Agreed.

It is a great idea to be able to design units, but in every game I play I end up designing the exact same units as last time. Of all the choices you can make when designing a unit, there's only one that is reasonable. This makes unit design a bit pointless.

The problem is the weapons differ merely in a linear progression of stats. They need to be shifted around somewhere, for example make the shortbow quicker than the longbow. In fact, ideally make the shortbow more accurate with lower damage, and the longbow higher damage with less accuracy. It's then a choice between chipping away slowly at the target health, or a gamble on causing serious damage with a much higher chance of missing.

When two weapons are given at same tech, or two very close techs and they do pretty much same function, one needs to be cost-effective one and other powerful-expensive one.

This is something that I also found lacking in armor department. They usually unlock two armors, one stronger and one weaker, but taking stronger is just no brainer. In fact sometimes weaker armor is even weaker from strong armor from previous tech level.

personally i think shortbows should be in basic equipment and longbows a specific later tech. this way i will not be ten techs into warfare before i get any archers and 12 techs in before i end up replacing them.

Shortbows definitely need something to uncrappify them.

Possibilities would be...

Longbows are not useable on horseback.

A unit can have both a shortbow and a one-handed weapon. The shortbow is classified as an off-hand item like a shield so you can have a melee weapon as well.
If the enemy is adjacent, you use the melee weapon, otherwise the bow.

That would be the weapon combo of choice for your average skirmisher but alas, "skirmishing" isn't really a possibility in the current combat system.
It's just to blunt for that. Fixing that is an entirely different issue.

Since there are no better bows ever, both bows should be useful alternatives for use in battle.
Not just having the useful bow and the crappy bow.

Agree that decisions are necessary.   Even range would make it worthwhile - short = 4 tiles, long = 6-8.

Short, 3gp, 3 damage, 4 range, 80% accuracy, usable mounted, 20 ammo, piercing

Long, 8gp, 6 damage, 7 range, 70% accuracy, not usable mounted, not usable if enemy adjacent, 20 ammo, piercing

Great, 12gp, 9 damage, all tiles, 70% accuracy, not usable mounted, not usable if enemy adjacent, if hero use-strength taken into account for damage, 20 ammo, piercing

Then have 2 or 3 unique bows with great bow stats but special on hit.

Still think its way too cheap, as it is now, why would I build anything else?   5 stacks of archers = 10 ranged shots = all fodder dead on first round, then chip away at larger.   Then, when crystal starts coming in - I buff my archers into "rangers" and give them +attack magical gear and movement...unstoppable.   Need ammo limitations/range limitations, etc   Could buff damage and make more inaccurate I guess.

Well, there is another suggestion in other topic and that is penalty for obstruction/terrain/range. I dont really know in the real world what is the big difference with a short and a longbow... but it could be a start to know why some army choose shortbow and some longbow. My tough about it should be that bow are bound with strengh. Lower str = shortbow. Higher str= longbow. Maybe more training with the longbow, I dont know the training time between long and short bow, but it should have a difference. Add some defense for the piercing and the "foot" soldier would be more effective against archer. Add special move like "turtle walk" (you know: all the soldier raise their shield to form a tortoise shell) to add defense from arrow and you balance things out . Just some idea.

I really like the range limitation.  But I would probably even go a step further.  Start decreasing the ammo count as your bow gets better.  Have Long have 15 shots and the Great have 10.

Since Long and Short are the only two in the game.  I don't recall the material count but I would add an additional point for long bow, and add on extra gp. You could also require the long bow be used by veterans or above.  Love the suggestion.

Because there's a problem with the 3rd patch of a game which has been out for less than a month... forcing you to wait 1 week until the 4th patch?  

...fanboy

...must...not...be...rude...

ok.  here is the problem with your logic.  say i bought a car one month ago, i drive it home and it starts to show a TON of problems.  the dealer agrees to take it to the mechanic three times, and it is still not working properly.  the dealer then tells you that he will have it fixed next week.   in the meantime you are walking everywhere. 

not entirely related but i want to continue this metaphor:

here is the best part - those of us that bought this game because we love strategy games know that the BMW of strategy games is coming out soon(and it won't cost the much more than the clunker did!).  now will you keep walking?  or will you buy the bmw?  it would be funny if it weren't soooooo sad.

stardock screwed up big time by not getting this game fixed before CIV5...

Except a video game is not a car.

One we need a more effective armor system -   

Light Armors should have no penalty to movement- (thanks for Noticing my fail logic Malsqueek) 

Each armor should have a Ratting for Blunt, Pierce, Slash, Magic(or element) This would be added or subtracted from the damge done by weapons of this type.

So light armors Such as Padded,Leather,   would be weak to pierce,  but stong vers Blunt, normal for slash.

So you have a Def of 3 from the padded  With  a subrating of (+2,-1,0,0)  Its alwyas Blunt,Pierce,Slash,Magic  

So a he gets hit with a club , for this attack its Def 0-3 +2  So he will always roll at least a 2 for def up to 5 just for his chest piece,  

Now if He had been shot with a short bow it would be 0-3-1 so He can only roll a 0-2 on def.  

Shields should have an % to block arrows...  Bigger shields biger block%   add a speed penalty for larger shields   

This would make the armors much more tactical -   So chain mail dose almost nothing to stop blunt weapons but its really good vs Pierce and slash.

