seen and not heard. That's ridiculous.

Children are just as much a part of society as you or me...when we go out into that society we should expect to run into them and ~gasp~ sometimes run smack into their problems, behaviors, attitudes, knowledge etc..

Now if I teach my kids not to interrupt adults when they talk, but you let your kids do it. Do I have the right to grab them by the shoulder and tell them in a harsh tone not to interrupt me or someone might get hurt?

I would have done the same thing as Mason and would be happy to explain proper parenting to any parent that had an issue of me putting the fear of god into their kid for being out of control in a public place


HAHAHAHA. Well first of all if anybody I don't know grabs my kid, they won't get a chance to talk to me about parenting because they will be fending me off physically. Look, you have a problem with my kid and I am there....you tell me. Don't put your hands on my child. Ever. I will be more than happy to accommodate you in most cases.

So I don't tend to feel sorry for the weak parents who let their kids run around wild because they are too lazy to reign them in


You are assuming everyone has the same parenting methods you do. Not everyone does.

Look, I am NOT defending the kids at the truck stop. I don't like my kids to act that way, so naturally I don't like other kids to do it either. But I am not so presumptuous as to believe I have the right to place my hands on someone else's child because they are not behaving in the way I think they should.

It's tough being the bad guy and I tend to have a bit of resentment to parents (particularly moms because they are by far more guilty of this) who just want to focus on making their kids happy in the short term even as it ruins them in the long term.


Maybe moms are more guilty because of the QUANTITY of time they spend with their kids. Just like the more you drive, the more opportunity for accidents.

Blame the parents, blame the kids, blame whoever you want. Just keep your hands to yourself.
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
If kids are running around like crazy and the parent does nothing to stop them, or even reprimand them, what are the rest of us to do? I ask this especially in the case of eating out at a restaurant...


What is "running around like crazy?"

Is it not sitting on the chair but standing next to it leaning over it?

Is it running up and down the isles?

If you really believe its out of line the SAY SOMETHING TO THE ADULT. I do it all the time....I say things like, "Hi. I was wondering if you could ask your son not to run up and down the isles. It is disturbing my meal."

IF they don't do anything, talk with the manager...I've done that too. They will ask them to control their kids or leave.

Many take Tova's stance that no one can touch their child (which I honestly understand) and extend it to no one can even so much as tell their child to behave, as if I was suddenly stepping on their toes and infringing on their parental duties (which they were completely uninterested in just moments prior).


HAHAHAHAHA. I know what you are talking about here...but that is not me. I will get mad if someone just goes off on my kid for something I allow them to do. For example, my oldest play soccer. We (my 3 year old and I)went to his soccer game and he got bored.

So I got the soccer ball out of the van and let him kick it around in an empty area by the field. A woman started saying something to him but I couldn't hear her...so I walked over and she was saying..."Don't play there! You are distracting the people who want to watch the game! Where are your parents?"

Meaning he was distracting HER because she chose to park (illegally) in the field and not in the parking lot and lift her hatch on the SUV and sit in it. This put my son playing with his ball close to her vehicle. She didn't like that and talked ugly to my son.

I told her to shut her face, then I PLAYED ball with him right in front of the bitch.

He wasn't hurting anyone, disturbing the game in anyway, or doing anything against the soccer field rules. Yet, I guarantee when she tells the story he was some misbehaving little brat.

Does she have the right to physically grab my child because she doesn't like what he is doing? HELL NO.

Having kids does not give someone the right to annoy everyone around them without consequence.


I agree for the most part...but then some people are just too easily annoyed. And I refuse to make my kids miserable because adults can't control their tempers.

It's the ones who ignore it, sit idly by, that I will not stand.


Again, I agree. Usually a word or two to the parents takes care of everything nicely.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
We have a longstanding rule: the kids act up in a public place, they're out of there! One parent finishes things up, the other parent takes the offending kid.


Not everyone has that luxury Gid.

I am often alone in a new place and don't know anyone well enough to leave my kids with. I won't just leave my kids with anyone, I have to know them very very well.

