Is this for Entrenchment?  

Amarr Empire

-2, Hate:

Advent - Heathen Religion.

Borg - If only their implants didn't turn me into a slave (irony)

Cylon - They shot me first. . . THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

Dalek - See Cylon

Goa'uld - Heathen false gods.

Gallente - Love freedom too much and help Minmatar too much.

Minmatar - Get the frack out of space and back onto the plantation.

Rebel Alliance - They actively oppose slavery?

Shadows - Not too sure about talking to deceptive illusive creatures. Shoot. *dies*

Starfleet - See Rebel Alliance

Wraith - I am not another species' meal.

-1, Dislike:

Ancients - oppose slavery, but not actively out for me for it.

Argon - See Ancients

Asgard - See Ancients

Boron - See Ancients

Colonial - See Ancients

Hiigaran - Not too sure about a society with a female hero figure.

Klingon - Too naughty

Minbari - See Ancients

Paranoid - See Ancients

Romulan - Though we have been known to have the same practices, the romulans are moving away from them. Also, they are pretty xenophobic as slave holders, and Starfleet-light as they move away from Slavery.

System Alliance - See Ancients

Tau'ri - See Ancients

Vasari - We both like slaves, well *nears friendship butan* oh wait, no, you let your slaves run around and crap and have a life? *smashes enemy butan*.

0, Neutral:

Cardassian - former slave holders, moving away from it, but not entirely without dignity and a firm control over their people!

Centauri - We like their system of government, but we don't like them.... ehh, neutral.

Dominion - Somewhat like Vasari, but more powerful. *Amarr hypocritcally puts them on Neutral just because of big power*

Galactic Empire - We are similar in most ways, except their heathen religion.

8472 - Not too sure what to think upon initial contact. Not enough people in each spaceship to justify resources expended for capture and enslavement.

Narn - Nice government, stupid people.

Split - Again, nice government, but stupid people.

TEC - Not too sure what to thunk?

Teladi - Profit... like Caldari? But we hardly know them?

Vorlon - Psions???

Xenon - who?

1, Like:

Caldari - Big business buddy!

2, Ally

Us - Because only we know turth!

 Will update this post as I go back through making changes

Advent Relationships

purdyaw

Amarr Empire Relationships

purdyaw

Ancients Relationships

noing

Please quickly distinguish between Khaak and 8472. The Khaak I read about from X3 and whatever game it's from is very different from the Star Trek 8472. Star Trek 8472 are very good willed, but aggressive and reactive.

I was not going to even add 8472 to the race list. Not enough ships or info but I thought it might make an interesting combo.

If not they are probably out unless you (or anyone) can figure out how to make an entire m0d add-on for 8472

I though about the defensive reactive and I am the same. In a small nice town I am good willed and friendly but put me in the Bronx and I turn into a reactive prick that will shoot the 1st thing that pops its head out.

The Ancients:

-2, Hates:

Borg: Obvious

Cylons: They shot us before we could even say hi.

Dalek: See Cylons

Galactic Empire: Obvious.

Wraith: Old arch enemy.

-1, Dislikes:

Amarr: Slave holders

Caldari: Does business with slave holders.

Goa'uld: Slave holders and false gods. Brought chaos to homeland while far away threats built up. Proved hindrance to defense of said threats.

0, Neutral:

Advent: They have their plight, strong ships, and are out for revenge. We can see why, but don't condone this.

Argon: Not particularly good or evil in the eyes of the Ancients.

Boron: See Argon

Cardassian: See Argon

Centauri: They seem good, but not particularly more goodwilled than your average human empire. Come off similar as Argon.

Colonial: See Argon

Dominion: Past is bad, presently looking okay, future looks bright.

Earth Alliance: See Argon

Hiigaran: See Argon. Though the feats of the Hiigaran may set them a part from the other neutrals on the list, bring interest first to move up in standing.

8472: Intriguing and seemingly good, but need to control their reactionary behavior.