Bows need lots of work...    They need  a min range, and a longer max range with a Close, medium, long, extream  each range would have a +- modifire

Short bows - No min range, max of 6  

Long Bows - can not shoot next square, range of 9 

Great Bows- Can not shoot right next to them, range of 14 

Cross Bows,  Really would like to see cross bows, Unlike normal bows they only get one use per turn - No min range - but get a 10% to hit bonus- get a + pierce damage mod.

Hand Crossbow - Small off hand Weapon dose 3 damage  max range of 4  can be used mounted 

Crossbow- Damage of 8  max range 8 

Repeating Crossbow- Small Crossbow that can befired mutiple times a turn-   Damage - 4 max range 5 - can be used mounted 

Heavy Crossbow- Damage Of 12 max range 12 

Arrow Head techs- The +- Pierce only comes in to effect if the armor has a Pierce +-Ratting  Dose not incress damage -    

Barbed Arrowheads,- equipment -  These arrow heads have jaged bladed sides with a back facing barbs -  + 3 Damage - 1 Pierce 

Armor Piercing Arrow Heads - Equipment -   These arrow heads are forged to penatrate Heavy armor -  +3 Pierce 

Heavy Armor Piercing Arrow Heads - Equipment -  Theses are Heaver Armor Piercing Arrowheads , + 6 pierce - 1 range 

Lol now Im late for work .....  

that is why i used the word "metaphor"

Is this supposed to be a sarcastic thread?

There is absolutely no difference in item shop costs with version 1.08. Ceder longbow is still 152 gilder, same as it was before .. btw so is the price of everything else too. The only changes I've seen so far are 75% reduction in gold & experience from combat and a flat 1mp cost across terrain types (basically units go a bit faster through woods now).

everything you just said (except the 75% gold thing) points to you playing an old savegame and/or mods.

That's a little backwards.

Wearing MORE things should never make you move faster unless it is power armor. Light armor (padded, leather) should have a negligible effect on movement, and all other armors should reduce your maximum speed to a set amount.

Light Armors should have no penalty to movement- (thanks for Noticing my fail logic Malsqueek)  

But any problems with the other stuff?   

I would like to see bows balanced by Having ammo.

Can see  Some New Equipment - make It Auto Equip the Arrow Quiver when a bow is equiped. 

Small Arrow Quiver (6), Arrow Quiver (12), Large Arrow Quiver(24)   The bigger with a speed penilty or something...   Lol back to work for me 

.

In terms of your other stuff, I think it's largely good.

I mean, there's really no way to fix the TACTICAL issues with ranged weapons for as long as the AI is not fully as capable as humans to do silly stuff like waiting while the enemy approaches.

We can, however, mitigate the unholy goodness of their actual effect through proper balancing.

I DO agree with you that they need ammo, and your Quiver idea is actually a really elegant way to solve that. 2/4/8 arrows per tactical combat or some such. The other things I'd like to see is the actual damage window for them get narrower, and have the maximum decrease across the board (you can consistently do softening damage with them, but make it rather hard to kill outright using only bows).

Additionally, I'd like to see any and all units equipped with shields given a 10-20% chance to avoid non-magical ranged damage outright. That gives a benefit to using hand weapon/shield over two handed weapons, and also create a nice balancing foil for the high damage output of the two handed weapons.

Crossbows would be all well and good, but that's not something that I have any firm need to see in game prior to the revamp of the magic system.

a product is a product. 

if it helps:

say i bought a game one month ago, i take it home and it starts to show a TON of problems.  the developer agrees to patch it three times, and it is still not working properly.  the developer then tells you that they will have it (mostly) fixed next week.  in the meantime you are wasting time posting on their forums. 

this is not a metaphor:

here is the best part - those of us that bought this game because we love strategy games know that the pinnacle of strategy games is coming out soon(and it won't cost the much more than elemental did!).  now will you keep wasting your time waiting for this game to get out of beta?  or will you buy CIV5 and forget about this game?  it would be funny if it weren't soooooo sad.

stardock screwed up big time by not getting this game fixed before CIV5...

is that better?

WOW I can tell your just a troll that hasn't played the game at all yet. 

1.  There is 2 diferent techs that open it up need to research archery first then research advanced archery

2.  Yes the long bow is more effectice but not even close to being twice as effective as the short bow.

3.  If you don't know what you are talking about don't waste time even trying to form an opinion on the matter.

Um, I'm sorry but, you're the one that haven't played the game enough. It's true that for Kingdom factions, you need to research advance archer to get long bow, but it's not for Empire factions, for them it is one (Piercing Weapons).

Ah your right I don't play the evil races.  so then for the evil people they need to make longbows down another tech.  On the kingdom side it makes perfect sence though I do feel that with how strong ranged weapons are now that 4 gold is way too cheap.  Also on a side note they need to take away archery master on the faction creation mod or make it alot more expensive to take.

On brad's note about today's quick update, the longbow is suppose to be 40 gold.

I agree with you on the master archer thing though. Not only is it too simple to get bows, it also completely breaks the empire tech tree. You could get lord hammer in 1 warfare tech if you do.

Truth to be told. Empire has some really weird ways of unlocking weapon techs.

Like getting all hammers with single tech, including mace which would be outdated at that point, etc...