How I see beta 2 Rebellion sides

Pretty much. I would rather describe the Advent Rebels like a zombie horde but Al Quaida is also well thought of lol.

I like to think of the advent rebels and their Titan as the Phoenix as they are purified and reborn tue unity shall be reborn 

The Al Qaeda connection is lost on me.

It has to do with the sacrificing of ships and populace in order to do massiv damage to your enemies. Al Quaida "offers" people as well in order to terrorize others (basically they are just extremely fanatic believers and are convinced they will be awared in heaven for their sacrifice).

Yes Teun-A-Roonie you get what I am trying to say.  They are the Fanatics of the Advent. I believe that is the real split between the Loyalist and the Rebel Advent.  They are the Terrorist Nation of the Game.

Well yeah, but they're Necromancers, death is actually nothing to them, and they know it. It's less fanaticism and more... flaunting their power, at least that's how I see it.

If anything I'd call the crazy mass brainwashing revenge-fueled Loyalists fanatics.

I would say the rebel advents are simply having their PMS and when it clears up things will go back to normal

If that's true we are going to need a Midol about 2 miles in diameter to end this...  ( backs out of the room slowly    )

More than likely the corruption in the unity has something to do with whatever is chasing the Vasari, the loyalist Advent are actually weakening the defenses of the 3 races to make way for whatever is chasing the Vasari and the Advent Rebels see this or at the least feel it.

Yeah see the Advent Rebels haven't really changed all that much, they've gone from "kill the TEC, assimilate everything else" to "kill whatever made us want to kill the TEC, we're supposed to be PACIFISTS, dammit! Now you there, go bomb that planet."

While that's possible, wouldn't you think a bigger influence would be the formerly non-Advent that have joined the Unity forcibly? Or, even if they weren't forced to join... you have telepaths in the same room with prisoners of war. Before the war, everyone was of the same goals and aspirations, now... it's gotta be complicated.

I would concede that maybe what set them on the path to attack now is probably related, though.

Not quite. The TEC Rebels aren't pirates, they don't care any more about money or treasure than the loyalists. They're a sort of zenophobic and very angry mob, tired of being of being pushed back for two decades and are determined to massacre the invaders and reclaim all of trader space.

Likewise lore wise I see the Advent Rebels lore wise as being more like the Protest Reformation than current extremist groups (though perhaps at the time some would have considered them extremists). They're not suicide bombers, they're martyrs sacrifice themselves to make their own group stronger, not to inflict damage. And as mentioned they apparently have quite a bit of control over life and death now, if you had that sort of power of course you'd use it.

When I play Rebels it isn't to long and my only ships are my Titan, Capital Ship, and Pirate vessels.  You might have some thing with them being like the Protestants. But I did not see any power to bring in entire planet back to life.  Yes, they have had suicide bombers before in ship wise. Now it is a planet size. Your not a Martyr in any religion if you commit suicide. I still say the TEC Rebels are Pirates and that Advent are Sins Terrorists 

huh... just remembered that useless tech 'martyrdom'... that could actually be useful now... 

They decided to ally with the pirates for their own gain, but they really just want to commit genocide, or close to it, on the Vasari and Advent. Pirates don't have that sort of ideology, they only care about money.

Also, are you playing the most recent beta? I think the pirate ships suck now, they aren't that good and now cost resources as well. Sure they don't spam your fleet supply but still.

Not a planet, but they can bring back their ships back to life (or they are supposed to, that tech isn't working right.

On the seeker vessel yes, but the loyalists have that ability too.

No? I thought anyone who died for their religion was a martyr (at least in the eyes of that religion). Maybe most Christian martyrs didn't kill themselves directly because they thought their god would send them to hell for it, but many clearly did things they knew would get themselves killed. Romanus of Caesare (and many others during the great Persecution), Jan Hus, and perhaps even Sir Thomas Moore certainly knew their actions would very likely lead to their deaths.

