Vasary fleet can just jump to my homeworld

Yeah did you get the whole superweapon warning?

If Vasari is getting a superweapon then that should send warnings in your head that he's going to jump all over the map now. Rush him down immediately and find those superweapons immediately

Vasari is the most mobile of factions.

Well if you refuse to play with any Vasari you're out of luck since Vasari is probably the most popular to play. Though they have been heavily nerfed so they're far from being OP these days.

Competitive multiplayer doesn't seem to be your thing then. Some enjoy the rush others don't. You're best to find a more casual group.

I dunno ... I could try again someday but I certainly don't like the rushing and the Vasari jumping is just horrible so ... yeah maybe I'll just stick to single-player, or maybe human vs AI games or something.

You can always take a look at the mods for the game as well. And find a group of friends to play that.

FFA tends to play to Vasari strengths as most people dig in rather than waste their energy in early wars.  Vasari at endgame gets the best toys, so you generally want to kill them off early.

Not as OP as before, but still well above the level of TEC or Advent.

You are looking for a way to defeat it?

There is none, except having a multi star map where you are not in the same star system as he is.

The Kostura Cannon does not work between stars.

If you have only one star system and cannot get ally support against a competent Vasari player.... you have lost.

Digging in does not help.... a very late game Vasari fleet is quite capable of obliberating any defense, long before your fleet is back home.

Well, the TEC has a good economy at the very end at least. I like that about the TEC. Twin starbases with level 2 tradeports give a lot of trade income.

Now if it were just possible to scuttle a selection of ships (instead of 1 at a time) then a TEC player could perhaps build a new fleet (or part of a fleet) closer to home.

And if it were just possible to set an auto-rebuild for a selection of ships at a planet, that would be helpful as well, then I don't have to keep clicking the same ships again and again at different planets when I try to swap an enemy with ever more ships (which I did in the last game I played, against an AI, that was a lot of clicking).

And having +1000 metal would also help later in the game when I want to buy lots of metal on the market (maybe the game could turn the amount of metal and crystal to +1000 when my credits get over 100K and to +2500 when my credits get over 250K  ?

Perhaps some kind of quick-build could also help for the TEC, like you could build a stockpile of parts at a planet, which can then be turned into ships at a shipyard at a faster rate than from scratch... at some extra cost of course.

But I suppose that's off-topic. The AI doesn't really use that ability to jump to my homeworld, so that already solves the problem for me (kinda). I do hope it will stay that way and that it's not "corrected" by a patch.

The Vasari also have another big advantage, I noticed. Their hangar bays can stop all bombers in range (and it's a huge range) so that they do nothing. I cannot even destroy a hangar bay with my bombers - if I order them there, it means that just more of them are stopped by that thing. Now in principle I think that's awesome, cause it's effective at stopping bomber spam. But TEC just has a bit of flack, and that's not as effective, or is it (it's a bit hard to tell from playing against an AI)?

Yep that mechanic is just to imbalanced i mean right of the start the guy just builds a freaken starbase at the edge of my capital planet which is bullshit so while my fleet is fight to get a planet my capital is getting fucked by a starbase built in couple of seconds i regret buying this game it seemed pretty fun at the beginning but multiplayer is just big mess from boring clusterfuck to imbalanced race advantage no fun at all. i agree with you 100%

"If you can't beat Vasari then join them"

"I was able to crank up some wins when I followed the above phrase and advice people to try it."

Vasari are the easiest race to play militaristically because they only need a handful of units supplemented by Star -Bases and a titan to capture planets. Their expensive units are supplemented by mobility (Phase Stabilizer and End game Cannon) but given room for eco then there unstoppable so I don't know how they can nerf this ability other than simply saying phase jumps to HW by their cannon are not possible.

 This would be similar to the repossession nerf on the coronate titan.

I suggest that instead of FFA, you try 5-on-5 games.  They don't get to the point where a Vasari player can make that jump with the Kostura real often.

If you're letting him walk in and build a starbase (which takes quite a while to do and is extremely vulnerable while being built) it's really your own fault.

Cry more.    

Read as: " I didnt scout, i had no map awareness, someguy started building a starbase on my hw. i still havent noticed until it was killing my buildings and upgraded itself. Game imbalanced, why cant i roll other players even though im a noob and dont know all the game mechanics."

Advice: go play a game where there is no learning curve and its catered for ppl like you: WoW.

P.S This is how i feel about your post:

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/cat-crying.gif

People, that person has a point.

If you don't see the starbase in time, then you have no time to destroy it and even if you do, you'll lose half your fleet. Basically, it's game over already and you have hardly even started the game.

And why should you even consider joining games with Vasari players who'll just repeat that tactic again and again? I don't, I think it's a complete waste of my time to play games that way and the so-called "experienced" players? They're just really bad-asses who think they're so great at this game but really all they do is, they're ruining other peoples fun by using such tactics.

It's no wonder there are so many friend-only games.

Rushing HW with an Orky at the beginning of the game is a WEAKER tactic than any of the LF/Disc spam. Would you prefer i turned up at your hw with 40 disciples and a cap ship? Because that would be a lot harder to kill than a solo orky. Dont forget that 90% of the time the migrator has to fly through like 1-2 of your planets to get to your hw, so you have so much time to either see it or kill it. And then it takes an absolute age to go up in an enemy gravity well.

