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Elemental Beta 1G Preview

Elemental Beta 1G Preview

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Tomorrow afternoon we anticipate releasing Elemental Beta 1G. This is the last of the Beta 1 series. 

To reiterate, our betas are not your typical beta. They’re effectively alphas in that there is very little “game” there. It’s mostly about getting early adopters and us talking together about game mechanics and giving each other ideas.

I’ve written this before but in a modern TBS game, it’s 80% engine/assets and 20% “game” (in other genres it’s more like 90% engine/assets and 10% game).  So the purpose of the beta 1 series has been to just let people (and us) try out different game mechanics.  You are getting to see the sausage factory up close which – for us and our beta group is a big part of the “fun” (in a perverse way).

We will have a detailed change log but it’ll be so insanely long that it’ll be hard to tell what the big new things are.

In no particular order:

  • Random Maps (though still hard coded to small) are significantly better quality.
  • New Screen: Choose your sovereign.
  • New Screen: Create a new sovereign
    • You get 50 points to spend on:
      • improving your base stats (strength, intelligence, etc.)
      • Choosing starting spell books
      • Choosing your talents (brilliant, persuasive, hardy, diplomatic, seductive, etc.).
    • You can get points back for giving your sovereign weaknesses (unlucky, insane, cowardly, etc.)
    • Choose what your profession was prior to the cataclysm (mason, merchant, thief, adventurer, warlord, etc.)
    • You can choose whether they’re male or female (see Lorina over there who is a sovereign I created).
    • Decide what your sovereign looks like (skin, hair, clothes, equipment, colors, etc.).
    • Give them a backstory (not functional yet).
  • Official Kingdom Factions are in (Empire factions are NOT enabled)
    • Altar
    • Pariden
    • Capitar
    • Gilden
    • Tarth
  • You can create your own faction.
  • New Screen: Create your own faction.
    • Name your faction
    • Choose what race the faction comes from (race really is superficial, think race as in humans)
      • Amarian
      • Aegeon
      • Mancer
      • Krax
    • Spend points on strengths like Expert Traders, Heroic, Siege Masters, Industrious, etc.
    • Get points back by giving your faction weaknesses (arrogant, supersticious, etc.)
    • Give your faction its own look (i.e. create your own race)
  • Much Better Performance (On a scale from 1 to 10 where 10 is outstanding and 1 is ridiculous, the last beta would have been a 2 and this beta is 4. To ship, we have to get to a 10).
  • Much better memory handling.
  • Updated UI
  • Research Screen heavily updated.
  • New Economic System
    • Cities have 5 levels
      • Outpost
      • Hamlet
      • Village
      • Town
      • City
    • The base amount of money, research, spell learning and prestige is based on the city level.
      • Outpost: 0
      • Hamlet: 2
      • Village: 4
      • Town: 8
      • City: 16
    • Money is spent on upkeep based on the number of cities you have. The first city costs 0. The second city costs 1. The third city costs 2. and so forth.
    • Improvements provide a specific benefit.
      • A library provides 1 point of research per turn for instance.
    • The number of improvements is tied to the City level:
      • Outpost: 1
      • Hamlet: 2
      • ..
      • City: 5
  • Updated City Improvement Building system
    • IN the beta, outposts get 25 sub-tiles, Hamlets 30…Cities 48.  However, we plant to change this to a flat N number and instead have the limiting factor be the radius from the Keep.
    • We also plan (but not in this beta) to have certain types of improvements not require that they be connected to the keep. So a farm or a mine or a sawmill or whatever could be outside of town proper – unprotected but able to be used without having to “snake out” to it from your city.
    • We also plan (but not in this beta) to let users queue up buildings outwards and not care if they have already been build. Need the radius modifier in first.
    • Choosing improvements UI completely redone. Much much better.
    • Certain improvements will automatically upgrade to better buildings at no cost when you have the necessary tech and city level.
  • Unit Design Screen Heavily modified.
    • One of the major design goals of Elemental is that the people for your armies are coming from somewhere. To that end, when you design a unit, you start with your template which is some guy you grab from town. That means each time you design a unit, the base template guy will look slightly different. Skin tone, hair, clothing, etc. Eventually even height and weight will be slightly different.
    • The UI has been cleaned up dramatically.
  • New Screen: Magical Studies.
    • Based on what spell books you have, you can “purchase” certian spells. You purchase these with spell points.
