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does anyone have any good tips on how to get the best econ at the start of a map for teh advent
If you want to do something silly with Advent in the singleplayer game, find a desert planet with 4 extractors: then do all that allegiance upgrade stuff, make it your homeworld, and build nine tradeports converted to resource focus. With 150% allegiance and resource focus set 9 times over you'll actually notice a big gain to resources. I'll note the silly part again in case anyone forgets about that part while reading those two sentences.
In one of my last games, I was allied with a Vasari player and played on a map with very rare ice planets.
Later in the game all had to buy Crystal and the market boomed permanently.
Since I got an ice planet with 4 extractors, the Vasari sent an envoy and so increased extraction rate.
Then I built only trade ports, putting all but 1 of them into resource focus - the last one was for trade route length.
After raising allegience to 100% (or higher?) and starting the envoy's ability (multiplying stacking with resource focus), I've got an extremely high income: 11+ crystal / sec , on one planet, speed was set to fastest.
I think, this exchange instead for extra 20 cr/s was definitely worth it, since otherwise i had to pay ~600 cr for 100 crystal.
sry for my bad english
You can't use the MotherShips cost reduction ability in multiplayer because your best course of action to survive is build the halcyon(s) with bombers to survive a rush attack or any other attack for that matter. From there on build scouts and desciples to supplement your fleet cos there cheap units. U will win battles through strength in numbers. Remember scouts have 200% accuracy/dmg advantage against lrf but 25% against others. So supplement with disciple but lots of scouts is nice.(turn on the auto attack for scouts). Later include defence vessels in the fleet. Make use of guardians against tec players mostly. Mid game have 3 harmony temples and 4 hostility temples. Build at-least 1 culture temple on each system, Trade-ports everywhere then build star-bases and use the increase trade income ability.
Depends on the map layout. On close proximity maps, this is very true. But on maps that place players at a greater distance, there is enough time for the Progenitor to pay for itself. Since its shield regeneration is an excellent boon to any fleet, it's not like you're picking something that is devoid of combat value.
True-We are talking medium or larger maps that require races to research system jumps. It will be (early on) Mother-ship ( 2 bombers) + Halcyon (4 bombers) + Scouts + desciples and the ability to shield Regen all . . Offensively think will have to purchase a level to get to use malice ability or opt for it over shield for a more offensive fleet until i get more combat experience. it will supplement the missing bombers on the halcyon foregone. Question is 1st level malice > 2 bomber squadrons? Don't think so. Wish 1st lvl malice lasted longer in terms of duration over the others. Should be able to reach 1 mother ship, 2 halcyon after colonizing 1 system. Fair enough. Let me go try this now at 4x speed since im bored.
Not necessarily; I'd say anything that puts you and your opponent at about a 7-jump distance (random small will do this) is sufficient. Part of the advantage of the colony capital ship is tactical; you can expand faster to reach and fortify key worlds sooner. Although the carrier cap will hit harder, it's already a step behind by the time the fight starts.
Depends on how much firepower you're throwing out. Malice scales nicely as firepower increases, so it will underperform for smaller fleets and overperform for larger fleets. In any case, if you're doing a direct comparison on primarily combat value, then the Halcyon is your capital ship of choice. The Progenitor's selling point is for rapid colonization and economic buildup, and it's otherwise a more mid-late game bloomer compared to the all-rounder Halcyon.
Generally speaking, I find malice is only worthwhile to take over shield regeneration in the vs Vasari matchup. In that case, your shields are getting bypassed so the extra offensive potential is far more valuable. Otherwise, I find the defensive edge of shield regeneration is just too much to pass up.
Culture as an eco boost early game benefits too small? Someone do the numbers
Oh, it works fine. It's slightly better than a trade port if you put it on your homeworld, but unlike trade ports it doesn't stack (for economic benefit, anyways) so you can only get so much out of it.
More specifically, train chains. Each planet you extend your trade network by increases the income of all your trade ports. If you can extend your chain early, this will give you loads of cash with which to build even more trade ports, and by 35 minutes on faster game speed I'd say as high as 100 credits per second should be doable.
I've seen good players in eco position get as much as 160 credits per second in 35 minutes.
My best was 199 at 30 min (in a real competitive game) but that would be almost impossible to top.
I had you in mind.....
Exactly all im hearing is insane numbers and they don't say the details. My mind is screaming possible "cheaters" .
60 in 30 min ---> chain, how many planets, how many trade ports and other logistic structures?
Same with the 190 plz..
As each game and map varies It is impossible to have only one game as tutorial but it is possible to see basics behind good eco expansion.
