riadsala

Kael and Fall From Heaven

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Kael and Fall From Heaven

from Elemental Forums

Hello,

 

apparently the stand alone Fall from Heaven game has been cancelled. :(

 

But on the plus side, maybe this would be a perfect opportunity for Stardock to entice Kael over to modding for Elemental... his work his admired by a lot of people, and I'm sure he'd have a lot of invaluable insight into expanding and improving elemental. Stardock just need to give him a reason to switch from modding the hugely popular CiV (he's already produced a couple of small Civ5 mods!) to working on the far less popular Elemental.

 

Thoughts?

 

And no, I'm in no way connected to him. I just really like his work in with Civ4-FfH2, and think that he'd likely help transform Elemental into the game a lot of us  originally wanted.

elemental
676,108 views 196 replies
Reply #51 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GaelicVigil, reply 22
Dear Kael: please stay away from Elemental.  We don't want your crappy game design over here.  FFH2 was vastly overrated and felt like an amateur project in every respect.

As opposed to the Frankensteinian mess of Elemental?

Sheesh.

UPDATE:  After seeing your apology, I'll tone that "sheesh" down a bit :)

Don't get me wrong...  FFH has all sorts of buggy behavior, but the reality is that it fundamentally changes Civ4 into at least a passable fantasy TBS game.  Something that Elemental is still striving towards.  Not bad for a mod.

Reply #52 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting MrManNo1, reply 50
Wildmana significantly improves the AI of the original FFH2. In fact, I believe Kael used some of Sephi's AI work for some of the later patches for it. The AI can actually be a challenge in it. But still, with all the modding, Civ IV's AI wasn't really meant to handle some of the stuff FFH2 throws at it. There's only so much modding can do.

 

To be fair, the Civ 4 AI can't really play Civ 4 either.  ^_^

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Reply #53 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting arstal, reply 52



Quoting MrManNo1,
reply 50
Wildmana significantly improves the AI of the original FFH2. In fact, I believe Kael used some of Sephi's AI work for some of the later patches for it. The AI can actually be a challenge in it. But still, with all the modding, Civ IV's AI wasn't really meant to handle some of the stuff FFH2 throws at it. There's only so much modding can do.


 

To be fair, the Civ 4 AI can't really play Civ 4 either. 

Heh...true. However as I heard, the Civ5 AI is much worse..:O

Reply #55 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gravedancer, reply 47
If only J.R.R. Tolkien had accepted Kael's help... 

 

 

This gave me a chuckle for two reasons. The reason you intended and the unintended comparison of Wardell to Tolkien lol.

Reply #56 from Elemental Forums Top

I bet 10$ that GaelicVigil is just trolling! :)

If Kael was such a great modder, why couldn't he fix the stack of doom problem?

Well elemental didn't too. And Kael modded a game so his actions was limited. Unlike SD who had opportunity to design that and implement it.

Reply #57 from Stardock Forums Top

Much can be said about Ffh2. Most notably, yes, a lot of assets were 'borrowed' (At least I expanded my music selection to some new bands I don't regret at all). On the other hand it was a hugely ambitious project - creating 15? entirely different factions with their own unique units and game mechanics, new terrain, portals hellforming the terrain, adding a magic system, etc.

Massive Kudos to Kael for pulling that off as successfully as he did. On the other hand, he specifically wanted to work on the backstory, and it's pretty obvious mr. Wardell had very specific plans about that allready; it is quite understandable that didn't go further. That does not reflect badly on either of them.

Would the game profit from Kael's experience in other areas? Of course it would. He's been breathing FFh2 for years, and has wrestled with a lot of balance and pacing problems, and has some elegant solutions for them as well. But that's not what he offered, by the looks of it.

Now, for those that haven't played FFh2... do so. It's great. My personal favourite faction is the Calabim - the vampire lords. 

Reply #58 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Zawath, reply 7
Kael already asked if he could work on Elemental's backstory but Brad turned him down

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7415642&postcount=2

 

Hahaha.. jesus christ Brad what the hell man? Kael is awesome.

Wow.

 

Welp at least we get FFH3 for Civ 5. I can't wait for that with Civ 5 mechanics it is going to be ridiculous, especially with how Civ 5 does combat now.

Reply #59 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GaelicVigil, reply 22
Dear Kael: please stay away from Elemental.  We don't want your crappy game design over here.  FFH2 was vastly overrated and felt like an amateur project in every respect.

 

Wow you have bad taste in games! No wonder you think Elemental is good. Congrats!

Reply #60 from Elemental Forums Top

Don't feed the troll guys ! :troll:

Reply #61 from Elemental Forums Top

right now elemental is not what i was hoping for when i bought the game and from the year + i was checking website for updates. comparing it to FFH2 i accually bought BTS expansion just so i could try it out for myself. i have to say it was well worth it. for it being a mod the game is better put together than elemental. i really hope they fix elemental to be as enticing as FFH2 is. and for SD not trying to pick up KAEL is major fail.

Reply #62 from Elemental Forums Top

Civ IV is awesome ... FFH2 (the better versions) are 10x better than Civ IV

the (lesser) versions of FFH2 are around 2-5x better than Civ IV.

 

So yes, of course it's good/better than a lot of games because it uses Civ IV, which by itself is better than a lot of games.

 

Some of FFH2's best art assets were the unit-models that were originally created by the team.

 

As for the rest of their art assets ... there is a "reason" that they didn't accept donations, and it wasn't just because they liked charity.

