Level 5-9 neutral champions

I don't agree, this would make wealthy even more powerful, if you want the high-level goodies you should have to pay for it.

The only thing that bothers me is they usually aren't worth the bacon.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Hiring champions is generally too expensive, especially now that it's much harder to get money.

Disagree.  It's harder for some factions to recruit heroes by design.  If your play style is to recruit lots of cheap champions, then play Altar, Kraxis, or a custom sovereign.

Recruit costs and Wealthy should be balanced. Imho technologies are excessive here.

I was thinking the other way around. I spent all this time to acquire the techs to obtain these level restricted heroes and than I get to them and they cost obscene amounts of gildar in addition to the tech requirements.

Imo, they should be at most 200-300 gildar. Not the 700-1200 that I've been seeing.

Got to keep in mind that gildar is constantly being used to propagate my empire. I'm not going to save up 30 turns of gold just for a single hero.

I think Wealthy is a little OP as is, it should be cut to 800, maybe 500.

I thik the hiring cost of champions should be way lower.  The level restrictions are good enough   

I would rather go along these lines, than touch the research, I don't mind the research since it is there to prevent me from finding a level 9 hero on turn 3, and just massacring everything with it.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

You guys want every faction to be able to do everything.  Forget it.  That's not fun.  Maybe Stardock will add a Sandbox mode so you can pick all the overpowered traits you want.  Altar and Kraxis need to be able to have their champion recruiting advantages over the other factions.  That makes them unique.  Remember all the whining about how the factions weren't unique enough and now you guys are asking that they all be the same again.  Sheesh.

Do not lower the costs of champions!  Do not decrease the Wealth trait!

tech IS required because like other said 2 guys would have champions too soon

also its required cause lvl 7 9 champions are verypowerful and having them at start would make sovereign bad and would allow you to steamroll everything

Yeah, I think i prefer the current system but I assume modding champions' costs and requirements won't be too difficult.

Techs are made-up and not neccesary requirement. Things should be as simple as possible. No need in piling up the game with a lot of unnecessary things. Can we live without techs here? We can. So no need in techs here. Recruit costs of lvl 7-9 champions can be high enough to prevent hiring them in early game, even with Wealthy. Wealthy needs a bit nerf.

Have to say, I'm with this.  If you want champions cheap, give your sovereign Natural Leader--but you'll sacrifice something else for it.  And yes, you will have to research the appropriate hero tech, which seems weird, but also entails a sacrifice in the form of techs you're not researching--but that's as it should be.  It's all about being offered choices, each with its own benefits and drawbacks.

I look at the tech requirement as proving to the hero that you are dedicated. You learned somthing that entices that hero to fight for you.

Trojasmic has a good point. 

I agree with Trojasmic. It's very easy to specialize your towns to producing wealth. We have these differences to promote alternate styles of play. If you don't like the purchase cost of the higher level heroes then we can talk about it. How about sacrificing a certain level of item to hire the hero, or a quest? The tech cost is there to put brakes on the hero system so that it doesn't get out of control and ruin the game. Don't like, then please have a reasonable alternative to controlling the hiring cost.

I think they are a bit too expensive.  By the time I can afford them, they are typically too low a level compared to my first hero and Sov to be useful.

It would be nice if one of the technologies could reduce the cost of champion recruitment, though.

FE reminds me somewhat of Age of Kings (Age of Empires 2). In that game, if you played a certain civilization, there were only 1 or 2 main strategies for victory, because each civilization was VERY tailored to a certain play style. However, in later incarnations of the AoE series, they added some additional flexibility and choice when leveling up, which retained the special flavor and feel of that civilization, but also didn't lock you into only one viable strategy for victory.

My point is, while the game can be specialized by civilization, it should also be flexible enough that you could win with a non-specialized strategy. What if you're playing as Porcipinee and you aren't near any mana? Quit? Or what if you're Markin and not near any metal? There should be the ability to adapt your strategy as the game progresses, and using research to do that seems like a reasonable game mechanic.

there is an improvement that reduces champion recruit cost (adventurer's guild) already, that being said I think everyone here is right to some extent.  I personally think champion costs are probably a *little* too high, but as Trojasmic mentioned it is still important to keep the perks that reduce champion costs important. Expect them to come down a little bit, but not enough as to render those traits useless

Champions are not created equal. 

Some are worth their weight in gold, like the spider riding, lightning bow shooting, 25% crit assassin with 3 death and 3 something else.

Some are amazing for their abilities, like the 30% unrest reducing, road building, population increasing governor.

Some have insane potential, like the assassin with the warrior damage perk, Earth magic, who pays his own wages.

And then you have level 5s with 1 trait and crappy gear, or level 9 with no real strength who need hundred of xpt to level.

It only makes sense that some of them will be VERY expensive, and some of them will be cheaper.  But to have Karavox being able to recruit the likes of Thanalia on turn 1 is just silly. And then again, it is a single player game...

I love you, that was all that crossed my own mind (It still needs to be somewhat expensive to purchase high level champs)

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

I agree with this: techs and gildar needed.

With gold being a more precious commodity, adjustments to champion recruitment is appreciated. As always, thanks, Toby.

The only change that I really want to see on most of the high level champions is for them to have all the perks that they would have had if I had recruited them as level 1 champions and developed them to level 5-9 for whatever purpose/skillset that they seem to have been worked towards. As has been said, there are a few high-level champions that are great, but most of them feel like a waste of money - great, you're level 9 and have 3 traits and one level 2 magic skill. Why should I pay you 1200 gildar to join me, exactly? (Note: I made that one up, I don't think I've come across one quite that bad yet).

If you're going to put a high-level governor type champion on the map, then at least give him/her enough traits to match his/her level and specialization so that I don't have to carry around a champion who cannot fight well in an army just to try to make it reasonably worthwhile to have that champion. Similarly, if I find a recruitable champion with "Path of the Warrior/Defender/Assassin/Mage" I don't want him/her to have traits like Administrator II (although the Merchant and Loremaster line of traits I am more than happy to have on anyone), I want him/her to have traits that emphasize whatever Path was chosen.

Also, too many of them are path of the mage with weakness.  I feel like there are a million of these guys around, and they often don't even fit the description of the trog with the big battle axe that has lived by the sword...is a mage with the weakness trait carrying a big axe.  Hmm.