No "so-called experienced" player would ever rush enemy HW from the start as pretty much anyone who knows how make ships in the factory will stop it easily. This tactic is only used on people who dont know how to make ships , ie. first game on ICO as a poster above. I dont think anyone even tried to sb my hw off the start in the last 200 games.

Maybe, however it remains an unusual easy to do and hard to counter tactic.

It does not involve any significant risks for the Vasari, but can do catastrophic damage.

A migrator can be easily overlooked or hidden inside a fleet.

And if your fleet is just 3 or 4 jump away and the Migrator jumps in, changes are good that he will make it to the first armor upgrade. In which case you are pretty much dead.

 For its power, it is very easy to do and requires significant more effort and awareness to fend off.

Only as long as the Orky does not have an armor upgrade.

And it doesnt have to be your capital..... a nasty chokepoint is more than enough to significantly hinder your progress.

2 factories on homeworld pumping out ships as soon as soon as you see migrator in nearby gravity wells will stop it. Remember weapon upgrades have been nerfed which were key to early game rushes. Ask any skilled player how they upgrade or at least used to upgrade their orkies in rushes and most would get weps cos fo 15s timer.

And scouting is a must in every RTS i have ever played. He could just as easily turn up with 10 krosovs and kill your hw in no time if you dont know whats coming.

Thats a different matter and IS a lot harder to stop in nearly all ciscumstances especially with EGG support. Its not what he was angry about though.

He was focusing on a fight, then it's easy to overlook.

Anyway, perhaps you could explain why it's worthwile to learn multiplayer tactics and play online multiplayer games against Vasari players - assuming I prefer TEC because I really like the twin starbases, trade income and even the Ankylon and don't really want to play Vasari myself.

So what's the fun early game? Is it about the thrill of rushing or fending off rushes? Seeing who's the better one balancing eco and military?

And how do you make it into a later game... how do you survive rushes? Can you survive by doing defensive and building a starbase or just by building more ships?

And how do you handle Vasari players? Are they beatable, or fun to play against as non-Vasari? How do you beat them?

Personally I like the rush in the early game.

I've been playing pure TEC in both Trinity and Rebellion for a good number of years. Vasari is definitely beatable.

I've mentioned this to you before though. It really seems competitive multiplayer isn't your cup of tea.

I dunno, I played Star Craft and Supreme Commander a lot and those games also had rushes and nasty tricks like quick-building a nuclear launcher ... maybe I'll try again someday after I've played more games against hard AI.

If you assume that all 3 race players know what they are doing and no feed is present. 

Early game: TEC => Advent > Vasari

TEC: Perhaps TEC have slight advantage over advent but that is because of their cheap tier 2 weapon hull armour upgrades. Without that they would be pretty even.  

Vasari: What helps vasari tremendously in first 10 min of the game are neutrals. Without them Vasari are sitting ducks and are forced to play defensively and invest heavily into star bases. Without any good choke points they are as good as dead or locked into HW and hoping their titan will save them.

Middle game: TEC > Advent => Vasari

TEC: Tec is first but only if they if they can get big enough economy to out spam their opponents.

Advent: Advent is starting to invest in their battle ball

Vasari: Vasari has now heavily invested in their phase missiles research which can cause massive problems to advent but only if they have fleet to support them

Late game: Vasari => Advent >> TEC

Vasari: Vasari is king. If they have kosutra game is pretty much over if not once maw bug will be fixed advent (especially loyal) have serious chance to win the game.

Advent: If advent have economy to build 3 Deliverance engines and as long as vasari have no kosutra they won the game. Only thing that could save anyone is vasari mobility trough phase gates with their hit and run tactic.

TEC: TEC especially loyal unless they massed novalith cannons have no chance here. Another way they can win is to have much bigger eco than enemy and are able to field bigger fleets a lot quicker. Most of the time they are just observers.

Disclaimer: Those are only opinions of certain Greg30007

More or less agree apart from the point where in your opinion TEC> advent early game. I find it depends a lot on skill, at low-mid skill TEC>Advent early game but vs High skill player Advent is a lot harder to stop imo. When playing against the top tier players i always struggle a lot more as advent players will just split their forces and hit and run you to death. While its ofc possible with TEC its not as effective and easier to stop imo.

Nobody is debating that point.  I think the issue here is that you need to keep an eye on what is going on at various worlds. If you at least have a hanger facility in the area the world will flash red and notify you that something is going on.  There are other cues (the unity detects approaching invaders!) but you need to pay attention.

I don't understand the mentality that we need to look down on those who properly play a race's strengths.  You need to stop and consider that it's possible the problem is with how you're playing - not how your opponent is playing.  It could just be that competitive play is not for you - there's definitely nothing wrong with playing private games if you prefer it that way.

...but TEC is better in early game.  Early game is all about being the guy with the most money so you can actually afford a fleet.  Nobody does that faster than TEC.  Advent will research faster, but that doesn't mean much if you have no money to pay for the research.

Also, phase missles are pretty awesome in early gameplay, especially against advent.

Well that's the entire game.

...actually unless TEC invests in 3-4 ports advent is better off civic labs wise. 1 culture center on tier 2 raised your income by 10%. And ROI on 1 temple is much faster than ROI on 3-4 ports. Remember culture increases your resource extraction as well. not by much but still. 

and in first 5 minutes mistake of building 4 ports can decide the game.