Klingon: *inches slowly toward the neutral button*

Minbari: See Argon

Minmatar: See Argon

Narn: See Argon

Paranoid: See Argon

Romulan: See Argon

Shadows: See Argon

Split: See Argon

System Alliance: See Argon

TEC: See Argon

Teladi: See Argon

Vasari: Seem bad, but not really evil. They have a free society anyways.

Vaygr: See Argon

Vorlon: See Argon

Xenon: See Argon

1, Likes:

I'm sorry, we only seem to love people.

2, Ally:

Asgard: Old brosefs, bro

Rebel Alliance: Adamantly for the good cause. They'd jump right in with us, amirite guise?

Starfleet: See Rebel Alliance

Tau'ri: our children brosefs.

My list can teach that other list some things. I'm not too sure I'd put TEC as super brosefs with the Ancients. It seems unlikely. The TEC are known to dislike certain kinds of people, if you know what I mean.

If I were to modify this, I'd put Cylon down to -2, Advent up to 0, Dominion to neutral, Galactic Empire down to -2, Rebel Alliance to +2 (I see the Ancients taking a definite stand between the two), Shadows to -1 or 0, TEC to neutral 0, Vasari to Neutral 0, and Vaygr to neutral.

 purdyaw for the work and thought you're putting into this. I will add you to the Diplomate list soon.

If you want to write some lore to go on the pages feel free and I will add you to the m0d team and give you account access.

Dont forget I added the 3 races from Freespace. GTA, Shivan and Vasudan

EDIT: I will see if I can get a few of my buds from the Stargate mod team to weigh in on this.

You can figure those 3 out. I've never played freespace. Sorry.

My only major problem with the Star Gate lists (and I know Star Gate very well), is that the three vanilla races (TEC, Advent, and Vasari) are not at all known for being particularly good or evil between eachother. They are all neutral on morality. The Advent are the most likely to pick up any sympathy from any of the outside perceived 'good' races, as they have the story of being oppressed. With that said, the Tau'ri and Ancients are mostly seen as forces of good, hero races, in star gate. They are unlikely to go inline with a society that acts the way the TEC do.

I see the TEC most like the Caldari State. I see them as +2 between eachother, when I get to them. Consequently becoming -2 with gallente and Minmatar, and so on.

Rofl- good laugh 1st thing in the mornin' 

GTA=TEC
Shivan=Advent
Vasudan=Vasari

for now then 

http://sins-of-the-creator.weebly.com/gta.html page rough-in

As a longtime FreeSpace fan, I'm going to have to say the Shivans are -2 with everyone, and everyone is -2 with them.  The Shivans love to emerge out of subspace and start attacking people for no discernable reason, and communication with them may not even be possible.

what are u talking about the dominion not being evil, they changed the dna of the 2 dominion races we saw to fit THEIR needs of gaining galactic control, in essence slaves

for the tauri yeah ur right among the grand scheme of things the ancients would be allies but hard to work with bc of their holier than thou look on things

everyone knew what the shadows were doing.... they told everyone themselves, they make the younger races stronger by introducing a war so that the younger races get new better technology faster

Speaking of the Dominion, if you're a former and up to the end of DS9/beginning of Enterprise rabid trekkie fan, we can certainly argue this further. If you don't claim such rabid trekkie-ness, you might want to yield here, because I am, and was, during DS9.

Yes, the Dominion were doing some pretty evil things. If you don't take in every possible detail given out by the dominion from the writers, actors, and minor effects, you will say "Hey, wouldn't they be kind of evil?" But the writers in later films and at the end of DS9 show exactly how the Dominion came to do what they did.

You discover that the acts of Dominion forces in the alpha quadrant are directed by one female changeling alone. She is thrust out of power. Changelings are not inherently evil, and this one was just an arrogant woman bent on domination. At latest point in TNG/Voyager/DS9 universe Star Trek timeline (That is, one of the two main star trek live action canons, the other being the reboot by the latest film), the Dominion are a reforming power in contact and in cohesion with Starfleet. They are active in efforts to repulse Borg threats following the conclusion of Voyager's failed attempt to dismantle them.

