Titans don't loose their level when killed

Well, destroying the enemy's Titan means it won't be destroying YOU, and clears the way for YOUR Titan.

If you lost your Titan and it went back to level 1, you would basically have just lost the entire game.

This has been discussed a lot on this forum and the general consensus seems to be that its problematic. On one end its silly to kill a titan and see it at the same lvl 10 minutes later. I does feel like a usless venture to kill them. The flip side is that in late game, especialy in multiplayer, he (or she) who losses thier titan first loses the game, and thats a bad place to boil a game down too. Worse than that, the lvl 6 ability of the Advent Rebel Titan would be really dumb (Ive advocated the nature of the ability be changed anyway) as you only get to use iot by losing your titan and being back to square one. Comprimises sugested range from, have iot cost more to build the higher lvl it gets, to have it lose a couple lvls, but not all, so it hurts but at high lvl doesnt completly screw you. Also ive seen it sugested that you can have a actual spawn time, where you cant rebuild the titan until the timer is up. I think any of these could go a long way to making it a little less weird...

I tried promoting the idea that the level is only kept up to level 4, anything beyond is reset to level 4 with the XP being reduced to the XP limit for that level. In addition they could get a high tier research that increases the level cap to 6 and the XP to the corresponding level limit.

There have been many proposes about how you could just take away half their XP, their level or just reduce it to 1 again.

Personally I can see the problem with Titans being level 1 again after dying, it's hard to get back into the game. Unlike Caps titans cannot be leveled by money like regular caps so you cannot give them a monetary boost to reduce the impact of the previous loss.

And if you just half their XP/level that seems kinda random to me.

Increasing the costs of a new titan doesn't seem to make much sense, logically. Why should building the same ship cost more than building the previous one?

Increasing the build timer might be a good idea considering you increase the XP of the ship as well, but it should be a sensible change proportional to the XP the ship now has. A ship that is 30% stronger shouldn't take hree times as long to build.

I can meet ya half way with the level being cut back when it's rebuilt. I also like the idea of the higher level your titan was when it died, the longer it takes to rebuild.

I just don't agree with the way it's setup now is all.

I agree. At the least a ever increasing build time every time you lose it is needed, perhaps losing a level or two or say 30% of exp if that still isn't enough. But starting at level 1 or even level 4 if the other titans are higher level will just lead to your titan getting continuously slaughtered by the titans that didn't lose their levels.

Which is why I suggested to research an increase in level keep up to 6, enough to keep your ultimate if needed. This further decreases the impact of losing it later into the game and at the same time keeps frigates as viable counter early on.

A lower level titan still has a chance to win against a higher level one given the right situation. In a 1 vs 1 titan fight that's not the case, of course. But with a protective fleet that's a whole other deal. If it is fully possible to kill a titan even without another titan (frigates in numbers drop it pretty fast actually) I don't see the problem if you might get a small penalty in losing the titan. The whole ordeal with the leveling being kept was about how frigates would just feed a titan and players could just suicide them into enemies to level up.

The hardcoded limit at level 4/6 makes them a reliable counter again, imposes a viable earlygame/lategame penalty and still keeps titans as viable option lategame. A level 10 titan is about 40% stronger than a level 6 one, that's managable unless your titan is everything you have (in which case you are pretty much screwed :p).

Edit: oh my typos

Any killed "ships/vessels" should be reset to level 1. Nothing more to say about it. No dead things can keep their experience nomatter what. You all want realism across the board but why accept this? The most unrealistic feature of them all...

Clearly this means the Advent are going to rule the world because the Progenitor Mothership will enable an Advent player to re-level their titan instantly. I'm ok with this but the rest of you lot might want to think it over.

It's been said so many times I don't know why we keep going over this.

"A Titan should lose one level and have no progress to the next level upon being killed."

This punishes higher level more than early, maintains them as a threat and if you want you can throw in the increased build duration but I'd say that should only kick in if the Titan is above level 6 because their ultimates are where they really start being dangerous (unless you're an Advent rebel).