When one of my kids are not feeling well and we are out of groceries...that's too bad...I have to drag them to the store. Yes, I know they will whine and I know my youngest may start yelling. I deal with it, but I am sure there are people who think...shesh, just take him home.

I guess to put a fine point on it...we can't judge everyone else by our parenting standards....well we can judge them but when we place our hands on their kids..we just crossed the line..big time.

I don't know that kid, that parent. I don't know what happened five minutes ago with them or five minutes after I leave.

That kid didn't know Mason's hip hurt...didn't know he was grouchy...no more than Mason knows if that kid has a hyperactive disorder, bad parents, or was just let out of the trunk of a car.

That's an awful lot of 'ifs' to make a reasonable decision to put my hands on someone else's kid.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
My personal tolerance level is actually very high. In movies, kids have to be actively distracing me by kicking my chair, throwing stuff, or talking so loud that I can not hear the film. In restarurants it's when I can not easily hear what the person across from me is saying because of yelling kids. If it's background noise, I'm fine with it... I know kids are fairly loud by their nature, and I let it slide knowing that they just don't know better. One area I draw the line at very quickly though are kids running around a crowded place and almost tripping me (not talking about when they're trying to catch up to mom/dad, but when they're just running around uncontrolled.)

In the case of Mason grabbing the kid, it was a bit different than your kid playing soccer not touching or getting in anyone's way. No one here is talking about grabbing your kid and shaking them because they're loud. There are degrees to every situation and response.

And as to talking to the parents who are ignoring their kids misdeeds... my experience is they come just as unglued, and the kids keep misbehaving. Typically when I've gotten stern with misbehaving kids, they at least calm down somewhat while the parent goes ape-shit.
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
That kid didn't know Mason's hip hurt...didn't know he was grouchy...no more than Mason knows if that kid has a hyperactive disorder, bad parents, or was just let out of the trunk of a car


Doesn't matter. Children CAN be taught BASIC courteousy, and, while a little acting up can be normal, the activity he describes is NOT normal.

If the kid had a hyperactive disorder, the mother should have been aware of that in entering the store. She could have/should have worked with his behaviour in such places. I have worked with SEVERELY developmentally disabled adults whose activities would put those of these children to shame, and have been able to teach them behaviour appropriate for settings such as this.

I think you can tell more about a child's behaviour by how a parent responds to it. If it WAS simply a hyperactive disorder, the mother would probably have been somewhat embarassed and apologetic; even a milquetoast mother with aggressive children who TRIES to do something, no matter how little, gets points for the possible reasons you mention.

I still stand by my opinion that there is no excuse for completely uncontrolled behaviour by these children. If they've done it once, parents should be proactive in doing things to prevent it from happening the next time they go out. Role play, remind the child as your entering the store...heck, even if the parents offer bribes, they are at least doing SOMETHING to modify the behaviour. I am sure that your children are not the sort of children Mason's talking about.
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
My personal tolerance level is actually very high. In movies, kids have to be actively distracing me by kicking my chair, throwing stuff, or talking so loud that I can not hear the film.


HAHAHA. You're right....that's WAY more tolerant than I am.....if its a kids movie though I don't usually care...but if its an adult movie I speak up.

In restarurants it's when I can not easily hear what the person across from me is saying because of yelling kids.


I agree. Adults who drag kids to "real" resteraunts should make them behave. I tell my kids, "People don't pay lots of money to eat here AND listen to your mouth. They just want to eat."

In the case of Mason grabbing the kid, it was a bit different than your kid playing soccer not touching or getting in anyone's way.


Yeah, but the premise was the same. She thought I was bad parenting and was probably concerned he'd hit her SUV with the ball. I don't think either situation calls for hands on action by a stranger.

my experience is they come just as unglued, and the kids keep misbehaving. Typically when I've gotten stern with misbehaving kids, they at least calm down somewhat while the parent goes ape-shit.


Wow. Really? I have not seen that....maybe because I am a mom and when I ask them to control their kids they figure it must be pretty bad for another mom to actually say something...haha.

