DerekPaxton DerekPaxton

Fallen Enchantress 1.20 update is on its way

Fallen Enchantress 1.20 update is on its way

 

  We are currently working on update 1.20 for Fallen Enchantress.  It focuses on more varied map generation, improved AI and contains a few cool changes (I wish I could take credit for the idea to have Apiarys and Pastures grant faction wide bonuses but Brad recommended those changes and they have been fun to play with).

  We are currently targeting next week for release assuming QA goes fine.  we will keep you updated as we continue to work.

  You can see the details here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/439150

 

67,587 views 61 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 26

Post actual bug reports, or it didn't happen.

You can't expect Stardock to fix things unless you are a lot more specific then "it's buggy". Many issues are hardware specific so you have to bring up your specific issues if you want them fixed.

Just click on my alias, and you may find quite a few. The reaction was the same as to all the other bug reports (3-5 per day or so, just see for yourself). Maybe Stardock's responsiveness was better in the past; right now it is close to zero.

 

Quoting Gandalftheredskin, reply 23

Yea, I gotta interject here; no offense dude, but you must have been very lucky in your choice of games, or pretty new to gaming if FE is the buggiest game you've ever played.

I would not call it luck. This is the first time I purchased a game right after release and without playing a demo. I regret it sorely.

 

Concerning some of the other games which were mentioned here: I heard of their problems. For some strange reason, Stardock's customers don't complain as loudly as others do. Maybe they don't expect anything anymore.

 

Quoting erischild, reply 24

As I've told my kids a billion times, hyperbole erases believability, but they are by far the most unresponsive and buggiest kids I know.

:)

Reply #27 Top

GFireflyE-

Oblivion was amazing, easily one of the best video games ever made. Morrowind's story was by the far the best. Overall, though, Skyrim is probably the best overall game of the three in terms of general quality. But how can I fault you for preferring Oblivion when it was so good? 

Reply #28 Top

Quoting davrovana, reply 27
GFireflyE-

Oblivion was amazing, easily one of the best video games ever made. Morrowind's story was by the far the best. Overall, though, Skyrim is probably the best overall game of the three in terms of general quality. But how can I fault you for preferring Oblivion when it was so good? 

can't.

was just teas'n ;)

 

Reply #29 Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 26

Post actual bug reports, or it didn't happen.

You can't expect Stardock to fix things unless you are a lot more specific then "it's buggy". Many issues are hardware specific so you have to bring up your specific issues if you want them fixed.

Customers generally don't make very reliable QA testers. The reasons are (1) customers generally don't know how to give detailed and professional bug reports which can precisely communicate issues and (2) customers are more (rightly) concerned with playing the game then providing sub-standard QA.

That is not to say that Stardock should not be taking advantage of "free QA" from their customer pool, but rather that they should make it as easy and painless as possible whenever a bug needs to be reported.

Perhaps they should embed a bug-reporting tool within FE that automatically uploads crash dumps into their bug-tracking database whenever the program crashes. No need for any manual input in the case of crash bugs. This same tool should also facilitate balance bug reporting by providing a pop-up template where users can fill in relevant information before formatting it properly and uploading to that same bug-tracking DB.

In short, rather than relying on customers posting bug reports in some forum, automate as many things as possible to make it convenient for them to post issues and easy for Stardock devs to parse relevant info out of these bug reports.

Reply #30 Top

Quoting baddl, reply 26
Quoting DsRaider, reply 26
Post actual bug reports, or it didn't happen.

You can't expect Stardock to fix things unless you are a lot more specific then "it's buggy". Many issues are hardware specific so you have to bring up your specific issues if you want them fixed.

Just click on my alias, and you may find quite a few. The reaction was the same as to all the other bug reports (3-5 per day or so, just see for yourself). Maybe Stardock's responsiveness was better in the past; right now it is close to zero.

 

Quoting Gandalftheredskin, reply 23
Yea, I gotta interject here; no offense dude, but you must have been very lucky in your choice of games, or pretty new to gaming if FE is the buggiest game you've ever played.

I would not call it luck. This is the first time I purchased a game right after release and without playing a demo. I regret it sorely.

 

Concerning some of the other games which were mentioned here: I heard of their problems. For some strange reason, Stardock's customers don't complain as loudly as others do. Maybe they don't expect anything anymore.

 

Quoting erischild, reply 24
As I've told my kids a billion times, hyperbole erases believability, but they are by far the most unresponsive and buggiest kids I know.

 

It really seems like we are playing different games.  Did you play Civ V?  For many months it was terribly buggy with crashes and all sorts of issues.  I still get texture bugs in that game, and the AI often does some wonky stuff.  While I think FE can certainly be improved--and I certainly hope they do--I'm having a good time playing it at the moment and I have not crashed once (I started playing with version 1.12).  I'm encouraged that Stardock developers are posting in the forums and seem to be continuing to work on AI and other updates.  Strategy games like Civ V and FE are often a bit of a work in progress.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting kyonhism30195, reply 32
This game still have huge memory leaks :/

Crashes aren't always caused by memory leaks if that's what you mean. Otherwise, memory leaks are usually not really noticeable to the average user except for some slowdown or hard disk swapping depending on the app. Still, that is not to say that app slowdowns are always caused by memory leaks too.