Have you ever watched Star trek ?

Unlike navel fleets , star ships would have huge crews doing upgrades on ship systems as they was in service and these would have a resource cost and man power/time cost like anything else.

So taking more time and upping cost of the new titan would make perfect sense. I would even give 2 options for the next titan built. Either pay prices and get a 10% x lvl on cost as time to build. So if it was level 10 you be looking at double the time and cost to rebuild. Or if you in a mad rush you can use option 2 to just build a level 1 one.

Remember when Voyageur went away she was just a new ship in the fleet. When she come back she was most advanced ship in the quadrant.

I also think ship levels should also have a cost and I don't mean the buying levels on caps, but that is for another thread.

Uh, don't point at other fiction to prove a point you can easily use real world analogues with.

Leveling a Capital ship or Titan does seem to be related to crew efficiency and not to "upgrading the hardware using money", that is what research upgrades do. Of course it seems weird that a new ship with a new crew would initially be more efficient than the previous one. But I would write that off as a matter of having studied the effectivity and backdraws of your previous titan in battle, leading to a better training of the crew.

And since training experience can only get you so far it would also make perfect sense if the maxium level you could retain was capped at some point, indicating the lack of actual combat experience of the new crew.

Titans keeping their level is a dumbing down of the game, pure and simple.

That goes for the Devs and those of us stuck with the decision.

Havent heard any reason from the developers why for the first time in Sins, a unit gets to keep its level after being destroyed.

Personally I like this, I like knowing there's going to be the challenge of my past enemies titan's coming back stronger than ever.

People need to stop complaining about it, it's here for a reason. And it is an investment to get a titan. If you win a fight with two titans in it, the titan who didn't die gets the experience and possible level up the time it takes to rebuild the other titan is punishment enough. This mechanic does not need to be changed.

Why should it go back any levels at all? That would be like a country losing a jet then having to go back to biplanes. Once you learn something you don't lose that knowledge just because it gets destroyed.

The same could be said about capital ships, yeah? Not a good point to defend the cause with. Instead of using analogies just use logic, if you even lose one level by the death of a titan not only do you have to rebuild the titan and gain back that level. But your opponent just got alot of experience from killing that titan and is continuing to gain experience a best, and is still ahead at worst.

The titan system is fine people.

So the game then becomes two level ten Titans battling it out? Forever?

If your stupid enough to lose a Titan that's one thing...to take your brand new level one Titan IMMEDIATLY to battle against another Titan...you deserve to lose.

This is a strategy game. Not a throw my Titan at anything cause another clone is in the wings......

Do you want to know why Titans keep their level? It's because when they were being designed and everyone said BIGGER IS BETTER they actually realised at one point that they couldn't fit any more weapons on to it but still had tons of space left over. So one clever chap said, "well this whole losing your level when a capital ship dies thing is really annoying so let's include these newfangled things I just invented called 'escape pods' in all that leftover space". So that's what they did and the rest, as they say, is history.

i like the titans as is but there needs to be some penalty for losing a titan over than just reseting it to lvl 1

Okay fine mr smartass NovaStalker lets go with that. However this should actually be implemented as a game mechanic for Titans and not left as an imaginary explanation for a fictional universe in a video game. It is a great idea but needs some expounding upon and I would be all for it. For the record I am fine with Titans as they are but would also be fine with a mechanic that enables the Titans to keep their levels.

Smartass? That's kind of harsh and entirely inaccurate since I wasn't being sarcastic.

How about just ass, then? Cause that attitude you showed there was neither professional nor helpful .

Wow, more than one idiot in the same thread. Ok how about I don't need to be professional or helpful? Especially since I've already been 'helpful' in this thread and calling me unprofessional has nothing to do with anything. If both of you cretins need to get so worked up over a light hearted mock explanation as to why Titans keep their level then I don't know what to say. Lighten up? Don't insult people without any cause? Just plain go away?