HAHA, you imply you can kill a Vasari fleet without the defensive complex that he just went around?

Or the VRs can give their mobile starbase the phase node upgrade, and bring it with them. 

You counter the above by fully upgrading your valuable planets with Sbs and static defenses.

Way to not read...

@pontifex that works too

Powerful argument, if we assume that while you are blowing money to fortify your eco planets, the enemy sits still and fiddle his thumbs.

Now, in the real world, competent players will curb stomp your shit silly while you are half way securing your economy and, oh i dont know, NOT feeding your allies or fleeting up.

So basically your saying that you can't counter anything with a starbase and defenses. :p A majority of MP games don't even last that long to begin with so its a moot point.

Not with the static defense, no. At best, it is a stop gap measure to buy time.

Defense line dont win wars.

Are you French or something? Because if i recall correctly, French had this maginot line, and we all know how well that IMPENETRABLE defense fiasco went.

MP games usually cascade to a leaving parade after vasari fleet shops up at the back yard of your eco hub worlds and start eating the planets. There is literally nothing you can do to counter that. You wont even have the time to build your eco to the point where you can spamm star bases at each world care free.

This sentence alone give me all the information I need to gauge your skill level. They say Impossible is possible.... You just proved them right. 

Bring right fleet (400 fleet suply is more than enough) with you and all but vasa rebel titan die in less than 3 min or run from fight in shame.

Just another thing you guys are forgetting

What about overseers? 30 of them can defend orky against 30 torpedo cruisers.... 

You mean bombers? Right? Right fleet for titan killing is carriers.

VR, AR and both tecs have more than enought AOE abilites, that if they are not AM starved and lvl 3+, they can hurt 400pop fleet that do not fully consist of carriers.

And the problem with running is that titan won, it got away, got the exp and maybe even killed something. Interdicting titans is had due to fairly good speed and regen.

But yeah, general problem is the VR cheese titan. Others are more or less in line with the cost/risk factors involved with the investment.

Are you sure you can judge someone's skill based on that? Have you considered other possibilities?

Like maybe trying to level the titan up in a rapid manner? It takes forever to get it to a useful level when its with a fleet of other ships. Maybe I did it for the lulz? Maybe I wanted to see what it could and could not take? There are plenty of reasons for as to why I decided to send it out on its own, and especially since you guys say its OP it should be fine on its own right right? :p

I would do face palm as well but just for the sake of it

You do know that when ship gets damaged you can retreat and repair right? 

@Siddy

No bombers don't work well against titan until they reach certain threshold and if he has just a few corvetes and fighters that threshold level raises exponentially .

You said what solution is yourself. drain it am and it is big sitting duck just awaiting to be killed,

2 caps with lvl 2 drain upgrade are enough to get it am starved for anything below and including lvl 3 titan. 3 caps for more than that unless it is  vasa rebel which will drain your am from your caps (= no abilities) or advent rebel lvl6 or above.; You can safely assume he will have ultimate on that titan which is +600% AM regeneration if I am not mistaken. 

That is 100 or 150 fleet supply. Rest whatever you want. I prefer 20 HC with few hoshis and if you can 1-2 cielo. If I catch tit alone perhaps I will loose 1-2 cielo and couple of hoshis before titan dies.   

Yup you can also use the skintra carrier for repairs, or the nano leech. Also one of the ships has reactive armor that it can apply until its gets damaged beyond a certain point. I think its the overseer.

Though sometimes its better to let the titan go down fighting so it gets as much XP as possible then you can rebuild it and reallocate the ability points to better suit whatever new situation pops up.

I meant this threat as a Vasari Rebel Mobile Star Base discussion, not the VR titan discussion. The main problem is that even at tier 8, IT STILL COMES TOO EARLY IF YOU RUSH FOR IT. The vasari rebel can turtle, build 8 military labs on 3 worlds (almost always a given in MP games) and have researched the phase jump before anyone could do a damn thing about it. A VR player can get a mobile star base before another person could rush for a titan. Given the size and composition of early game fleets, even a un-upgraded vasari rebel star base is a SERIOUS threat at this point of the game, once you sink in a few weapon and armor upgrades, its nearly unstoppable.

Sure there are ogrovs and adjudicators, but these are expensive, build slowly, and are VERY vulnerable to s player who can maneuver the star base into the formation and screw up the targeting (on at least ogrovs, their turning is slow and a skilled player can move their star base through their lines, then go back and forth to do maximum damage and avoid much of the ogrovs firepower).

In short, it either needs several pre-reqs in the defense tree or needs to be able unable to jump to enemy wells. As it stands now, its a beta 1 titan and we saw how bad those were nerfed.