I don't know what to tell you...except I still wouldn't recommend the hands on approach.
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
I still stand by my opinion that there is no excuse for completely uncontrolled behaviour by these children


I am not disputing their behavior was wrong. Didn't mean it to sound like that...the point is we can't just go around grabbing kids we don't know because they do things we don't like.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top

wow this got pretty hot and heavy.,. good subject and lots of good and differing answers.

"kids! cannot live with them" Cannot deep freeze them till they are ready for college"

Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top

HAHAHAHA. Well first of all if anybody I don't know grabs my kid, they won't get a chance to talk to me about parenting because they will be fending me off physically. Look, you have a problem with my kid and I am there....you tell me. Don't put your hands on my child. Ever. I will be more than happy to accommodate you in most cases.

It would be a mistake for you to lash out physically at a stranger. I know I wouldn't hesitate to do what was necessary to subude some hysterical parent. 

I have a very high threshold of pain when it comes to out of control kids. I have 2 small children with another on the way. I am quite familiary with problematic children.  But if I'm at an outting of some kind and children are behaving in a completely out of control manner to where they are physically disruptive to me, I would have no hesistancy to grab one by the arm and tell them to be careful or to sit down.  And if the mother, at that point, decided to discover her parenting expertise and make a fuss I would be more than happy to discuss it. And if she went beyond that, that would be her mistake.

You are assuming everyone has the same parenting methods you do. Not everyone does.

Look, I am NOT defending the kids at the truck stop. I don't like my kids to act that way, so naturally I don't like other kids to do it either. But I am not so presumptuous as to believe I have the right to place my hands on someone else's child because they are not behaving in the way I think they should.

I don't care what other parents do or don't do with their kids unless their not doing anything affects me or my family.  It's as simple as that. Your rights end where mine begins.  Your child's rights end where my child's rights begin. And so forth.  If a parent is allowing their kid to run around being unruly and that child ends up physically disrupting what me or my family is doing, I'm going to step in.

If it's the case Mason was in where the out of control children physically bumped into him or at a movie theater where the child is kicking the chair or on an airplane, where the kid is pushing on your chair from behind there are various levels (non-physical) in which the adult should feel free to intervene.

Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top

Not everyone has that luxury Gid.

I am often alone in a new place and don't know anyone well enough to leave my kids with. I won't just leave my kids with anyone, I have to know them very very well.

When one of my kids are not feeling well and we are out of groceries...that's too bad...I have to drag them to the store. Yes, I know they will whine and I know my youngest may start yelling. I deal with it, but I am sure there are people who think...shesh, just take him home.

I guess to put a fine point on it...we can't judge everyone else by our parenting standards....well we can judge them but when we place our hands on their kids..we just crossed the line..big time.

I don't know that kid, that parent. I don't know what happened five minutes ago with them or five minutes after I leave.

That kid didn't know Mason's hip hurt...didn't know he was grouchy...no more than Mason knows if that kid has a hyperactive disorder, bad parents, or was just let out of the trunk of a car.

That's an awful lot of 'ifs' to make a reasonable decision to put my hands on someone else's kid.

I'm sorry Tova but from what you are saying all I can say is "Well BOO HOO."

IF you can't control your kids, remove them from the scene. Otherwise people will be annoyed.  Your story about antagonizing the lady who asked your child (who by your own admission was far enough away in which you could not even hear what they were saying to your child) to play somewhere else and ending in you intentionally trying to annoy "the bitch" does not make you look good. Kids learn from their parents.

Other people have problems as well but they deal with them. A child whining or being bratty is one thing. A public temper tantrum or behaving in such a way in which they are physically disrupting the activities of others requires responsible parents to take effective action.

I know you from your other writings and blogs so I know you're a fine person and I'm sure a wonderful parent. But when you keep saying "Well not everyone can do X" and then you personally present an example of you behaving in a malicious manner it certainly gives the impression (to me anyway) that perhaps the reason you may have problems with your kids is that they have seen you be malicious and find that acceptable behavior.

Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
It would be a mistake for you to lash out physically at a stranger.


No, the mistake would be for a stranger (an adult)to physically grab my child. Everything after that is a direct result of that adults poor choice...or in most states CRIME.