This just underscores my point about bug reporting. There is a difference between a "memory leak" or a "hang" or "lag" or a "crash", at least in the typical software developer vernacular. And rather than have an average user differentiate between them, it's probably better to have these issues be automatically categorized and reported by some error-detection mechanism within the app.

 

Reply #33 Top

Quoting Fezziwig, reply 31

It really seems like we are playing different games.  Did you play Civ V?  For many months it was terribly buggy with crashes and all sorts of issues.  I still get texture bugs in that game, and the AI often does some wonky stuff.  While I think FE can certainly be improved--and I certainly hope they do--I'm having a good time playing it at the moment and I have not crashed once (I started playing with version 1.12).  I'm encouraged that Stardock developers are posting in the forums and seem to be continuing to work on AI and other updates.  Strategy games like Civ V and FE are often a bit of a work in progress.

I did not play Civ V either because there were very convincing negative reports about it. (The one unit per tile feature in particular.) Civ V plays in a different league anyway.

When I read those "It has some bugs, but nothing game-breaking." posts, I get the same feeling (about playing different games). I also started playing with version 1.12 although I had bought the game earlier. FE crashed several times already in the first hour. That did not put me off too much. That autosaves are not reliable, however, made me very suspicious. I noticed that my units lose movement points without moving, the AI does not play according to the same rules, data you see or read on the screen are not always correct - sometimes different parts of the world even seem to disagree about known facts (due to multithreading?), the UI is cumbersome and does strange things, ... In short, every time I looked more closely (because I wanted to find out exactly what was going on - after all I was still learning), I always discovered some weird behavior. So my only explanation is that some (most?) players just don't pay much attention to what is really happening. And that's the only way to have fun with this game at present.

The second part of the story is that Stardock seems to have withdrawn all the developers (except Derek Paxton and Brad "Frogboy" Wardell) ATM and even those two are working on fairly insignificant details. Normally, if you hurry release to get your game out before the Christmas season, you should be prepared to follow up with one or two big patches early on. Even more so if your product contains several known bugs, not only numerous yet undiscovered bugs because of the usual sloppy testing.

It seems to me that quality drops in general. That's because new games become ever more complex, but probably also because customers buy them anyway. It also seems to me that FE is among the worse examples. (From what I've read I would infer that Civ V, for example, never had the same kind of bugs like FE - bugs in the game engine itself. I consider those bugs the most serious. A game without rules isn't a game at all.)

Reply #34 Top

Quoting Ben, reply 30

Customers generally don't make very reliable QA testers. The reasons are (1) customers generally don't know how to give detailed and professional bug reports which can precisely communicate issues and (2) customers are more (rightly) concerned with playing the game then providing sub-standard QA.

That is not to say that Stardock should not be taking advantage of "free QA" from their customer pool, but rather that they should make it as easy and painless as possible whenever a bug needs to be reported.

Perhaps they should embed a bug-reporting tool within FE that automatically uploads crash dumps into their bug-tracking database whenever the program crashes. No need for any manual input in the case of crash bugs. This same tool should also facilitate balance bug reporting by providing a pop-up template where users can fill in relevant information before formatting it properly and uploading to that same bug-tracking DB.

In short, rather than relying on customers posting bug reports in some forum, automate as many things as possible to make it convenient for them to post issues and easy for Stardock devs to parse relevant info out of these bug reports.

There are numerous surprisingly detailed bug reports on the forum. The bad thing is that bugs are not acknowledged, let alone fixed. I would expect that testers take over, trying to reproduce the behavior, maybe asking questions, and then passing "tickets" on to the developers with sufficient detail.

I like your suggestions. It is a shame that we have to use external services like pastebin and dropbox to submit bug reports. Keeping more than two autosaves would also help to reproduce bugs.

Reply #35 Top

I have to agree that sort of thing would benefit from being intenalized, much the way Valve does with their games.

 

Stardock has some of the old Impulse technology in FE, it could have been done.  (question is whether taking those man-hours to put it in would have taken away from more important stuff- which I think is likely, Stardock's not that big)

 

 

Reply #36 Top

Quoting baddl, reply 35
There are numerous surprisingly detailed bug reports on the forum. The bad thing is that bugs are not acknowledged, let alone fixed. I would expect that testers take over, trying to reproduce the behavior, maybe asking questions, and then passing "tickets" on to the developers with sufficient detail.

Agree. Following FE development for two years, and some bugs are immediately acknowledged, meanwhile others are totally and systematically ignored. Some of the testers have some software development experience, and also put in enough hours into playing to know game intimately, and hence, you can find some quality reports out there.

Reply #37 Top

Quoting baddl, reply 34

So my only explanation is that some (most?) players just don't pay much attention to what is really happening.

