Frogboy Frogboy

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

95,782 views 522 replies
Reply #26 Top
when I say blow, I mean, like going to a movie one a weekend every weekend, going out to the bar and blowing $50.00 - $100.00 a weekend and stuff
Reply #27 Top
Travis..I think Brad said something earlier about how little banner ads actually make...

Not nearly enough to cover the cost...
Reply #28 Top
no, banners do not do diddly...

now Porn banners do and that is why everyone gets so many porn spams in hotmail and stuff and also misleading urls....
Reply #29 Top
now Porn banners do and that is why everyone gets so many porn spams in hotmail and stuff and also misleading urls....


See! There is a way to keep WinCustomize free for the commoners!
It might even lead some of us to other great sites on the net.




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Reply #31 Top
Yeah...'Boobs On A Banner'..... yep, that's the ticket!!!



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Reply #32 Top



no I was just thinking about banners not doing diddly, but Porn banners promote diddly



not to use them on the site

Prons are shirimp kinda thingys
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Reply #33 Top
um no id rather not have another family site go to the trash can...
Reply #34 Top
Here's my two cents I just used my wifes computer to visit WC. I downloaded about ten skins as a visitor, with ratings from 3 to 10, there were no limits to what I could get. On the about page it says visitors can download anything rated 7 or above Pretty much free reign for visitors. I would suggest that visitors get a limited gallery of what can be downloaded here, and not all categories. They get all the goods without any contribution whatsoever. They need a reason to subscribe



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Reply #35 Top
um no id rather not have another family site go to the trash can...


*indeed*

Pretty much free reign for visitors. I would suggest that visitors get a limited gallery of what can be downloaded here, and not all categories. They get all the goods without any contribution whatsoever. They need a reason to subscribe



yes, they do, and a means to control it also...

Reply #36 Top
~ In the long run the 'little guy' is always going to get screwed when a site starts charging for it's services/content. Of the 75k visitors everyday, many of them don't have the money or are too young to purchase. I've seen many a site go under due to the drastic reduction in visitors because a fee, however small, was required. WC is the ULTIMATE community skinning site and part of what makes it so great is the fact that its free. I'm not knocking the need for money to maintain this site, I just think looking for an alternative means to generate it should be looked into before requiring a fee.

~ For the record, I purchased OD 3 years ago and will continue to renew my subscription until OD doesn't exist.



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Reply #37 Top
Of the 75k visitors everyday, many of them don't have the money or are too young to purchase


They can pay their internet bill but cannot pay for a subscription? And Im sure many of the kids here have parents who can pay with their creditcard...
Reply #38 Top
They can pay their internet bill but cannot pay for a subscription? And Im sure many of the kids here have parents who can pay with their creditcard...

agreed id rather have my kids comin here and gettin constructive stuff..(if they were old enough to be on the net, theyve got a few years to go ) better to have them here than at sum of the rather unseemly sites that are growing more abundant every day...

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Reply #39 Top
Damn. I'll try to rustle up 20 bucks, but that isn't easy when I got appox 1 to 10 bucks free a month. Maybe I'll just steal money from my gas fund and try to live with one less refuel next month.
Reply #40 Top
They can pay their internet bill but cannot pay for a subscription?


In my case, it would be selling off my legs to buy shoes. My funds are so tight it's not funny. Last year I had good fin. aid, but now it was recuded due to lack of goverment funds.
Reply #41 Top
thx mr x. but were really talking abt those who work and can afford to help out or get an allowance and spend it on frivilous stuff but come here and arent willing to at least help out with the costs they help incur. i dont mind helping pay for those who cant. but i get annoyed payin for those who are cheap....
Reply #42 Top
Brad, for seriouse, I think it would be smart if you collect about 4 good skins and give them away to subscribers, under the premium skins... that should help IMO
Reply #43 Top
cool i just answered my own question. buying a stardock product contributes to WC but not as much as a regular subscription.. with that in mind as soon as i can wrestle the credit cards away from the misses im gettin my subscription.i have been a member of this wunderful site for abt a year, all the hours of playing with all these skins and stuff is definately worth a subscription..$20 well spent in my eyes..now all u that can afford to help out..please do so. dont make jafo give yas a stern lecture
Reply #44 Top
whew .. it was a tough struggle but i got the cards ... ..thx guys for a wunderful year . and heres to many more
Reply #45 Top
I only purchased OD a few months ago but have had a ball with it since then. I got my subscription a few days ago when you started the drive for them. I should of done it sooner, just hadn't gotten around to it. I would hate to see this site come to an end. For people like me who are new to skinning it is a great place to learn and see peoples creative work. I hope that some of the visitors to the site will see that and realize they need to contribute to the site to keep it going. I mean if some can go and spend a dollar a piece to download music, they could certainly spend $20 for this site for 2 years. I understand it is a tuff time for alot of people right now money wise but as many visitors as this site has you would think more could subscribe. I just wish I could do more.

To those that keep this site up and running you do a fantastic job, also a not so easy one at times I am sure. For those that put there skins here and have such creative minds to create such wonderful stuff....HERE'S TO YOU!!! You are all what makes this site possible, lets hope the visitors here will see that too.
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Reply #46 Top
I'd love to buy a subscription, but three things hold me back.

1.) Lack of content in the type of art/material I like.

2.) Doctor bills. I already spend $100 a month for monthly visits to Doctor and medications. Since I have no life, no job, and no disability, my parents pay for that which means I get less and less.

3.) Wincustomize thankfully is cheap, but it's expensive, and to an extent, rediculous that every website wants money for their work. $20 here, $30 to a half-ass working DA, and $75 to various programs, etc. It's way to expensive for my blood right now.

However, it is christmas time and there's bound to be $20 from somewhere. Whenever I get it, I'll buy my subscription. It's just kinda sad in a way because for some people, $20 is alot, while others have it to give without a second thought.

I wish websites like DA/Wincustmize could stay "free-ware" though with the premium services. Sadly, everyone wants money, and the admins have to pay for the access one way or another. Meh.

Edit:

Of course I know someones gonna call me a whiner or whatever, but as I said. Many people value money differently. It's not fair to those that want to experience great art, but have to consider giving up a months worth of medication or something, you know?
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Reply #47 Top
I still think the way to go would be to limit nonsubscribers a little bit. That would cut back on bandwidth and save a little needed money. They do the same thing at Webshots.com and they get tons of visitors as well. You can see all of the great photos but you can't download "really" great ones unless you pay a small fee. Plus you are limited to how much you can download in one day. And every place I go I see Webshot screensavers on everyones PC's. WC is one of the few great places on the web and is definitely worth the money.
Reply #48 Top
You know, when you look at it from several view points, it makes you feel bad for visiting Wincustomize off and on for a year but never contributing..

For example, many people come here once or twice and get a wallpaper. While some stick around and continue mooching without subscribing, without contributing.

It's like a bunch of kids reading magazines in the stores while their parents shop. They read the entire magazine but never buy it. They leave with the knowledge the magazine offered, but didn't contribute buy purchasing it.

Ahhhh hell, I need to get $20 and get a subscription, I feel like crap now.
Reply #49 Top
well i got my WC subscription as well as renewed my object desktop. i messed up tho and used my new e mail addy for the WC subscript..i sent a e mail off ta stardock hopin they can get the two accounts merged under this one ....
Reply #50 Top
As much I love this site, I would shut it down for lets say the rest of the month with only the link to get the subscrition.

Then only the ones who are subscribers will have the option to download. (from SDC or Browser) I believe then, People should reach for their wallets.