harmonius_

Level 5-9 neutral champions

Level 5-9 neutral champions

Level 5-9 neutral champions require gildar cost and technologies. Imho technologies is excessive requirement. If you see champion and have enough money, you should be able to recruit him/her. It is annoying that you can't recruit champion because of you haven't specific technologies.

104,756 views 35 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting joeball123, reply 25
The only change that I really want to see on most of the high level champions is for them to have all the perks that they would have had if I had recruited them as level 1 champions and developed them to level 5-9 for whatever purpose/skillset that they seem to have been worked towards. As has been said, there are a few high-level champions that are great, but most of them feel like a waste of money - great, you're level 9 and have 3 traits and one level 2 magic skill. Why should I pay you 1200 gildar to join me, exactly? (Note: I made that one up, I don't think I've come across one quite that bad yet).

If you're going to put a high-level governor type champion on the map, then at least give him/her enough traits to match his/her level and specialization so that I don't have to carry around a champion who cannot fight well in an army just to try to make it reasonably worthwhile to have that champion. Similarly, if I find a recruitable champion with "Path of the Warrior/Defender/Assassin/Mage" I don't want him/her to have traits like Administrator II (although the Merchant and Loremaster line of traits I am more than happy to have on anyone), I want him/her to have traits that emphasize whatever Path was chosen.

Or if you don't want to do that then give us an easy to use Champion creator so we can add champs we create to the maps (ala. AOW:SM)

Reply #27 Top

There are definitely too many path of the mage champions - any given player only really needs one such champion, they're all drawing from the same very limited mana pool, there's just not room for two dedicated nukers. As opposed to sword-swinging champions, the more of those the merrier. There are also, more generally speaking, too many champions with paths and traits that just don't match up - they're weak even if you do need a champion of that particular path.

Easy solution: don't put a 'path' trait on any champion by default, give the level 5+ ones an extra normal trait or two instead. Then the next time such a champion levels, have the five paths pop up: let the player choose which specialization is appropriate to the champ's existing traits, gear, and the overall kingdom's needs. Please, no more finding weak mages when my sovereign is already a far better caster with far too little mana to spend, let the player turn them into something else.

Reply #28 Top

Lord Xia brought up a good point - a lot of times the champions don't feel like they match their descriptions very well (and a lot of times these ones are 'Path of the Mage' and claim to be great warriors formerly in the service of so-and-so), and on top of that have a negative trait. I think that if a champion has a negative trait at recruitment time, he or she should get at least one extra trait above what they should have for their level for each negative trait, depending on just how negative the negative trait is - the 'Weak' trait is the only one I can think of right now that I've seen, but it really limits the hero to being developed into either a mage or a governor, possibly an assassin, because it takes too much luck with item drops (getting a Belt of Strength or an Enchanted Backpack or lots of Strength Scrolls for each of them) or a fair number of relatively poor traits (Strength comes to mind - you don't need it if you can find a Belt of Strength or Enchanted Backpack, and it does nothing for you other than allow you to equip heavier equipment) in order to compensate for being 'Weak'.  Also, why exactly is it that I can still take traits like 'Strong' if I also have 'Weak' - shouldn't these be mutually exclusive (hooray for the 'Strong' and heavily-'Muscle'-d but 'Weak' champions and designable units! Is 'Muscle' even a champion trait?).

Reply #29 Top

Quoting Bellack, reply 26

Or if you don't want to do that then give us an easy to use Champion creator so we can add champs we create to the maps (ala. AOW:SM)

 

+1

Reply #30 Top

Instead of just gildar, what about gildar + influence. (same as negotiating with other sovs)

So by adding influence, you can reduce the cost in gildar.

 

Also, have champs who have chosen path of the governor, only gain experience when they are stationed in a city.

What is the point of having my uber administrator out in the fields tacked onto an army just to get experience.