This fact is by hints you get from the movies of this era in this star trek universe which came before the reboot Star Trek movie. You learn the Dominion are now at least not an evil regime for a single changeling lady.

---

Other than the above argument, do you agree with me at least on TEC/Advent/Vasari needing to go neutral with Tau'ri and Ancients? Maybe Vasari could go -1 for continuing disdainful actions. 

just to be fair im not a true "trekki"

but u are right about the alpha dominion being controlled by an arrogant woman

yes to the tec/advent being neutral with tauri and ancients

vasari should prob be -1 for the current lore that was put out recently

and we should really get together somewhere on the web so we can get all the diplomatic stuff sorted out

2 heads are better than one yes?

Did we come to a consensus?   

Don't make me sik wikileaks on yur ass. The diplomatic cables will become public. 

We came to consensus if noing concedes to my trekkieness about Dominion. This puts the changes for Ancients as:

dominion Neutral, and largely neutral to most everybody as not much is known about how they will operate outside of that whore's control. They'll likely be the most neutral empire in this mess, maybe a little +1 here and there with some races really looking to get rid of the Borg; because they simply are powerful enough to drain borg resources by themselves, whereas Starfleet all together can barely take down a cube after they've adapted to future Voyager tec.

Vasari -1, Advent 0, TEC 0,

duh

@purdyaw i concede to ur trekkieness

Caldari State

-2, hate:

Borg: They put nanotubes Where?

Cylon: They  sunk my battleship!

Dalek: Dalek

Gallente: They keep stealing our home planet

Minmatar: Super secret slave trade buddy not too keen on you!

Shadows: ???

Vasari: New best buddy not so happy about your conquest

Wraith: See Cylon

-1, dislike:

Advent: too eccentric

Ancients: They don't seem to approve of our business practices.

Asgard: See Ancients

Goa'uld: Not too sure about creepy mind control slugs.

Rebel Alliance: See Ancients

Starfleet: See Ancients

Tau'ri: See Ancients

0, neutral:

Argon: Seems like a business partner, but only to take advantage of.

Cardassian: See Argon

Centauri: See Argon

Colonial: See Argon

Dominion: See Argon

Earth Alliance: See Argon

Hiigaran: See Argon

8472: The Caldari state, and most notably, the Achur, possess proper restraint upon first contact at the very least to start off Neutral.

Klingon: See Argon

Narn: See Argon

Paranoid: See Argon

Romulan: See Argon

Split Dynasty: See Argon

System Alliance: See Argon

Teladi: See Argon

Vaygr: See Argon

Vorlon: See Argon

Xenon: See Argon

+1, like

Amarr Empire: Good business and provides slaves secretly so the Caldari don't get accused of slaveholding by Minmatar and Gallente.

Galactic Empire: They organize profits for us very well through strict. . . control of their people. Very very good!

+2, ally:

Sivtherium Corp: Pretty much the same as us. We'll blossom together as we are always on the same page.

TEC: See Sivtherium Corp

It is my opinion that the Borg should have a special form of relationship, love. The Borg love to bring you into their collective. They don't really hate, like Dalek. None the less, their love is going to be a standing of -3.

As far as 8472 goes, there is plenty of Apocraphy in Star Trek Armada II. Much of it is a straight reflection of Canon. I've just pretty much never seen their Bomber, Behemoth and Cruiser from the Show. I'll link.

Logo from Armada II: http://images.wikia.com/startrek/images/f/fe/Logo-species8472t.jpg

8472 Battleship from Voyager series: http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200303/voy-169-a-species------bio-shi/320x240.jpg

8472 Battleship from Armada II: http://www.strategyplanet.com/starmada/images/pages/features/species.jpg

The Voyager series photo shows this destroyer. Here it is in Armada II: http://gaming.trekcore.com/armada2/shipsandstations/8472destroyer.jpg

This is the scout from Armada II, and it resembles the actual first 8472 ship Voyager first contacted: http://gaming.trekcore.com/armada2/shipsandstations/8472scout.jpg

Cruiser from Armada II: http://gaming.trekcore.com/armada2/shipsandstations/8472cruiser.jpg

Bomber from Armada II: http://gaming.trekcore.com/armada2/shipsandstations/8472launcher.jpg

Behemoth from Armada II: http://images.wikia.com/startrek/images/7/79/8472_behemoth.jpg

Mothership from Armada II: http://images.wikia.com/startrek/images/5/5d/8472_mothership.jpg

Battle Frigate from Armada II: http://images.wikia.com/startrek/images/d/d3/8472frigate.jpg

Armada II also has a variety of biotic structures. They jiggle while they stand, and while they're being made.