How can you rush this, it takes a huge economy to get to level 8 research techs, and thats going to take a long time with three planets only, especially if its just a Terran and some roids or maybe a desert or ice planet thrown in.

Not to mention the money they will need to defend themselves from attack from a player thats expanded further and thus has more resorces to thow into fleet production.

Can someone just give this guy a replay, pleeeaaaseee...

Just how fast are you playing the game then if you can rush to that level? On three worlds?

I play at 1x speed I have no idea how fast most online peoples play but I am assuming its around 2 or 3x If everything is set to max level then I can see how someone would think its rushed.

While defending or attacking it takes me 20 min to get Phase jumping sb 

If that fleets jumps on a TEC starbase then RED BUTTON is fleet.... look at is now very lonely titan!!

RED BUTTON STRATAGA!!! Make him fear those stations...

Even if he jumps is skirmisher after your fleet of carrier you should have another stations behind where you jump, it will take is skirmishers... since with either a repair station a few hoshiko or a docking boon they are pretty effective... so you either go Defence/suicide mines or you prevent him from pumping stations and titan by going on the offence early, hunt out is research labs with a few scout with demo charges, etc...

It's takes 8 military lab, to speed research that, If you econ is up you should be able to pump enough harassment stuff to keep him on the defense.  A lvl 0 station is very expensive to pump, if you let him build stations and .

edit : oups I made a mistake there it's not 8 labs

I think that if they made SB actually need 8 labs to be able to phase jump it would go a long way towards balancing orky that is able to phase jump at least in 1v1 scenario.

There is still big problem for 3v3 and above where guy is sandwiched between 2 allies,

Proposed changes for the Jumping Orky:

1. Alter the 'colonies' upgrade to also include the trade port income bonus:

Each level would grant a population and trade bonus, albeit a smaller one of each than the separate upgrades.

The maximum upgrade level would be increased by 1 or 2.

2. Use the freed up starbase upgrade slot for a 'Starbase Jump Engine' upgrade. 2 levels: 

Level 1: Jump systems. High AM jump cost, On arrival it does not shoot for 30~60secs (or whatever) while power is rerouted to weapons systems. Adds a bit to AM pool.

Level 2: Auxiliar power generator. Lower AM jump cost, no 'power down' on jump arrival, -10% cooldown for weapons and abilities, adds some to AM pool. The aux. power gotta be good for something when the Orky is not jumping, thus the reduced weapon cooldown. I don't consider it OP'ing the OP because 2 SB levels are being used to receive this bonus.

3. Make the SB jump ability actually need 8 military labs built to be useable.

4. Make the SB upgrade also cost 1~2 captains and 50~150 fleet supply. Given its power, I advocate 2 captains and 150 fleet, just like the Titan.

5. Make the tier-8 upgrade require at least  the full Titan research line.

I actually think 4 is the most important limiting factor to regulate its power, since fleet supply will be reduced for support frigates and cruisers. But for it to happen, 1 and 2 need to be implemented the per-Orkulus optional jump engine upgrade. 

3 is interesting to give an alternate strategy to stop the jumping Orkulus. 

Problem is, that the titty will not sit still and die, it will just go away.

VR titty is AM sucking whore, and AR can just eat guardians for shields, armor and AM.

I am not saying that titans are all powerful, and true enough, the 5 other titans are more or less balanced compared to VR monstrosity.

But yeah, once the AR titan reaches certain point, bringing fleet against it is as useless as bringing fleet against VR titan. Only difference is, that with AR, you have to actually work for it, and not get it free + moving orkulus rexes to support it in its rampage.

There isn't much whine going on about the other titans, other than maybe the useless coronate. Mainly the VR is the one what is just OP.

Here's the thing though: the Vasari rebel titan obsolete both frigates AND capitalships(300 AM from every capitalship will very quickly render capitalships out of AM and thus more or less useless).

But here's the thing: there's no such thing barring the vasari rebels from using frigates and capitalships....and frankly there's no chance in hell of another race's titan beating the vasari rebel titan WITH a frigate/capitalship fleet alone(nor should there be).  The thing is is no titan is ever going to be able to beat the enemy titan+fleet alone it's thoroughly unbalanced for a titan to completely obsolete frigates & capitalships(as that force the enemy to pretty much only have a titan agains the combined might of your titan+frigates+capitalships).

 And that's before we even get into their phase jumping starbases and the fact that the vasari rebels have the best frigate fleet combat techs in the game(+25% hull +5 armor in one tech? +20% damage on what is already bar none the strongest weapon type in the game? shield techs almost on par with advent ones? no one else even comes close).

Back in beta

The way races were added other races had balance patches. Vasari had none they are still in same state as they were added no changes whatsoever other than SB phase jump.