Well, Toby, I could boycott your post due to you avatar, it reminds me of how my girlfriend dresses her dog up all the time and then I have to pretend to feel something other than disgust and sympathy for a tiny, tortured creature. 

You sound like you're talking to a little family run barber shop or something. Do you really think lead designers just make whatever they feel like? These big companies often rely on investors and external financiers to fund their games, and they don't spend countless millions of dollars without dictating exactly how they want it to go. This will be agreed with by the CEO of the game development company, contracts drawn up, and then the lowly designer will be told by his/her boss what to make and how to make it.

Some aspects of the internet are pretty stupid. It gives people like you a voice, which is ridiculous really. And the result is that you use that voice to make nasty criticisms of some guy who you know absolutely nothing, and on a subject you don't know anything about either.

Now excuse me, I have to go down to my local supermarket and throw rotten tomatoes at the checkout girl for ruining local business.

The sad truth is, regardless of who Stardock had hired, there'd still be this level of "outrage" on the forums.  For every person, game or company in the industry, there's a group of people out there who apparently have nothing better to do than make their disgust known as loudly and as frequently as possible.  There was some disgust voiced here when Kael was hired too.

Hell hath no fury like a nerd behind an anonymous forum account.

Well, in this case you are missing out on one of the best platformers in long time.  The Game Reviewer score was dead on IMHO.

I have to disagree there.  This isn't the only new hire Stardock announced, and Jon is the only one.

Nothing personal against Jon.  It's just you see the words "Lead Designer - Civ V" and "I hate Civ V", and put two and two together....   It's just a fact of life in the professional world:  you can't afford to have your name attached to crap, and it doesn't matter whether it's your fault or not.  Plus if you're lead, it really doesn't matter whether it's your fault or not.  It's your fault.

hey, she liked it!  someone's gotta rock the pink stardock hoodie

She just wants you to think that. Gotta love the loyalty of dogs.  The poor animal is dying inside!

Eh, my girl even paints the poor dogs toenails. 

That bitch got to go!

I love her!  She's just a goofball.  Plus, I mean come on, as a fat geek, it's just nice to have a girlfriend...especially with my personality.

Hahah, I was just kidding around. Don't take too much of what I say seriously.

cross posting because I think everyone should read this.

RPS: OK. So we’re nearly there! How did that end up becoming lead designer?

JS: Well the thing about design at Firaxis is that it’s fairly unique compared to design at other companies. Most companies have a lot of specialised designers, so for an RPG you’d have quest designers and narrative designers, and area designers and maybe a lead designer that organises them all. The way it works at Firaxis is that there is a designer, and he is also the gameplay programmer who programs all the gameplay rules, and he also programs all the AI.

RPS: Even for the more recent Civilizations? There’s one guy doing the core of the programming?

JS: Yeah. The thing is, that’s always how Sid Meier’s done it. Firaxis is his company, and that’s just the model that we use. The games have been successful, and it’s the only way that we know.

RPS: So one of the bigger reasons why you were made lead designer is because you know both sides. Programming and design.

JS: Yes. Which is becoming more common, but to be proficient enough in programming to handle all the gameplay rules, you have to be fairly experienced. We had other designers at Firaxis who were senior to me, but they weren’t programmers or they hadn’t played Civ. It’s such a specialised role. Our teams are getting bigger now, so on Civilization V I didn’t program all the AI. Only about half. We had a combat programmer doing combat AI, and a programmer doing the AI for the workers and explorers, but I programmed all the game rules and the diplomatic and economic AI.

Honestly, I think this is a big reason why a lot of games aren’t as good. The vision-holder isn’t working directly on the game, he’s just saying “Hey! Please do this and make it work like this.” And it works sometimes, and sometimes it doesn’t.

Doesn't make crossposting right.  It's just as annoying even if you think people should know what is in the post.

OK so a mod should edit it out or just ban me it's not like i'm going to buy this game now that Jon "contarder of games" shafer has been brought on board.  The CEO comes on and posts about how Civ5 isn't Shafer's fault, but if you read Shafer's own words, he is the man to blame for civ5.  He admits Firaxis seems to have used a dev model straight out of 1986 because that's the only way Sid knew, etc.

The problem with civ5 isn't just bad AI, though that's part of it.  So are the missing multiplayer features and bugs, but that's expected.  

The real problems are fundamental gameplay decisions that Shafer made.  I won't touch anything his name is attached to, ever, again.  We can cry about how the forum dwellers don't know what they are talking about and we don't know the real story blah blah blah... but it won't matter.  Ultimately, we are the consumers who vote with our wallets and I for one vote a hearty and fulfilling NO THANK YOU.

Okay, this is kinda confusing to me... Civ 5 has been out for awhile now right?  Thing is, I've only heard good things about it.  Where is all this Civ 5 hate coming from?  I actually haven't played the game myself so I have no way to judge, but is it just a few people that loved Civ 4, so no matter how Civ 5 played it was going to be bashed by these people? Or was it one of those.. 2 months later people suddenly realized they actually DON'T like it?