If that's the only explanation you can come up with, you clearly are suffering from a distinct lack of imagination.

Having multiple crashes in an hour is not normal and that, along with many of the bugs you report, suggests to me that there is something specific to your playstyle or your computer that is causing you to experience problems that most people playing the game do not experience.

It's nice that you report bugs when you find them, but griefing the forums because your particular bug is not addressed in this patch is not cool.

And that's the only way to have fun with this game at present.

Frankly, reading your posts, I don't think it will ever be possible for you to have fun playing this game no matter how long you play.  It seems clear that you'll always be able to find some nit to pick.

Perhaps the best solution for you is to email Stardock support and ask for a refund.

Reply #38 Top

Quoting bpalczewski, reply 37

Following FE development for two years, and some bugs are immediately acknowledged, meanwhile others are totally and systematically ignored.

This is an information I would have loved to see before I purchased the game.

(Apparently some fellow players share the attitude you describe.)

 

Reply #39 Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 38
Frankly, reading your posts, I don't think it will ever be possible for you to have fun playing this game no matter how long you play. It seems clear that you'll always be able to find some nit to pick.

I know thats my problem... with every game! :( Please, My name is Kongdej, and I'm a nitpicker.. please help me ^_^

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #40 Top

Honestly I too am surprised by the low rate of feedback on bug reports we post in support. Most posts are not acknowledged, and most bugs reported are still there the patch after. FE is still a good game, but it seems that the crew is not responding since mid december.

Reply #41 Top

Quoting Nibelung44, reply 41
Honestly I too am surprised by the low rate of feedback on bug reports we post in support. Most posts are not acknowledged, and most bugs reported are still there the patch after. FE is still a good game, but it seems that the crew is not responding since mid december.

Maybe after a couple years of slaving away making FE they decided to take a little break.

Reply #42 Top

There is limited manpower at Stardock, and there are other projects (the expansion, the unannounced game)

 

Also, look how long it took Civ 5 to become playable.  Complicated strategy games often take a good while to sort the bugs out.

 

 

Reply #43 Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 42

Maybe after a couple years of slaving away making FE they decided to take a little break.

They aren't taking a break. They have all moved on, to the expansion or GalCiv 3 (*crosses fingers*). It honestly looks like there's only like 2 people working on bugfixes and the AI for FE right now. But don't worry, they are backporting fixes they accidentally make while working on the expansion. :\

 

Quoting Alstein, reply 43
Also, look how long it took Civ 5 to become playable.

You mean day 1? The only issues I ever had with Civ5 from the day it came out were minor graphical anomalies, and a couple design choices I didn't agree with.

Reply #44 Top

Quoting Sanati, reply 44
Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 42
Maybe after a couple years of slaving away making FE they decided to take a little break.

They aren't taking a break. They have all moved on, to the expansion or GalCiv 3 (*crosses fingers*). It honestly looks like there's only like 2 people working on bugfixes and the AI for FE right now. But don't worry, they are backporting fixes they accidentally make while working on the expansion.

 

Quoting Alstein, reply 43Also, look how long it took Civ 5 to become playable.

You mean day 1? The only issues I ever had with Civ5 from the day it came out were minor graphical anomalies, and a couple design choices I didn't agree with.

You must not have been looking at how the AI worked in Civ V.  There were all sorts of bugs that needed to be fixing.  I also had several crashes that were fixed with a patch, but crashing bugs are often dependent on your system.

Heck, even in November 2012 they were still fixing crashing bugs in a patch: http://store.steampowered.com/news/9427/

 

Reply #45 Top

Civ5 never crashed for me that I can remember, maybe because I don't use the DX9 version. I also didn't notice anything wrong with the AI, it actually seemed very well done, but certain games have probably lowered my expectations quite a bit.

Reply #46 Top

I suspect some bugs are being fixed by the folks working on the FE expansion- they'd said things get backfixed.  The real problem is that there are some long-standing bugs that haven't gotten attention- and that is something I don't remember GC2 having, though Elemental series is much more complicated than doing a space game.

 

 

Reply #47 Top

Quoting davrovana, reply 27
GFireflyE-

Oblivion was amazing, easily one of the best video games ever made. Morrowind's story was by the far the best. Overall, though, Skyrim is probably the best overall game of the three in terms of general quality. But how can I fault you for preferring Oblivion when it was so good? 

DAGGERFALL was the best of them all. The music the atmosphere the 150,000 actual square miles of exploration. I once started walking towards those mountains in the background and never made it. ;) These others are sooooo small and tiny in comparison to DAGGERFALL and Daggerfall's dungeons and crypts and castles and caves were to die for with spookiness and weird sounds and labyryths you could easily get lost in. There just was nothing like that in the latter versions.

Reply #48 Top

So are we still looking at a 1.2 release this week?  Haven't seen any chatter about this.  Maybe I missed an update.

Reply #49 Top

Next week ETA.

Reply #50 Top

Scheduled for release tomorrow.