How the devs could improve the multiplayer scene for Rebellion

One of the biggest problems with Sins is the lack of players online. For something which sold hundreds of thousands of copies (over 500,000 by Fall 2008) and which won IGN's "Best PC Game of the Year", there's something seriously wrong if one can usually only find 20-50 people online (and usually less than 10 on Vanilla + Entrenchment combined), even during the peak hours in the evening. I can think of a few contributing factors to this:

There've been numerous serious bugs and compatibility issues, especially in the past, from what I've heard. For instance: the Mesh error is very common for newbies just starting to attempt to play online, which is relatively easy to fix if you know what you're doing, but can prevent newbies from ever being able to play online in the first place - this may well have prevented thousands of prospective players from checking out the multiplayer scene. Another serious bug is minidumps, which were apparently extremely common in the past while playing a game, but still appear frequently enough to be very discouraging. Also, quite a few players may have been interested in multiplayer and clicked the big "Multiplayer" button on the main menu, only to find that it leads nowhere unless you already know what you're doing and have a LAN game set up. I think the labeling of the "Multiplayer" button was a serious design flaw. The learning curve for multiplayer is also a huge problem: the game may seem deceptively simple at first (complicated but not overwhelming) when in reality there are hundreds of things to learn to become a good player, none of which are covered in the horrible tutorials. Odds are, someone coming online for the first time will be completely annihilated by the regulars in at least the first 30 or so games they play, before they learn the initial ropes. For many newbies, this may be discouraging enough for them to simply quit competitive ICO permanently and go back to killing AIs in single-player or comp stomps. This is a self-perpetuating system: low player counts populated mostly by experts makes it extremely difficult for a newbie to willfully trudge through the 50+ hours necessary of playtime (while being killed) to become halfway decent. There are too many experts and not enough noobs or semi-skilled players online for genuine newbies to have fun playing the game against other humans... which results in low player counts because 95% of the newbies aren't going to stay.

If most of the above issues aren't fixed in Rebellion, I fear we'll be seeing very low player counts there as well, once it's released. Some of the errors are likely much more complicated to fix (minidumps), but the ridiculously common Mesh error at least should have been extremely simple for the developers to fix.

I hope that Ironclad fixes the bugs and then makes getting onto multiplayer in the first place much easier. For instance, perhaps occasionally have pop-ups on the main menu saying something like "Player X is looking for players for a 2v2 game online! Join now?" Or something like that. Attracting newbies to at least experiment with multiplayer, hopefully against other not-so-skilled players, would be one of the greatest ways to improve the multiplayer scene for Sins, in my opinion. One idea is to allow newbies to have handicaps, like 2x income or something like that, to be decided by the game host - advantages like the harder AIs have. This would give even the better players on ICO a challenge against newbies (depending on the advantages), and both players would have a chance of winning. Still, hopefully Rebellion will do well enough for enough newbies to come online so they can play each other, instead of being annihilated by the experts and then discouraged from ever logging on again.

Just a few thoughts I hope the devs will seriously consider. A healthy, active multiplayer community is one of the greatest keys to a game's success, I think.

(crossposted from Rebellion section)

29,599 views 21 replies
Reply #1 Top

For people who know how to use the forum and to find information, there remain only two real barriers to entry into multiplayer: the minidumps (which don't happen all that often, although they're very annoying) and the learning curve, which is the biggest problem.

I hope Ironclad comes up with much better tutorials for Rebellion - lacking that, it would still be a great improvement if they could at least direct interested players to the forum or to a detailed manual of some sort. The problem is that newer players often have no idea at all where to start if they want to get better (or if they want to fix serious problems they have with the game, like the Mesh issue). There's nothing to study, unless they find a good multiplayer strategy guide. I'm working on one at the moment, but I don't think there are any others out there; the ones you can find scattered around the internet are often grossly insufficient and aimed completely at single-player.

This ultimately comes down to the newbies' lack of information, and their (often) inability to know how to find more information, about either technical problems or game strategy.

Reply #2 Top

I play(ed) a game for years called BZFlag (free, online multiplayer and open source).  When I came into it, the developers were probably 50% of the entire registered player base.  There were no tips or strategy pages and the forums were nearly all technical questions or just banter. It was a mystery at first how the really good players could do all the things they did but after a bit I started catching on.  When I did, I set up a colorful and easy to navigate website that avoided technobabble and provided only "play tips"--nothing else.