Reply #63 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 62
Civ IV is awesome ... FFH2 (the better versions) are 10x better than Civ IV

the (lesser) versions of FFH2 are around 2-5x better than Civ IV.

 

So yes, of course it's good/better than a lot of games because it uses Civ IV, which by itself is better than a lot of games.

You forgot to add the following sentence: "This is my subjective opinion!" :P

[Note: I really respect Kael, because TC mods like FFH2 or the Third Age mod for M2:TW are expanding the lifespan of the games & improving them as well.]

Reply #64 from Elemental Forums Top

Honestly, art assetts are the LEAST concern, in my opinion, next to solid game design.  Once you've got that you can hire whatever graphic designer you choose.  Yeah the art (and sound) were borrowed, but that's fine; it's a mod.  It took the Civ engine, married it with a well-developed backstory and lore, and gave players many more ways to play any given session than vanilla Civ4.  Would the Infernals or Mercurians triumph?  Would another Age of Ice come about?  Would the good, bad, or neutral civilizations control Erebus?  Do you pursue magic, religion, war?  Ffh2 was (and is) all about more ways to play in a dark-fantasy themed world.

Now, I'm going to play some Elemental while I still have a little weekend left.  Love the game Stardock, much potential here!

Reply #65 from Elemental Forums Top

I hope Kael stays with Civ and does his magic with Civ 5!

Although I guess if he could work on both that'd be great as long as he puts Civ 5 first! :grin:

Reply #66 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 62
Civ IV is awesome ... FFH2 (the better versions) are 10x better than Civ IV

the (lesser) versions of FFH2 are around 2-5x better than Civ IV.

 

Hey, you might be able to help me... where can i find out which versions are better? I'm currently playing around with the standard FfH2 mod. But I see there are loads of modmods. Any you can recommend? I don't want the game to get any bigger, but if there are any that streamline it a little, improve Ai, or generally improve it, I'd love to know :)

 

Thanks

Reply #67 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting riadsala, reply 66



Quoting Tasunke,
reply 62
Civ IV is awesome ... FFH2 (the better versions) are 10x better than Civ IV

the (lesser) versions of FFH2 are around 2-5x better than Civ IV.




 

Hey, you might be able to help me... where can i find out which versions are better? I'm currently playing around with the standard FfH2 mod. But I see there are loads of modmods. Any you can recommend? I don't want the game to get any bigger, but if there are any that streamline it a little, improve Ai, or generally improve it, I'd love to know

 

Thanks

You are looking for the "Wildmana" mod in that case. :)

Reply #68 from Elemental Forums Top

try wildmana, of all the big modmods it adds the least ammount of content, although it has quite a bit too. the main focus is gameplay and ai. we currently work on version 9.0 (you can get the beta here: http://www.epicdestiny.site90.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=6) which has a totally revamped magic system, much more akin to MoM or AoW2:SM i.e. you have a second research tree for spells, global enchantments, terraform rituals, summoning rituals, spells cost mana, combat auras and so on. if you don't want to try out the beta you can find the base 8.x version on civfanatics :)

Reply #69 from Elemental Forums Top

Fantastic.

 

I'll look into it. And it should keep me busy until Ele is tidyied up.

 

Thanks a lot :)

Reply #70 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting solidsmooky, reply 58

Quoting Zawath, reply 7Kael already asked if he could work on Elemental's backstory but Brad turned him down

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7415642&postcount=2

 

Hahaha.. jesus christ Brad what the hell man? Kael is awesome.

Wow.

 

Welp at least we get FFH3 for Civ 5. I can't wait for that with Civ 5 mechanics it is going to be ridiculous, especially with how Civ 5 does combat now.

Uh, I don't think Elemental has backstory problems. You may recall that Elemental has a book on the shelves. A book, I might add, that is pretty good.

 

Reply #71 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting tesb, reply 68
try wildmana, of all the big modmods it adds the least ammount of content, although it has quite a bit too. the main focus is gameplay and ai. we currently work on version 9.0 (you can get the beta here: http://www.epicdestiny.site90.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=6) which has a totally revamped magic system, much more akin to MoM or AoW2:SM i.e. you have a second research tree for spells, global enchantments, terraform rituals, summoning rituals, spells cost mana, combat auras and so on. if you don't want to try out the beta you can find the base 8.x version on civfanatics

 

What?

much more akin to MoM or AoW2:SM i.e. you have a second research tree for spells, global enchantments, terraform rituals, summoning rituals, spells cost mana, combat auras and so

Wat?

you have a second research tree for spells

Whaaaa

Well...shit!

Brb, downloading...

 

Reply #72 from Elemental Forums Top

Wild Mana and Rife are (imho) the better ones currently available

Orbis, while good, is too much like original Civ IV or Rise of Mankind.

 

Basic FFH2 is best for multiplayer.

Reply #73 from Elemental Forums Top

I prefer RifE myself, but it's.. ah.. not for those new to FfH2. It has a truly staggering amount of new features, it feels like almost as much of a change over regular FfH2 as FfH2 is over Civ4. It's definitely something to look into when you've played regular FfH2/Wildmana/Orbis to death and are looking for more replayability, more new things to try, more everything.

Reply #74 from Elemental Forums Top

Heh ... there is also always Magister mod xD .... ;)

Reply #75 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 74
Heh ... there is also always Magister mod ....

 

I miss Tweakmod.  I would have loved Tweakmod with Wildmana's AI improvements and ranged warfare, and the Landsknecht Civ from Orbis (only mod-original civ I liked)