Other religions do not necessarily have this taboo on suicide however. In paganism suicide was a common fate for those who picked the wrong side in political disputes (Cleopatra), or occasionally was ordered by the state as a more noble way of execution (Socrates and Seneca for example). Al Qaeda certainly thinks their suicide bombers are martyrs.

Actually, I see the Advent loyalists more like the Catholic church during the Crusades.  Their goal is to return their religion to their holy land, while the Rebels are more like the Christian protestant church.  They perceive some corruption (either real or imagined) and seek to break away from their parent group.

The seekers ramming enemy ships were kamikazes, not suicide bombers.

The difference? One is a soldier trying to take his enemies with him, the other is a terrorist out to incite shock and fear.

Speaking of which, terrorists tend not to aim their "terrorism" at military assets, which almost all of the things you've listed so far do (including Wail of the Sacrificed.) The reason being is that the common people and the government are far more effected by an act of extreme violence against civilian populaces, like say, ramming a plane into a tightly packed building, or dropping two nukes on civilian cities, than they would be by someone blowing up a military base.

The entire point of terrorism is to inflict fear and horror and force your enemies to surrender or conform to your demands, how you do it is mostly irrelevent, but always involves extreme violence.

The Advent Rebels are just using their power of life and death as a military asset, they can revive capital ship crews by implanting them into new bodies, they can bring entire ships back to life on the battlefield, their ships willingly allow their Titan to use them to repair itself.

It's safe to say that for the Advent Rebels, dead doesn't mean dead.

However, if you want a real example of Advent Terrorism, look at Mass Hysteria, or hell, planet bombing in general across all 3 races. It's treated as trite in game, but think about what's actually going on there for a minute.

Edit - ... Did I really just make a post about terrorism on the Sins forum of all places?

Religion + Opinions = Argument

That gives me an Idea... I could spend not too much supply to make a whole lot of scouts, and then send them to sacrifice themselves, after inflicting as much damage as possible first.  Imagine you are on of the scout ships...

"Shields down Captain, and the hull is taking heavy damage!" yelled the low-level acolyte.  The captain closed her eyes.  "It's time," she thought.  She reached out with her mind to her crew, feeling the bright auras of power that marked the women, and the slightly dimmer ones that marked the men.  They all went slack in the physical world, but in the physic realm they were concentrating fiercely.  They all drew their power up, and the air began crackling from all the energy.  Then they released their hold on their physical bodies, and died.  All of their power was released.  The ship, being programmed for this, blows it generator to add to the explosion.  A nearby frigate is torn apart, and then two more.  A fourth is irreparably damaged, and limps away before exploding in a brilliant flash of light. 

The lingering spirit of the Captain is satisfied, and fades away.

Across the battlefield, another Captain thinks, "It's Time".

I fancy myself a writer.  What do you think?  This is what is going on inside the scout ships before they use Martyrdom.

From what I've read...

TEC Loyalists: have decided the advance has gone far enough and that the entrenchment did not go far enough.  They dig in harder and deeper, hiding behind the Ankylon and Argonevs.

TEC Rebels: furious with the aliens and exiles that have attempted to eradicate them, they have decided that xenocide is the only remaining option.  Destroy everything in your path or be destroyed.  It is time to stop withdrawing and time to lash out.

Advent Loyalists: simply seek to kill or absorb the infidels.

Advent Rebels: fearing corruption in the Unity, they have broken away to sterilize themselves.  They are by far the more zealous of the two factions as they seek to purge the evil they believe has crept into the Advent.  They probably presume this is due to the large influx of people that were not previously part of it and so wish to destroy that ulcer of the Unity and proceed to annihilate the TEC and Vasari if they get in their way.

Also, I keep hearing that the Advent Rebels have the power to bring back ships and it sounds like a researchable.  How is that supposed to work?

Sterilize themselves? Where do you get that from?

I don't know if they are more zealous, the loyalist are clearly more determined to convert others. Their titan says something like "We will make their minds join us" or something.