Every state I've EVER lived in, physically touching someone who does not wish it..or in the case of a child, without a parent's consent..can be a crime.

In Ohio it is assault for a TEACHER to grab a student. As ridiculous as that sounds we have cases in the paper all the time. And they aren't being dismissed either. So in the case of a stranger grabbing my kid, not only will I fight, you can bet the police will end up on scene. All because an adult can't keep hands to him/herself.

You want to manhandle kids who don't act the way you like? Then when someone grabs one of your boys because they don't like the way they're acting...I guess you'll just have to smile and suck it up.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
IF you can't control your kids, remove them from the scene


If you can't control your hands, maybe public places aren't for you...especially where kids gather.

Your story about antagonizing the lady who asked your child (who by your own admission was far enough away in which you could not even hear what they were saying to your child) to play somewhere else and ending in you intentionally trying to annoy "the bitch" does not make you look good.


It doesn't make me look good? hahahaha. I don't care.

You must not go to very many soccer games if you think not being able to hear someone talking five feet away is unusual. Our parents are constantly yelling and cheering and having fun....That lady was bullying my son plain and simple. She knew who he was and she knew who I was...I thought your son played soccer....you must not go to very many games...or they must play soccer very quietly in Michigan.

Yes, my son IS learning from me...and what he is learning is he doesn't have to bend to everyone's desire. Especially when they try to bully him into doing what they want. And if they are stupid enough to put hands on him...well then they can't whine when they get their ass kicked....or better yet, arrested.

perhaps the reason you may have problems with your kids is that they have seen you be malicious and find that acceptable behavior.


Perhaps you can enlighten me. What problems?

Teaching my son he doesn't have to bow to bullies is hardly acting malicious. Adults can be bullies, and I teach my kids they don't have to take it.

Teaching YOUR kids its ok to lay their hands on someone who isn't acting the way they think appropriate seems fraught with problems.

I say "well not everyone can do x" because it seems to be that some bloggers think there is a pat way to raise kids and that all kids are the same. Some kids are jerks and no matter what their parents do occasionally they have to take them in public. That does not ever give another unrelated adult REASON to put their hands on them.
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
Every state I've EVER lived in, physically touching someone who does not wish it..or in the case of a child, without a parent's consent..can be a crime.


Just to play devil's advocate.

Since Mason said the child stomped on his foot, then physical contact had already been made. The touching in that case was a self defense mechanism to prevent further collisions between the 2 people (adult and child). I doubt ANY court in the land, barring an outstanding warrant on the adult, would convict the adult of anything except trying to prevent injury to both parties. And should you then take it upon yourself to flail at Mason, they would take it upon themselves to charge you with battery.
Reply #39 from JoeUser Forums Top
Since Mason said the child stomped on his foot, then physical contact had already been made.


Actually that's NOT what he said...he said the kid stepped on his toe (accident).

stepped upon my sandaled toes (bad leg of course). This tore it for me.

I snagged him by the shoulder and told him in my deepest carries-for-miles voice that he just stepped on my toes and that maybe it would be a good idea if he went over there (pointing to a chair) and sat down before someone got hurt.


The child being snagged was not done out of reflex...it was done because it tore at him and he was grouchy.

Also stepping on his toe was an accident...snagging him was deliberate.

Just like someone accidentally bumps into you in the subway, you can't punch them in the face and say...well prior contact was already made.

Also, we aren't discussing two adults here. We are discussing an adult and a MINOR CHILD. There is no mutual combat in any court of law between an adult and a seven year old.
Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top

No, the mistake would be for a stranger (an adult)to physically grab my child. Everything after that is a direct result of that adults poor choice...or in most states CRIME.

Every state I've EVER lived in, physically touching someone who does not wish it..or in the case of a child, without a parent's consent..can be a crime.

In Ohio it is assault for a TEACHER to grab a student. As ridiculous as that sounds we have cases in the paper all the time. And they aren't being dismissed either. So in the case of a stranger grabbing my kid, not only will I fight, you can bet the police will end up on scene. All because an adult can't keep hands to him/herself.

You want to manhandle kids who don't act the way you like? Then when someone grabs one of your boys because they don't like the way they're acting...I guess you'll just have to smile and suck it up.