    • Spell points are earned in your towns.
    • For the beta, we have a cap of 50 total spell points. Eventually, this cap will be based on beta tester feedback.
    • Spells all currently cost 50.
  • Magical System In
    • Spells require a combination of Mana + control of shards (Earth, Fire, Water, Air). Many spells only require mana. But the most powerful ones or ones specific to a doing a certain thing (like raising a mountain) will require control of a particular shard.
    • Beta 2 (the multiplayer beta) will determine a LOT of the spells that go in because we expect (and consider it part of beta testing) for users to engage in the cheesiest tactics they can possibly think of. 
  • New Combat System
    • A “Unit” may contain multiple individuals (A “party” of soldiers has 4 individuals in that unit)
    • An Army contains multiple units
    • Elemental doesn’t “stack” in the traditional sense. It integrates. You can put your soldiers, peasants, clubbers, heroes, etc. all in one army and they fight together as a single “unit”.
    • Each individual fights in battle.
    • A combat turn is made up of 10 rounds. The combat SPEED of the unit determines how many attacks it gets during that turn (maximum combat speed is 10 – 10 attacks in a single turn).
    • When a unit within an army attacks, the individuals in that unit all do their attack round.
    • First strike goes to the side with the highest initiative (highest combat speed) with the attacking side getting a bonus to its initiative roll.
    • We have decided on “Hit Points” because we didn’t like “strength”. Thus, it’s Attack, Defense, Hitpoints. 
      • We are looking at adding magical attack and magical defense.
      • The may not be necessary to itemize out like that as spells and weapons can and will do “electrical damage” and “arcane damage” and “fire damage” and such but ultimately it comes from the same finite hit points and unless they are protected from a specific type of damage by a sorcerer or an item they’ll simply take it.
      • This is something that beta testers will be involved in deciding.
  • Heroes level up with each level providing 5 points to spend on improving attributes.
  • We are NOT happy with the road building system. Help us make it better.
  • Quests (these are still pretty rough as we just go the plumbing in)
    • Quests triggered by an event
    • Quests triggered by researching a tech
    • Quests triggered by going over a quest tile on the map
    • Quests can be multi-step (i.e. go here, do this, then return here, then go there, etc.)
    • We DO have a kill the rats in the basement quest in.
  • Dynasties are now in.
    • We’ve temporarily cheesed it so that you just marry a gal (or guy) randomly after N turns. 
    • Eventually you’ll have children.
    • Those children will eventually grow up.
    • When children grow up, you can marry them off to other factions
      • Female children go to the other faction but their children have a 67% chance on growing up of joining her family’s faction.
      • All children, when grown up, become Champions (heroes, we haven’t decided on the official nomenclature, heroes, champions, etc.).
    • Because The Empire isn’t enabled, you cannot currently breed your children to Trogs and Urxen and end up with hideous looking children.  We plan to allow this however in the final version the game despite the horror.
    • The Dynasties are pretty cool.
  • There is a new sound track for background music. It is still very early but should help show where we’re going with this.
  • When a sovereign loses a battle, he is sent home to his nearest city.  Our plan is that sovereigns do not die until their final city is taken UNLESS they are attacked (or attack) on land of the opposite arcane alignment (life/death magic influenced land). If you’re sending your sovereign into battle into the Fallen territory (or vice versa) and lose, it’s over but that’s a case of the player making a very deliberate decision/risk assessment.  You cannot be assassinated.
  • Edge scroll should be in
  • Negotiations basically is not done yet. The AI will pretty much always reject deals. So don’t worry too much about diplomacy yet.

 

IMPORTANT NOTES:

This beta is going to be buggy and incomplete. There’s lots of obvious stuff that just doesn’t work yet or is just plain broken. Bear with us as a lot of “stuff” has come together in the past few weeks from the various groups.

What we are looking for are crashes in particular and memory leaks. When the game crashes, if you can send us as much information as possible (particularly the crash location) that would be great. 

See this post: https://forums.elementalgame.com/364285 to get started.

 

WHEN should the game be fun?

Realistically, Beta 2 should have the game mechanics sufficiently far enough that it should be “fun”.  We will not go to beta 3 until the beta group consensus is that it is ready to progress to beta 3 in terms of “fun” and reasonable stability.

WHEN can I get into the beta?

