A Few Thoughts About Secular Humanism

AMEN!! It's much easier to do wrong or evil than it is to do the right thing. It's our sinful nature. To do good is really the aberration. It takes an unselfish nature to put oneself aside to do for another when it doesn't benefit ourselves. Coming from a Christian background I believe it has to do with our new nature put inside us only from the Holy Spirit that we have the desire to do the right thing. Scripture over and over says that the heart is deceitful and wicked above all other things, who can know it? Everything comes from the heart. God says He will take out our heart of stone and put in a new heart made of flesh and that I believe is the only way one can be on the way to perfection. Never really getting there mind you but then and only then able to put oneself aside and do for another with totally unselfish motives. I know this cuz I've been on both sides. It's an awesome thing to have that heart of stone chipped away and replaced with the heart of flesh. It's a God thing!!

What about those who are, in D&D terms, Lawful Good yet aren't religious?

What about them?

I think it's just as obvious that in addition to their innate and inescapable potential for evil, humans have an innate and inescapable potential for good. Together, these two potentials produce an inner conflict which means that while no evil is beyond redemption, no good is perfect.

Even people who strive to be "Lawful Good" don't always succeed. This is exactly what I'm talking about. History tells us time and again that even a good man, with a good plan, will fall short of his ideals. Man has great moral strength, but also great moral weakness.

I don't even think "religion" is necessary, for Lawful Goodness. I think that the knowledge of Good, and the desire to accomplish Good things, is innate--part of human nature. But I think it's also clear that "Chaotic Evil" is also a part of human nature. Finally I think that the evidence shows that humans cannot resolve the conflict between Good and Evil by themselves. Every attempt to do so, throughout history, has failed. Most of these attempts have actually made things worse (e.g., applied Communism).

"Finally I think that the evidence shows that humans cannot resolve the conflict between Good and Evil by themselves."

Are you saying it's not resolvable or that the solution is non-human?

Ooh.

Good question.

I'm saying that if it is resolvable, its resolution must have a non- or super-human component. The record seems pretty clear that human components alone don't get the job done.

"The record seems pretty clear that human components alone don't get the job done."

Perhaps, but the record doesn't show that non- or super-human components would do a better job. Sounds similar to saying, "History has not shown that humans are capable of intergalactic travel. Hence, magic is the answer."

And I'm saying the super human component is non other than the HS. The power source behind our weaknesses. Why else would a killer (in the news recently) give himself up because a tiny woman told him about God and explained to him that we all have a purpose in life. She didn't do this without help, superhuman that is, and he didn't give himself up and let her live without that presence involved.

I'm saying that if it is resolvable, its resolution must have a non- or super-human component.

in other words, man may be smart enuff to choose for himself but can't be trusted to do so. and you're what kinda conservative again?

I am convinced that morality and religion are not interdependent. One can be a very moral person and be an athiest, or deeply religious. One can be deeply religious and be an evil and dangerous human being, or very moral. Religion can place morality onto those who may otherwise be immoral or amoral, maybe keeping some people in check. But those people would be immoral anyway, whereas morality is predominantly within the heart and intellect of a human being, devoid of religion.

Needless to say, I believe in secular humanism. I don't need religion to know not to steal and murder. Seems that a lot of organized religions sure do NOT know this, however. Throughout history, more people have died and been murdered in the name of religion; more valuables have been stolen in the name of religion. Seems that more damage has been done by religious institutions than not.

I'm not against religious people. I'm not against religions. What I really hate though, is this holier than thou kind of moralizing; this "I'm better than you" crap, base on religious doctrine.

I'm not against religious people. I'm not against religions. What I really hate though, is this holier than thou kind of moralizing; this "I'm better than you" crap, base on religious doctrine.

Christians, it seems, are the worst advertisement for Christianity.

I'm guessing then, you are among the "pro-moral" majority of citizens in the US.

Sadly, education, media, and government have all been abducted by a secular humanist minority, and you see the results.

Good morals are the base of a good society. When the statement of the era is, "There are no absolute truths, save the truth that there are no absolutes." it quickly becomes, "Relative is relative. You didn't kill someone, so raping them is ok."

Peace,

Beebes

You can be religious about anything......even about morality but it doesn't mean you have a changed heart. The outside may look whitewashed but inside is black as night. There is a difference between religion and relationship. You can call yourself anything even a Christian and not be one. A true Christian is a follower of.....CHRIST. Many say they are but in reality are not.....and that's why you have wars and such in the name of Christianity. Most churches today are religious but lost!! There's a battle going on for our souls and most haven't a clue....they're too busy having church dinners.

It's the "so called Christians" that are the worst advertisement for Christianity and they're doing a great job at causing mass loads of confusion.