IF my child actually physically touches another adult then yes, the adult has the right to respond within an approriate range.  If you were to respond by physically attacking the adult, you would be the one committing assault.  Like I said, it's a mistake to just lash out randomly.

Are you suggesting that Mason didn't have self control here? He didn't beat the child. We are not talking about hurting a child. We are talking about physically restraining an out of control child due to the parent's negligence.  Your threat of "the police would be involved" would be laughable if you attacked the person back.   You never know when the person you are attacking could not only subudue you physically but has the legal resources to ruin you. 

That is why you are better off A) keeping your children under control or B) If you can't control your children then controlling yourself if an adult is forced by your negligence to subdue the child would be necessary.

We are not talking about some adult harming a child. We are talking about an adult restraining an out of control child.

 

Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
We are discussing an adult and a MINOR CHILD. There is no mutual combat in any court of law between an adult and a seven year old.


This just cracked me up. I can see it, a smackdown between adults and the kids who are annoying them. Sounds like a great, new reality show.

And here MM was wasting his time with chimps. A snotty, ten year old would be a much more satisfying KO.
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top

It doesn't make me look good? hahahaha. I don't care.

You must not go to very many soccer games if you think not being able to hear someone talking five feet away is unusual. Our parents are constantly yelling and cheering and having fun....That lady was bullying my son plain and simple. She knew who he was and she knew who I was...I thought your son played soccer....you must not go to very many games...or they must play soccer very quietly in Michigan.

I only have what you have said in your story. 

So first: yes, you obviously care what people think because you are objecting to people being annoyed with parents who can't control their children.

Secondly, we are not talking about whether the lady was right or wrong for complaining about your child. We are talking about you doing something to intentionally annoy the adult. That's malice.

Yes, my son IS learning from me...and what he is learning is he doesn't have to bend to everyone's desire. Especially when they try to bully him into doing what they want. And if they are stupid enough to put hands on him...well then they can't whine when they get their ass kicked....or better yet, arrested.

Well if I may be so bold, it sounds like your son is learning life skills that will one day put him into the position of having to be making excuses of why he can't control his own children in public.  My children aren't any more naturally mild than anyone else's.  But we strive to teach them personal discipline so that they have the life skills to be successful adults.  I would say that the single most important thing my mom taught me as a child was to control myself. 

If you want to stand by and delude yourself into thinking that your child could physically harm someone else (even on accident) without the victim being able to so much grab the child by the arm and tell them to knock it off then that's your business. 

And in the case we're talking about, your safety and well being when you tried to "kick ass" on the person would likely be dependent on how much restraint the person you attacked chose to show.  One can almost imagine some hysterical mother attacking MasonM. Sorry but he'd take you apart if he wanted to without having to set down his drink. And I can assure you he wouldn't get arrested.

I find it incredible that you find it easier to physically attack an adult than to simply control your own children from harming others.  Because that is what you seem to be saying. 

Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top

The child being snagged was not done out of reflex...it was done because it tore at him and he was grouchy.

Also stepping on his toe was an accident...snagging him was deliberate.

I never said it was a reflex. However it was defensive. Sorry, you dont get to pass go on this one.

Just like someone accidentally bumps into you in the subway, you can't punch them in the face and say...well prior contact was already made.

And no, it is not accidental when it is an out of control child.

Also, we aren't discussing two adults here. We are discussing an adult and a MINOR CHILD. There is no mutual combat in any court of law between an adult and a seven year old.

And finally there was no combat. restraint is not combat. It was touching only, and then to prevent further collisions. He did not swat, kick, punch, judo chop, or pinch the child. He restrained them. And note he did not say he marched over to the child, which indicates the child was within arms reach. Sorry Tova, I am as protective as you, and have been in a situation where there was none restraintive touching of a child. I am happy to say no one went to jail for assualt and battery, but one parent never showed their face around that neighborhood again.

Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top

If you can't control your hands, maybe public places aren't for you...especially where kids gather.

...like a truck stop you mean?