Officially the answer is Beta 2 which won’t be until mid next month.  However, if you have pre-ordered (or plan to pre-order) we may open the beta for one day this next Thursday and let everyone who has pre-ordered the game up till then in so that if we have to delay beta 2, users aren’t having to keep waiting and waiting because we want to get their feedback in before we go to beta 2.

WHEN is the game supposed to come out?

We are looking at late Summer.  If we’re done sooner, it’ll come out sooner (probably not) if it takes longer for it to be what we want, it’ll get delayed. I want to make sure we’re all on the same page here: This game matters a lot to us. We’ve been thinking about Elemental for a long time so we want to make sure it’s just right. We self-fund our own titles so there is no “publisher” to pressure us. 

That said, based on our internal builds (which includes the full engine that users will get in beta 3) we’re looking at end of August as being fairly safe. If people compare Beta 1D (December) to this beta (2 months later) I think they’ll see how dramatically things have changed. 6 months is a long time but we’ll see.

 

BETA Screenshots:

image  image image

259,098 views 81 replies
Reply #26 Top

Awesome! Hopefully the crash issues have been fixed as well. :)

Reply #27 Top

People that preordered your game should have access to the beta just like the previous beta testers.  These people "Invested" into your game, taking a financial risk, and putting faith into your company.  The least you could do is allow them to test and review your game to help make it a fun game, and not just for one day but the entire duration.

You have nothing to gain by having a small tiny handful of beta testers.  That ends up giving you a really strong misperception on what is fun and what isn't.  Especially when you release it to the masses.  The more people that get to review it, the better your chances are of success.

Reply #28 Top

I like all the ideas here. Can't wait to test all of it.

 

I think it would be fun to to be able to choose how to handle the women. Maybe in our society we know they are intellegent and we could use them. For exemple you marry them off to an idiot and within a few years they control the idiot empire for us.

 

Or then again they could just be money tokens to be sold off to an ennemy empire to get an alliance. I am just saying it would be fun to have the choice.

 

As for the chaneller dying. If he dies your empire dies. Personally I can't see how anybody but a channeler could fight against another chaneller. A champoin could not. I would think anyway. (just my opinion)

 

 

Reply #29 Top

Quoting Juvantei, reply 27
People that preordered your game should have access to the beta just like the previous beta testers.  These people "Invested" into your game, taking a financial risk, and putting faith into your company.  The least you could do is allow them to test and review your game to help make it a fun game, and not just for one day but the entire duration.

You have nothing to gain by having a small tiny handful of beta testers.  That ends up giving you a really strong misperception on what is fun and what isn't.  Especially when you release it to the masses.  The more people that get to review it, the better your chances are of success.

 

That have no invested yet when they pre order. Stardock only takes pmt when you are in. But I agree with the rest. The more the better. However maybe there are more than enough in their eyes anyway.

Reply #30 Top

Stardock is letting EVERYONE who has preordered in at Beta 2. They're thinking about letting people who've already preordered get into this next beta since it will probably be a while before Beta 2.

Reply #31 Top

Beta is a privilege, not a right. Unless you have been charged for the preorder. :P

Reply #32 Top

Great! Summer also seems a bit optimistic, unless September is also considered summer.

The only thing I am still majorily skeptical about is tactical battles, combat mechanics, and unit statistics. I am sure everything else will work out.



The base amount of money, research, spell learning and prestige is based on the city level.

Outpost: 0
Hamlet: 2
Village: 4
Town: 8
City: 16
Money is spent on upkeep based on the number of cities you have. The first city costs 0. The second city costs 1. The third city costs 2. and so forth.

 

If at all possible, you might want to consider making these numbers variables so that in Game Setup, or Advanced Game Setup if you think too many options on the Game Setup screen might be too daunting for many users, you can change these. (Example: Exceptionally Low Upkeep, Very Low Upkeep, Low Upkeep, Default Upkeep, Moderate Upkeep, High Upkeep, Very High Upkeep, Exceptionally High Upkeep.) I could imagine that I might belong to a small but not insignificant group of players who would be interested in having Upkeep be around 4-6x the cost of what you tentatively suggest here.

It should be no skin off your back and keep people happy. That way, debates on how much City Spam is tolerable will be somewhat neutralized. (Similarly for many of these figures.)

Reply #33 Top

I'm a fan of the March 4th (?) idea. Good stuff there for us 'late' pre-orders.