Crap  . You would have to find that stuff so I have to add another race.

Going to have to teach you how to m0d so you can help. 

I am already a very well versed advanced modder for Sins of a Solar Empire. I had all the assets available once for making an EVE Online mod for Soase.

I quit when I realized I was going to join the Navy, which I currently work for in Japan.

If there is any advise I would give you, it is probably the advise any game designer from any game with a variety of classes, or races, etc, would tell you. Don't pay too much attention to minute detail when it comes to balance. Try not to micromanage that; it will only wear you out. 

Instead, pay a greater deal of attention to the overall picture. You can easily make up for an imbalance between races in the overall picture then by calculating it down to the most even balanced values.

Give each class of ship and module, between each race, what you will, for flashy design purposes. Vary their damage in scale with one another based on how you feel it should be relative to eachother (ie: the advant has the higher damage long range frigate, but the TEC has the longest range frigate). Those are the variations you should pay attention to.

First make the mod, and if you, by some stupid chance, have enough people playing it for anyone to recognize significant imbalances, then correct that at that time. People more appreciate a working product that doesn't bug out. If there is a flavor of the month, it doesn't push people away, it just makes them play flavor of the month. You can simply fix that later.

--- Also

Try not to get too caught up in the whole "why is starfleet even capable of killing on Galactic Empire ship" type of debate. This is a game where races are balanced; make it such. We all know a single Star Destroyer could go on a campaign to wipe out the Federation, but that isn't what happens when you put them in a game together.

Well said. That was the plan. 

Get all the assets in and worry about that crap later.

I did want all the player entities done to a point with all the relationships at the bottom included and the selectable priority in alphabetical order. Model entities all point to a blank mesh collection which is a copy of 1 of the existing races weapons and abilities. So as soon as I add a Hiigaran capital ship it is a copy of the TEC capital until I change the values. That lets me quickly test models and keep balance until specifics are worked out. 

Models and sounds are priority one now. And the base mod which needs some basic info of all the races that will be in eventually. Once the base mod is done and the Hiigaran add-on I will upload then work on other races to add.

I will see if I can update the web pages tomorrow with the relations info. Thanks.

8472

-2, Hate:

Borg: Arch enemy in Star Trek.

Cylon: See Dalek

Dalek: Dalek

Galactic Empire: They're going to shoot us, and we're going to become angry.

Vasari: See Galactic Empire

Wraith: See Galactic Empire

-1, Dislike: This is a hard category to get in. Most people go straight to hate.

Amarr: do not like slaveholders.

Caldari: do not like insane businessmen

Goa'uld: They bad

Sivtherium Corp: do not like insane businessmen

TEC: do not like insane businessmen

0, Neutral: People who are not likely to shoot 8472, but 8472 aren't going to flock to you!

Argon, Boron, Centauri, Colonial, EarthAlliance, Gallente, Hiigaran, Minbari, Minmatar, Narn, Paranoid, Shadows, Split, System Alliance, Teladi, Vaygr, Xeno

1, Likes: There are either distant friends against The Borg or likely suspects to approach us carefully enough to become friends.

Distant friends versus Borg: Cardassian, Dominion, Klingon, Romulan.

Likely careful approach: Ancients, Asgard, Rebel Alliance, Tau'ri, 

2, Ally:

Advent: Prefer passive behavior (harmony), but quick to hostility if shot. They are psionic just like us.

Starfleet: This alliance is forged in Trek canon already.

Vorlon: Psions. Peaceful contact and alliance forging is imminent.

anyone missed is probably Neutral.