At first I was deluged with players complaining that I was giving away all the good tricks but then they finally joined in and started mirroring my site with their own and contributing their own help.  It made a huge difference in "churn"--the number of new players who came in and then left because they didn't find it satisfying.

My suggestion here is for all players to make a decision to surrender the, "only I know how to be a Sins god" mantles and really create something that raises newer players towards their level without requiring them to be routinely beaten with no explanation of tactics or sacrifice of pride in verbal beat downs.

I played chess starting at age seven and played people ten years or more older than I--some low level tournament players.  I routinely lost but I was educated along the way.  Some players lowered their game for me but the really good ones beat me--but did so by explaining before each move what they were going to do to me with it.  No "Stomp! Stomp!--figure it out yourself noob chump!" stuff--but actually showing me what the tactics were as they occurred.

A really good player-run tactics/tutorial site would be a really nice asset and would invite people to "join the gang" rather than simply be pummeled by them.

I also am dying to play live after a year of mostly playing solo but can't ever get an unlocked game or one that isn't full with the only players on becasue my free time is very sporadic.  We need new blood ...er..I mean "students".


 

Reply #3 Top

It also just might mean people have decided overwhelmingly that this game for them is a single player experience.

I believe online players are looking for the win, but single players for the the fun. imho.  

Reply #4 Top

We've been unable to reproduce the "Mesh error" which makes it fairly difficult to fix.

Reply #5 Top

I play online for the fun, but I'm a weird case...

I dislike the lack of challenge that single player represents, and I agree with Sinperium rather wholeheartedly, and yet I find some problems.

Tutoring people requires consistent time and dedication from players, something of which many do not have. So a central strategy guide may be the most successful route. I am willing to contribute, but there are definitely many more experienced players of PvP who will contribute much more meaningfully...

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Yarlen, reply 4
We've been unable to reproduce the "Mesh error" which makes it fairly difficult to fix.

It happens quite often to newbies who haven't played multiplayer before. Perhaps it's related to having an older version before or something. Regardless, the error is still very technically straightforward to fix: there are only supposed to be certain files in the Mesh folder of the main game, in the Mesh folder in Entrenchment, and the mesh folder in Diplomacy. Due to some sort of bug during installation, often one or two extra Mesh files are put in the folders, making it impossible for new players to play online unless they figure out that they have to delete those files (and unless they can figure out which files they are).

It seems to be quite common, given the number of multiplayer newbies I encounter who seem to have it, and could be very easily fixed by using something as simple as a batch file. It would be as simple as "Mesh error? Run batch file to delete everything in Mesh folders except for the Mesh files that are supposed to be there."

Reply #7 Top

Quoting Sinperium, reply 2
When I did, I set up a colorful and easy to navigate website that avoided technobabble and provided only "play tips"--nothing else.

At first I was deluged with players complaining that I was giving away all the good tricks but then they finally joined in and started mirroring my site with their own and contributing their own help.  It made a huge difference in "churn"--the number of new players who came in and then left because they didn't find it satisfying.

My suggestion here is for all players to make a decision to surrender the, "only I know how to be a Sins god" mantles and really create something that raises newer players towards their level without requiring them to be routinely beaten with no explanation of tactics or sacrifice of pride in verbal beat downs.

A really good player-run tactics/tutorial site would be a really nice asset and would invite people to "join the gang" rather than simply be pummeled by them.

I'm actually trying to work on something somewhat similar to this, although since I don't think there would be a whole lot of interest in it by the great players I was planning on it being mostly a personal thing. I only know basic HTML and know absolutely nothing about databases that would be necessary for something more interactive - still, at least we have a relatively active Strategy subforum here.

Quoting Sinperium, reply 2
I also am dying to play live after a year of mostly playing solo but can't ever get an unlocked game or one that isn't full with the only players on becasue my free time is very sporadic.  We need new blood ...er..I mean "students".

Are you on Diplomacy? In the evenings there are frequently available spots for 5v5 and other games, and there are usually 40-70 people online.

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Reply #8 Top

Yep--I'm on Diplomacy but I work from home and work cross-country so my schedule is always in flux.  Sometimes I am on at noon and other times at 2am--it varies a lot.