 

As for the patch notes, looks like some interesting improvements.

 

Also, Rats in Basement? Really? I just started a new game of Morrowind last night.

Reply #34 Top

  I'm currently enjoying other posters comments and observations as well as others suggestions in how to improve the game.  Thank you for the update on current progress Frogboy. 

  Juvantei, if you've preordered then Stardock will let you into the next phase of Beta and as Frogboy and Myles say maybe even a little earlier.  Also having more beta testers is not necessarily a good thing.  Having Beta testers who are thorough, diligent, keep a journal and schedules tend to make a better product.  It is good that you want in on helping make the game better.  I can't imagine anyone who is currently in beta not wanting to find each and every bug.  Beta testing is really a job, but many have turned it into a hobby as well, I think.

  Also, with the pedigree and history of games that Stardock is drawing upon, Dominions, UFO, Master of Magic, etc., I'm pretty sure there are some really good testers in for Elemental.  I really am excited to play the game already too, but will be extremely pleased with all the time and effort spent fixing code, changing gameplay, adding art assets, refining Lore and script, etc..

  One last thing.  If you read these forums you will see a lot of users making suggestions or comments because they also care a lot about the games final release.  I think wintersongs sentiment that debugging in elemental is a priviledge proves that.  I'm also happy that at least some, if not many, have that same sentiment.

Reply #35 Top

Hmm, starting to get a sniffle. I can see a day off tomorrow with a FULL long weekend to Test.. err. get better. LOL

I saw this and laughed, and then thought, damn that first spell better be a doosey. (assuming 50 SP is not overtly easy to get...)

  • For the beta, we have a cap of 50 total spell points.
  • Spells all currently cost 50.

I am rather psyched myself. From a 2* to a  4*   in the Stability category? JackPot!  :w00t:

I offered modest help about the Roads issue in the dedicated thread as well. (a little self promotion never hurt ;)

Reply #36 Top

"Beta is a privilege, not a right. Unless you have been charged for the preorder. :P " Quote

 

No, when you preorder a game it is a right, you have invested and put faith into a game, and deserve some respect.  Otherwise, you just go and revoke the preorder and wait till reviews come.  Having people wait around till mid march isn't right.  We have our own feedback that we could add into the game to make it better at stage 1G, not just people who arrived before us.

The more people you have testing and giving feedback, the better.

Reply #37 Top

"Our plan is that sovereigns do not die until their final city is taken UNLESS they are attacked (or attack) on land of the opposite arcane alignment (life/death magic influenced land). If you’re sending your sovereign into battle into the Fallen territory (or vice versa) and lose, it’s over but that’s a case of the player making a very deliberate decision/risk assessment.  You cannot be assassinated. "

 

Doesn't this sound like it should be the opposite? 

So Light battles light with no chance of dying, while if you fight the "other" side you can die permanently.  Won't this promote to attack the same faction you are on?  Light vs. Light and Dark vs. Dark instead of the other way around?

Reply #38 Top

Quoting segallion, reply 37
"Our plan is that sovereigns do not die until their final city is taken UNLESS they are attacked (or attack) on land of the opposite arcane alignment (life/death magic influenced land). If you’re sending your sovereign into battle into the Fallen territory (or vice versa) and lose, it’s over but that’s a case of the player making a very deliberate decision/risk assessment.  You cannot be assassinated. "

 

Doesn't this sound like it should be the opposite? 

So Light battles light with no chance of dying, while if you fight the "other" side you can die permanently.  Won't this promote to attack the same faction you are on?  Light vs. Light and Dark vs. Dark instead of the other way around?

 

I'm think what they are going with is something along the lines of, if you are killed in your own "type" of area your spirit is not completely killed, whereas in the opposite area your spirit has no chance of making it back. I don't think they were trying to impact one way or the other who you would attack. Although you may be right, that it might be very influential, especially early in the game. Definitely something to keep in mind as we play through the betas.

Reply #39 Top

Doesn't this sound like it should be the opposite?

So Light battles light with no chance of dying, while if you fight the "other" side you can die permanently. Won't this promote to attack the same faction you are on? Light vs. Light and Dark vs. Dark instead of the other way around?

You make a good point. The sov is a mad powerful unit, and being able to beat up on your "friends" without losing them is a noticable flaw.