When we are talking about 100+ in credits it means that player is in eco position. ECO position means that his main role in the game is to develop economy and give (feed) players on his team with resources. ECO role means that until he comes across the map and clashes with other team ECO guy he doesn't upgrade his fleet supply and he expands with 1 capital ship and either scouts or light frigates to kill siege and LRM militia frigates. Most of the time he doesn't bother to clean planet of militia completely but instead builds 1-3 turrets and let them kill rest of them. If he expands in 2 different ways he builds another colony cruiser.
It also means that he builds only civic labs and research only economy related technology (e.g. trade ports, resource extraction bonuses, increased cargo holds, development mandate, upgrades to planet population. It means that his planets logistic slots are filled with trade ports. More on planet better it is. After buying his 2 population upgrades to get out of red numbers he will monitor population on planets and buy additional upgrades only when his population is about to max out. This strategy releases resources that would otherwise be locked in planet and not used.
Some technologies are not worth researching because return of investment is too long. Those are resource focus for advent, and vulcan or ice population increase. ROI in refineries to actually build them is about 15-20 min each given that it taps into 9-12 resource extractors (all you numbers guys - those are very rough estimates) so in most cases they are not worth building. Usually you want to have 4 phase lanes from the planet with mineral extractors on the other side to build them.
While thinking about credit income you need to think of your path of expansion in order to build your longest trade chain. This sometimes means leave some planets uncolonized or if you do colonize them leave them without trade ports. Use them as planets on which your labs and culture centers are build. Sometimes it is worth to build SB with trade port upgrade to bridge gravity well with no trade ports.
On faster game settings basic value of income for trade port is 1.7 cred per second.
Each trade port income = basic value + n*0.1 in which n is number of legs in your trade chain.
That means if you get trade chain with 6 legs each trade port no mater where its build gives you 2.3 credits per second. income = 1.7 + (6*0.1)
For instance desert planet with 9 trade ports gives you 20.7 credits per second with 6 legs trade chain compared to 15.3 without any chain whatsoever.
In 30 minutes most skilled players (given that map doesn't handicap them) are able to set up a chain of 8-10 planets. In the same time they are able to fill them with trade ports.
The trick is not to lock your resources into something that gives you no benefits.
If you are TEC this gets even easier.
Starting at Civ Lab 4, TEC can upgrade trade income by 15 % which can really increase your creds/sec, especially if you've got an 8-10 planet chain. If you have 8 planets with an average of 3 trade ports each with the Cargo hold upgrades you are looking at: (8( 3*(1.7+(8*.1))))*1.15= 69 creds/sec of trade income.
At Civ Lab 6, you can get trade bonus up to 30%, which would mean, 78 creds/sec of trade income.
This is a very conservative # as someone in Eco position usually will average more like 4-6 per grav-well once logistics are maxed and these estimates ignore any planetary trade bonus' which are actually fairly common especially if you are playing some of the more popular mods.
What these calculations do prove is that with Tax income, its very reasonable to achieve income levels of 125-175 creds/sec. And that doesn't even include the awe inspiring pervasive economy upgrade if you are playing a super long game.
Actually pervasive economy can be researched 20 - 25 min in the game.... Hardly late game.
True I suppose, completely relative to game speed of course but I find most people acting as the Eco booster on their team as TEC go for the early advantage of massed trade ports rather than using those slots on civ labs. Granted I play with a select group on private online games only but I find most people don't go past Civ Lab 6 unless the game goes past an hour or so. You have to really want Pervasive to grab those last 2 labs as there isn't much other reason to go for them and you kind of have to know that you will have the time to get your money out of it. Just my opinion.
On faster game settings basic value of income for trade port is 1.7 cred per second.
Each trade port income = basic value + n*0.1 in which n is number of legs in your trade chain.
That means if you get trade chain with 6 legs each trade port no mater where its build gives you 2.3 credits per second. income = 1.7 + (6*0.1)
This isn't quite right. On faster, the formula for trade port income is 1.7 * (1 + n * 0.1), so a 6-jump chain is actually 2.7 per port. Anyways, the bottom line is that chains make a big difference.
Remember that this tech actually costs more than building a new trade port. As a result, you're often better off just building additional ports. As a rule of thumb, I get the first level once I have about 20 trade ports. For the second level it's about 35 trade ports, although you might go for it earlier if you have your heart set on Pervasive Economy.
If you're on the front-lines and actively fighting, this is very true. If you're playing pure economy, you'll reach this level relatively easily and quickly. TEC still has it better than Advent; their civic tree is utter crap after the 3rd level, so they have to sink five labs just for Allure of the Unity. An Advent in the eco spot really needs to find some way to be militaristically relevant, since they're just not cut out for economizing.
LOL i beat an unfair ai vasari with an economy made up of culture temples boosting resource and tax revenue , crusaders,guardians,illums 1 capital ship (Mother Ship).
single player is a joke
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