It doesn't make sense to me, because pretty much everyone I know that played it has liked it, and most reviews have been favorable towards it.  Suddenly Jon Shafer is "the guy that ruined everything"?  Did I miss something?

don't listen to him, there are some very vocal civ fans who aren't satisfied with the game and have dumped the entire blame for their frustration upon jon.  never mind that he was co-lead on bts, which is generally regarded in the civ community as the best game ever.  never mind that the 135 patch was a huge leap forward, much like elemental's first patch.  jon was lead on ciV so anything that went wrong was clearly HIS fault.  certainly, any perceived shortfalls in civ5 had nothing to do with a creative director (sid) who just pulled civrev out of his hat, is working on civ for facebook, and generally thinks that civ 4 was way too complicated.

Elemental will be better for jon's involvement, and the mysterious new game that he's working will definitely get my $$ as well.

Brad, congrats on making a decision, which I for one am excited for the potential improvements to this game. And not just this game, as I think he will be a huge asset for future projects. Of course I may be wrong, as after all I am just posting my opinion. As are the naysayers posting on this subject. But right or wrong it is your decision, and you made it. I have been a customer of yours since the first GalCiv, and will continue to be.

I do have a bone to pick with dragoaskani though.

Some of us no longer enjoy the freedom to do what we once did. I for one am one such that due to medical issues, now find myself living an extremely different life than I used to. I used to make a very decent income, have experienced things in life that some of you might give body parts up to experience for yourself, and now find myself limited to a disability income that merely lets me survive, and with no real ability anymore of changing that. So yes, for some of us folks, fifty bucks IS a lot of money.

Anyway, I for one am excited about this hire, as I see only better things to come because of it.

Most video game reviews these days are shit, anyone whose ever played Empire total war can attest to that

But here's a real one on civ5:

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3181540

I haven't played elemental yet, but I hear that 1.1 has improved it quite a bit.  have you tried 1.1 yet or are you just ranting b/c they didn't listen to you during beta testing?

grow up

I think when historians of the future look back at this time, they will come to the conclusion that no one else in history is as self-important, or as indignant, as PC gamers with no life.

First off, that's a damned cute avatar.

Secondly big companies who have outside funding (contracts etc) are heavily influenced by those contracts. I did work for a large company and was ordered to violate about 7-8 copyrights/patents without the consent of the holders of said patents. I of course refused the order but my point is Big companies are often very ugly.

Stardock is still privately owned (the way companies should be IMHO). At the end of the day, if John Shaffer (still not quite sure who this guy is with relation to CiV) turns out to be doing a bad job, he would be let go just as with any other employee. Stardock is not restrained as the civilization franchise was when it came to publishers.

With all this said, Welcome aboard mr. Shaffer (sorry if i misspelled your name). If Frogboy vouches for you, thats good enough for me.

This is all pretty entertaining to read. I'm a long-time buyer of Stardock and other strategy games, and am thinking about buying Elemental so just checking the forum. Held off until the patch was in place. Played all the Civs up to IV, but haven't played 5 yet. Just gotten a little bored with the series I think - nothing against Civ5 specifically.

Quite amazing the stuff spewing out of some people. I've been a developer and now a product manager for business software for 20 years, and compromises always get made. Any developer or development team has to balance all (and more) of these factors - adding more features, stability, balance, AI, robustness, extensibility, scope creep, performance,  time to market, sales demands, pet peeves/wishlists from senior management or other departments. To my mind, its somewhat of a miracle that software gets delivered to the customer at all without blowing up during the process.

Without knowing the background, it sounds like Elemental was delivered without adequate testing/stability/balance. So that's not good. But big kudos to Brad and the Stardock team to honestly admitting that and delivering what sounds like a solid patch. Not many game dev houses would do that, and I've also been impressed by Stardock's accessibility to their voracious Internet audience.

Also sounds like Civ5 isn't to the liking of some players. And that's to be expected - no game appeals to everyone. But frankly, it sounds like a solid game that is popular and well-liked by many gamers. Hardly a effing disaster. So bringing the lead designer of it to Stardock should only improve the quality and great ideas in Stardock games. Sounds like a win all around.

Domicron,

You're just linking me to the 1 mostly negative review I've found myself. That doesn't mean it's "right" but that it just conforms to your opinion of Civ 5, so I'm not quite sold on the hate yet.

It isn't just in reviews that I've heard good things about it either, but actual players that have enjoyed the game. I'm not one of those guys that just trolls Metacritic and buys any game that is 90 and up, I generally like to get a variety of opinions before purchasing a game. Some of my favorite games, or most memorable moments have been from poorly received games that I'm later shocked to find out were poorly received!  I kinda feel like this is what's happening but reversed.  A couple of guys didn't like Civ 5 that much, and are on a quest to disparage the game and the name of Jon Shafer after finding out quite a lot of people enjoyed the game.  Generally if someone has to throw out foreboding prophecy about how "so many gamers" are going to abandon something, it's usually their way of trying to justify their opinion, and isn't based on fact. My guess is that Elemental sales will continue to increase, and the 3 guys that didn't like Civ 5 are going to make a statement and not buy it. That's usually how these things pan out.