Personally I think that they should go with the Dom3 system of when your leader dies you have to spend time and effort (in dom3 preists had to chant for several turns) to get them back.

Reply #40 Top

I think this way makes sense, and its not as bad as you might think.

If you attacked the light kingdoms first, you'd open yourself up on many fronts.  The fallen empires would come after you and you'd also have the kingdoms to worry about.  So the player is better off allying with the kingdoms, take out the fallen, and then deal with the kingdoms afterward.

If the player spends too much time quarelling with the the other kingdoms, the fallen empire will be too strong to deal with later.  And will kill your sovereign.

Reply #41 Top

Frogboy,

 

Are you considering any type of experience loss or (x)-turns of debuff when a sovereign lose a battle and is sent to a home city?

Reply #42 Top

Are you considering any type of experience loss or (x)-turns of debuff when a sovereign lose a battle and is sent to a home city?

Was thinking the same thing.  There should still be a penalty of some sort when dying in your areas, just not as harsh.

Also aren't there lands that are neither light nor dark?  Is this handled the same as dying in your native lands?

Reply #43 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 17



Quoting Malleus_magician,
reply 16
will the beta 2 be available for people who didnt pre order? (wanted some feedback first)
No preorder = no beta access.


Edit: preorder from Impulse*. Just in case someone decides to preorder in a Gamestop or whatever and then finds that that is not the way to get into the beta.

* you will be charged once you get the beta access. Just in case someone decides to preorder without real money to back it.

Ok thanks. i guess i'll just wait till the game is out and people can show some final gameplay.

Reply #44 Top

Quoting segallion, reply 37
So Light battles light with no chance of dying, while if you fight the "other" side you can die permanently.  Won't this promote to attack the same faction you are on?  Light vs. Light and Dark vs. Dark instead of the other way around?

Good point.

What would be the problem with 'Sov dies if he/she loses fight in another empire's land, but not if loses fight in their own empire'?

Defensively played Sovs won't die, offensively played ones would.

This could be a problem if one wants their Sov to defend a same-faction ally in their lands, but this could be gotten around by modifying the rule to 'Sov doesn't die if she/he loses a fight in an allied same-faction empire's lands' or their own empire's lands, but would die if lose a fight elsewhere'.  This assumes we can declare another empire an official 'ally'.

Reply #45 Top

The more people you have testing and giving feedback, the better.
Perhaps that's true, now that we're on the last stage of Beta 1, but to allow people to come in half way through this first Beta cycle would have resulted in more complaining and demands for a refund than useful feedback  :)

With each new beta cycle, we spend significant effort to prep players as to...
- what we're looking for
- what we're NOT looking for
- the best way to provide that information
...and, most importantly...
- managing player expectations
You guys will be playing an honest to goodness WIP, not a game that's 95% done and you're just stress testing the MP servers.  We're risking a bit of the hype and mystery to ensure the final game is good, so that last point is vital. When we say 'it's not fun ATM', we mean it form the bottom of our hearts (though, I have to admit, the soverign/faction customization is pretty cool).

Anyways, just wanted to make clear why we do these beta's in stages. This 'Beta 1' period has simply gone on longer than expected, but when you're working on the fundamental architecture of the core game, you want to make sure you're not rushing things :)

We look forward to your feedback once you get the game in your hands!

Reply #46 Top

Not to be pushie, but, is there an expected deployment time for 1G?

Is it still on for today the 25th?

My twitch is slowly returning as I wait? :)

Reply #47 Top

Then release it already :)

 

There are only 52 minutes left of thursday here in Norway!

Reply #48 Top

There are only 52 minutes left of thursday here in Norway!

 

Gonna be a long night : )

Reply #49 Top

I think that truly is the misunderstanding.  Gamers are more used to betas referring to something like the Starcraft 2 beta where the game's essentially done except for unit balancing and server load testing.

I'm glad to see some more folks will likely make it in sooner than later, but I definitely agree that it would have lead to more than a few demands for a refund considering the broken mess 1A-1D have been.  Don't get me wrong, that's not an attack, it's just that Elemental is very clearly still being designed and implemented so it's not really fair to judge it based on other 'betas' where you're basically just getting a demo before the game's release.

...so, any word on 1G release?  I keep checking for updates on Impulse in vain.  <X3

 

Reply #50 Top

And I think we can expect a hefty DNLD package as well. :)