Rather I think the Rebels have indeed sensed something wrong, and unlike the loyalist they believe that they need to discover the source of this more than converting others or getting revenge on the TEC. In doing so they seemed to have reached another level of transcendence that gives them their extraordinary power over life and death.

That said, we have absolutely no details as to what this problem in the unity is. Your guess that its the recently assimilated people into the unity is as good as anyone elses guess. But I personally think that it has something to do with whatever is chasing the Vasari, and as they are coming closer they are managing to disrupt the unity, either as a result of being telepathic as well or perhaps some side affect of their technology. But again, we know absolutely nothing about this issue.

Well, we don't know for sure, as this tech doesn't work. But the tooltip says destroyed ships will respawn at your homeworld, and their are two research levels that increase this by 5% each, so maxed out it sounds like whenever one of their ships are destroyed there is a 10% chance it gets revived at the home world.

When I say sterilize themselves, I don't mean that.  I mean remove the corrupt parts of the Unity.

It would certainly be interesting if they are detecting the thing that is chasing the Vasari.

I agree with what you are saying that it is ether the hostility absorbed into the Unity. Or more likely it is just the paranoia of over zealot lead psychics.  The power over life and death has been in the game the whole time.  level 6 and beyond of the Colonies Capital ship.  Once again Tel A ban of the Sin Universe.  You talked about terrorism not being on military targets. I think of 911. As well as terrorist attacks on US soldiers. I have friends out there that are US military people. So don't tell me terrorism can not be against military. As well killing of an entire planets population as your bomb. That is Terrorism.

Yes, it has always been there, and let's look at the Advent Loyalists for a moment, their theme is domination and control, mind control. Much like the Advent Rebels ability to bring the dead back, the Advent have always had the ability to mind control people, with the Rapture Battlecruiser, and a few more subtle things in their diplomacy tree.

What's important to note is that the two factions are taking these two themes of death/rebirth and dominaton/control, and dialing them up to 11. The Advent Rebels resurrect their destroyed ships and temporarilly revive enemy ships for their use, their people are willing to sacrifice themselves to harm the enemy or repair their Titan, knowing full well that death isn't the end for them. The Loyalists mind control entire planets, forcibly take control of mines and ships, forcing everyone to their cause, anyone who resists is killed.

Also keep in mind that the Advent aren't... really a religion, their use of terms like defilers and heathens has more to do with them seeing themselves as pure and enlightened, a greater form of life. They have no god that they worship, they do not kill in any one being's name, they kill for themselves and eachother, their collective mind, their Unity.

I said tended, and explained exactly why.

How is it terrorism, exactly? Because people are sacrificing their lives to do it? Terrorism is about goals, not methods, the goal of Wail of the Sacrificed is clearly to cripple enemy military assets and give the Advent Fleets an advantage in battle, not to terrify or intimidate the enemy into submission, which is what terrorism is about by very definition.

Edit - Oh yeah, with regards to the Rebels in general, this is from the Diplomacy lore:

"Some members of the Advent started to wonder if their course of vengeance was the right one to follow"

Those are the ones who pushed for diplomatic relations, and by the sounds of it are the ones who splintered into the Advent Rebels.

I never noticed the homeworld part, it strikes me as a bad idea, homeworlds are often far from the frontlines, which means cost or no cost, it would often be better for you to just rebuild the ships at frontline factories, instead of having ships respawn at your homeworld taking up your fleet supply and being 8 jumps from the front.

It would be more worthwhile in my eyes if they just revived on the battlefield.

my understanding of the tech is that its not tied to immediate deaths. ie, i just lost a frigate, i will now roll to see if it returns to life... its more like returning armada or truce amongst rogues in that every so often, you get ships. trouble is, where to bring them? however, i dont see any reason why the tech cant be made to work the way alot of people seem to think it does, via the on death-chance-to-resurrect method. can anyone think of a reason why you might not want to do it that way?