When the statement of the era is, "There are no absolute truths, save the truth that there are no absolutes." it quickly becomes, "Relative is relative. You didn't kill someone, so raping them is ok."

while that may be a pretty niftily packaged opinion, there's really nothing there but a wild leap of logic.

When we remove God from moral equasions, we set man above all for determining right from wrong. The result of that is secular humanism, but when we then convince ourselves there *is* no absolute right and wrong, the result can only be a deterioration of our society.

so removing god from the moral equation ultimately leads to societal deterioration?

i'm left wondering which makes less sense: your conclusion or your use of drmiler's asterisks.

"so removing god from the moral equation ultimately leads to societal deterioration? "

YES YES YES,......BY GEORGE YOU'VE GOT IT!!!

If you doubt that, just open your eyes and look around. The school system is the first place to look.

If anyone says prayer in school is the answer to all of society's problems, I will go absolutely nuts.

condoning the murder of innocent fetis, approving of starving a brain damaged woman does not sound like moral high ground to me.

What's wrong with prayer? Being in touch with the commander of the universe can be a very good thing. How's the saying go....don't let God be your last resort but your first response. I know for a fact that prayer works. It's awesome!! We have not cuz we ask not.

As far as judgment goes.....the most oft repeated scripture used to be John 3:16 but now it's....."judge not lest you be judged." And it's taken wholly out of context. Too bad the rest of the context isn't quoted as well.....how convenient.

I thought I just said that, kingbee, have you suddenly become reading impaired?

not at all. i was merely trying to decipher my way thru your sloppy ambiguity.

When we remove God from moral equasions, we set man above all for determining right from wrong. The result of that is secular humanism, but when we then convince ourselves there *is* no absolute right and wrong, the result can only be a deterioration of our society.

now that you've cleared things up a bit, i'm no longer able to dismiss what appears to be a major revelation as a mere accident or the result of poor construction.

just one more conservative admitting she really doesn't believe mankind can be trusted with the freedom to make its own choices.

does this mean the freedom to worship in public? or just the right of the left to not allow any mention of religion in public?

secular humanism is not only a purposely redundant term but also a misleading one in that it suggests some sorta radical humanist cult. all humanism is by definition secular in the same--tho reverse--way that all benevolent despotism is anything but benevolent.

How DARE you sit in judgement???

Spoken from a true KKK mindset.

does this mean the freedom to worship in public? or just the right of the left to not allow any mention of religion in public?

For the excrutiatingly slow on the uptake, it means that anyone has the right and freedom to worship in public. Anyone has the right to mention religion in public. However, no religion should be organized or advocated by any governmental body, be it public schools or court houses, or even money, as far as I'm concerned. This is all that the Constitution is saying and is all that the ACLU is fighting for. Your suggestion that it is anything else is just your small-minded way of demonizing anyone who is in support of the Constitution. How utterly unpatriotic you really are, mod. You should be ashamed of yourself.

For the excrutiatingly slow on the uptake, it means that anyone has the right and freedom to worship in public. Anyone has the right to mention religion in public. However, no religion should be organized or advocated by any governmental body, be it public schools or court houses, or even money, as far as I'm concerned. This is all that the Constitution is saying and is all that the ACLU is fighting for. Your suggestion that it is anything else is just your small-minded way of demonizing anyone who is in support of the Constitution. How utterly unpatriotic you really are, mod. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think if you twist things a little bit farther, they might snap.

Your logic is sound, but if it's student lead, why are administrators and teachers refusing to let children pray in school? And why is it that whenever a church stands up to say something against the current policies of government, the church is told it does not belong in politics, lest it loose it's tax-exempt status. The total opposite is true. The church or synagogue is the moral center of the community, and if it doesn't speak out, who will?

Peace,

Beebes

I think if you twist things a little bit farther, they might snap.

And, I'd certainly say the same about your argument. So, obviously, we're never going to agree. And, as for religious enterprises in schools, I'd say unless it's a religious school, in other words, a private school, it does not belong. Period. Religious beliefs are a right of anyone. But, they are not necessarily the moral fabric of society. Only those who are religious would think that. In fact, as I've already posted, morality is within the fabric of the individual, not his/her religion. Morality is independent of religion. Now, please tell me why so many wars are supported by and encouraged by religious people? The same people who think killing others is acceptable as long as they are no longer in the womb.

If you're referring to psudo Christians, it's usually pride or the other side has what they want as the reason they engage in war. If the Christian's are supporting a war it has to be justified which usually means sancity of life is involved and must be defended. That's why the same Christians who are pro life believe in Capitol Punishment in certain cases. To put a murderer to death protects the innocent and saves other lives. It all comes down to protecting life. Pure and simple. What I don't understand is the other side who are so quick to kill the babies and let the murderers live. Now what's up with that?