So you really are defending the kind of poor parenting that results in these out of control children?  That the child really can do no wrong, I mean sure, it's wrong if the children are running around screaming, knocking things over, bouncing into adults and disuprting the place but hey, maybe they've had a bad day? Maybe they're hyperactive? But it's only wrong philisophically.  But the other adults, THEY are the ones who have a problem if they object to this? They should just not go into public places IF they have no problem restraining a child who has just bounced into them?

Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
IF my child actually physically touches another adult then yes, the adult has the right to respond within an approriate range


So if your oldest is at a computer fair and sees some new Stardock banner, and gets excited and says, "Look Daddy! There you are!" and points...but while pointing accidentally pokes a grouchy man...you are all right with that man grabbing him by the shoulder and reprimanding him?

You may say, well my son wasn't acting out of control before that....well what if that man thinks he was? And he feels grabbing your over exuberant child to calm/restrain him is acceptable? You're good with that?

I'm sorry but I don't parent that way. I teach my kids to keep their hands to themselves unless someone is touching them physically in a way they don't like. Then they can fight back or run.

And if they accidentally touch someone or step on someone's toes I will go to bat for them. If they do it because they are acting out, then they will be disciplined BY ME after they apologize.

Look, I guess my problem with this is I do keep my kids in control. At least no one has ever spoken to them or to me about their behavior in earnest. So it is very difficult for me to imagine a kid being so out of control a stranger needs to grab them. And yes, I've seen kids I thought were out of control, but the very last thing on my mind would be to grab at them, or physically restrain them.

I am not suggesting Mason was out of control. I am saying what he himself said, he was grouchy. Why did he mention it if not pertinent to the situation? It leads the reader to believe on a day when he wasn't in pain he would over look the situation...or at least handled it differently.
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top

And here MM was wasting his time with chimps. A snotty, ten year old would be a much more satisfying KO.

! ROFL!  I had forgotte that reference!  I am sorry I cannot give you more than one insightful!  maybe Brad can tweak it to give you 5 stars!  Fantastic!

Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top

IF my child actually physically touches another adult then yes, the adult has the right to respond within an approriate range


So if your oldest is at a computer fair and sees some new Stardock banner, and gets excited and says, "Look Daddy! There you are!" and points...but while pointing accidentally pokes a grouchy man...you are all right with that man grabbing him by the shoulder and reprimanding him?

Tova - re-read his response.  Let me draw your attention to the bolded part.  It is not a carte blanche.

Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top
you are objecting to people being annoyed with parents who can't control their children.


I am OBJECTING to adults grabbing children they have no business touching in ANY way.

We are talking about you doing something to intentionally annoy the adult. That's malice.


You can see it that way....I don't. I didn't think she was right. I couldn't TRUST her to be around my three year old without bullying him. So I stayed and played with him. I don't care if she liked it or not..and the fact she was such a bitch to a child...well any annoyance was icing on the cake.

And if you attempt to act like you are above annoying someone who purposely tries to hurt your child, I won't believe you.

Well if I may be so bold, it sounds like your son is learning life skills that will one day put him into the position of having to be making excuses of why he can't control his own children in public.


Hmmm...I don't see the connection. He wasn't doing anything wrong. Why is it you assume because I don't think adults should go around grabbing on children who aren't their own....my kids are out of control?

I find it incredible that you find it easier to physically attack an adult than to simply control your own children from harming others. Because that is what you seem to be saying.


I find it incredible you think it better for a parent to stand by and watch a stranger grab their child than to think to defend them. My child's safety comes way before any faux paus they could ever make...and letting strangers touch them, grab them, intimidate them physically is NOT watching out for them.
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
And no, it is not accidental when it is an out of control child.


That is crazy. If the child did not intentionally step on Mason's toes then it is an ACCIDENT. Restraining anyone against their will...or in the case of a minor child, against their parents wishes, is at the very least a very unwise thing to do.
Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top
So you really are defending the kind of poor parenting that results in these out of control children?


No, you are reading too much into a tongue and cheek comment.

My point is two wrongs don't make a right. The kid was out of control, I don't condone that. But I also don't think Mason putting his hands on the child was necessary, warranted, wise, or even right.