A basic site is a good start and even if a "fancier" one appears later they have a cumulative effect.  Mine started with just simple html pages with psychedelic graphics but the content made it work.  Later people came along with really elaborate sites--like MyFist0's--and I slowly "retired".  The SOASE weebly would actually be a great place for a play tips only section.

Every one knocks siddy but if he were to post helpful tips and share what he knows I thinmk a lot of attitudes about him--and the community would change.  Wehn the "immortals" start sharing freely and invitingly, it makes everyone want to try out.

 

Reply #9 Top

It was sad many times but ill repeat.

If u want more players you have to make sins pre-game menue and option more player friendly ( aka idiots proof)

Siins needs auto dowload map when trying to join a game with map i dont have)

Same thing with the mods. Mods should be auto-download when you join the game with different mod and game should auto swich files, not order to do it manualy)

Sins need new chat options, especialy option to join chat while game is full or game is on ontehr mod/map.

Sins need better engine, or to be less concentrate on spamming and more on mass controll weepons. Current engine cant handle 5 or more lv 6 fleets especialy when 3 or 4 try to fight at one place. And upgrade PC wont help since sins cant use multi core. So solution are better engine ore less spamming.(gimmi back my kosturas or i wont give you any more tips:D)

 

Also if u cant fix mini dumps and crashes, implement option (World of tanks) that allowe player who dropped rejoin to game and take controll form his AI ( without saves quiting rehosting, )

 

Sins needs help and instructions in other languages (helped eve online to increse player base)

 

But what is most important

 SINS NEEDS A SERVER THAT ACTUALY WONT DIE WHEN 150 PEOPLE LOG IN AND IS POWERED BY ELECTRICITY NOT HAMSTERS

 

And few more

 

 

Reply #10 Top

...but we like hamsters

Reply #11 Top

they just need thinner hamsters :P

 

and I don't play online unless it is with a friend or 3.  That seems to be the big thing.  It is a fun lan party game, but not so much on a weekday...

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Sinperium, reply 2
When I did, I set up a colorful and easy to navigate website that avoided technobabble and provided only "play tips"--nothing else.

In order to do something like this, I would recommend trying to make the Strategies article on Sins of a Solar Empire Wiki into the centerpiece of such an effort, and make the wiki into something more, since before I even showed up their it was so dilapidated and useless. The last major thing that needs to be done on the wiki is to incorporate anything of importance from the old SoaSEWiki articles into the current articles and then delete them. Only then will the wiki be a benefit to the Sins community.

Reply #13 Top

The problem with a multipurpose wiki is there is always some section of it that is incomplete or off topic to a viewer.  I think play tips in self-contained area would work the best.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Zeta1127, reply 12
In order to do something like this, I would recommend trying to make the Strategies article on Sins of a Solar Empire Wiki into the centerpiece of such an effort, and make the wiki into something more, since before I even showed up their it was so dilapidated and useless. The last major thing that needs to be done on the wiki is to incorporate anything of importance from the old SoaSEWiki articles into the current articles and then delete them. Only then will the wiki be a benefit to the Sins community.

I did do a large overhaul of both the Strategies and the Tips and Tricks page a few days ago, I'm still going through some of the other articles and improving what I can when I have the time.

A wiki is very useful, but isn't going to be enough.

Reply #15 Top

i'm from argentina. (only spanish, poco english) traducción al español (spanish) ayudaria al multiplayer

Reply #16 Top

oficial traduccion (stardock traduccion)

and more clear interface, instrucciones multiplayer.

son solo ideas (only minds) sorry my poor english and errors, thanks.

Reply #17 Top

sory error: the interface is clear. 

Reply #18 Top

Ever heard of the edit button? :borg:

How to improve MP?

STOP SMURFS and GUYS LIKE SIDDY and QUAR.

Get a damn Chat Monitor, or SOMETHING!

Reply #19 Top

I hate sins but im the biggest sinner of them all.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting JA_394, reply 18
Ever heard of the edit button?

How to improve MP?

STOP SMURFS and GUYS LIKE SIDDY and QUAR.

Get a damn Chat Monitor, or SOMETHING!

 

Dont know if u heard but rebelion is going to have a feature that benefits everyone. It will show account game counter isnteed of character game counter.

 

But i have also bad news for you. Im unstopable

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Qu4r, reply 20
Dont know if u heard but rebelion is going to have a feature that benefits everyone. It will show account game counter instead of character game counter.

And also main account name? I think? Hopefully.