Reply #31 Top

The biggest issue I'm having right now is that, as far as I can tell, when I hire a champion I'm paying for both him and his supporting army.  It's the only reason I can think of for having one level 7 champion cost ~400 gildar for having a pair of solitary troop guards, while a level 7 champion with an elemental guard costs nearly 1200 gildar.  Neither champion has any unique ability, like calling a slag or chain lightning.  They're just regular mage champions. (I do not remember the names of these champions, and will look it up tomorrow night, when I have time.)

Reply #32 Top

Quoting jel1, reply 31
Instead of just gildar, what about gildar + influence. (same as negotiating with other sovs)

So by adding influence, you can reduce the cost in gildar.

Also, have champs who have chosen path of the governor, only gain experience when they are stationed in a city.

What is the point of having my uber administrator out in the fields tacked onto an army just to get experience.

This is a sentiment I hear all the time, but which I do not understand.  My governors are out in the field a lot.  Actually, they are usually the ones who end up leading my armies.

In my current AAR (which by turn 150ish is more or less won, ridiculous, large map) I ended up with two governors, Gaylyn and Janusk. 

In the very early game (turn 50ish), I used Gaylyn to grow cities fast, and to boost the defense against shrills wandering out of Curgen's tomb.

In the early game (turn 80ish), I used the two governors to allow border cities to get to level 2 without suffering unrest while building government buildings.

In the mid game (turn 110ish) , the governors were keeping newly conquered cities producing and researching at the best rates.

And by the end of the game (after turn 129) the governors are leading armies, and conquering cities. Their unrest bonuses come in great once they take a city, and they get extra levels that allow them to hold their own in the field. Janusk has been the star of my last update, and I really do not see what purpose would be served by crippling governors by preventing them from learning from combat.

 

 

Reply #33 Top

Quoting Tuidjy, reply 33

Quoting jel1, reply 31Instead of just gildar, what about gildar + influence. (same as negotiating with other sovs)

So by adding influence, you can reduce the cost in gildar.

Also, have champs who have chosen path of the governor, only gain experience when they are stationed in a city.

What is the point of having my uber administrator out in the fields tacked onto an army just to get experience.

This is a sentiment I hear all the time, but which I do not understand.  My governors are out in the field a lot.  Actually, they are usually the ones who end up leading my armies.

In my current AAR (which by turn 150ish is more or less won, ridiculous, large map) I ended up with two governors, Gaylyn and Janusk. 

In the very early game (turn 50ish), I used Gaylyn to grow cities fast, and to boost the defense against shrills wandering out of Curgen's tomb.

In the early game (turn 80ish), I used the two governors to allow border cities to get to level 2 without suffering unrest while building government buildings.

In the mid game (turn 110ish) , the governors were keeping newly conquered cities producing and researching at the best rates.

And by the end of the game (after turn 129) the governors are leading armies, and conquering cities. Their unrest bonuses come in great once they take a city, and they get extra levels that allow them to hold their own in the field. Janusk has been the star of my last update, and I really do not see what purpose would be served by crippling governors by preventing them from learning from combat.

 

 
Perhaps 'only' was a bit strong. I'd still like to see part of choosing the Govenor path is that they can gain experience sitting in a city.

Reply #34 Top

I support tech + gildar.

Apart from buildings, there are powerfull custom traits that can be hero-oriented: betrayers + natural leader makes you to easy have all heroes you can find, so this can only be restricted by tech. Using it I had 7 heroes in little time...for less than 50-100 gildar each

That is, beause I accepted the negative trait that increases the cost of recruiting, i think it is "cruel" (not sure now) but it is a good bussiness with natural leader: getting both means u dont use trait points (-1 for NL, +1 for cruel = 0)  and get +1 attack, and the recruiting cost resultant is around 30-200 gildar for hero, so something might be wrong with this combo and the final cost of recruiting.

Reply #35 Top

In 0.99 Natural Leader talent is replaced by Adventurer Sov Profession, and Cruel's other effect is now to add unrest to all your cities (Faction-Wide Unrest).