Doc,

I take  Lortab 10/500 but alas they do not work as well as they used to. They tend to wear off after 4 hours and the pain lets me know it's time to start moving around. As long as I don't stay still to long, I can deal with it.

I prefer to funtion as part of the awakened world to take anything stonger so my sleep tends to suffer. I've done the percocet, oxycotin and morphine route and decided that it wasn't for me. The odds of something going wrong is too great for me to concider another surgury at this time but I'll probably rethink that once the pain gets too strong for me to handle.

As long as I can still walk, work, and be productive, all is good.

Thanks for the concern...you are a true friend.

Chasbo, I'm nether an Obama hater nor a Republican, but in all honesty currently health insurance is essentially 1) Gov't. (VA, Medicare, Medicaid).  2) Private  3) Employer provided.

In the case of the Military, and 1), this equates to the Employer based since it is, basically, an untaxed benefit. That's how FEHB pretty much equates with that. It shouldn't continue after employment terminates anymore than with any other job.

Yet another reason why HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM is necessary.

Carguy1 - Have you seen a pain specialist, yet?

I broke Forums?  

Please don't rat me out to Jafo.

That's easy--they're government employees. Governments always take care of themselves. I've worked in government, and there are plenty of benefits. Have you noticed how government workforces practically never shrink, no matter what happens? Obamacare will increase the federal workforce immensely, so there will be even more people collecting those benefits that you don't like.

That helps. I haven't studied the system. In Canada, if you're born, you get a health card. I know that the proposals aren't a universal system like Canada's, so there will still be a lot of people who will remain uncovered. It might not make any difference in Karen's or kona's situation.

i do so find it just amzaing that the discussions here still are one side versus the other side.  I hope you do realize we are doing just what the Polictions want, fight amongst ourselves.

Both Political Parties have done thier best, no matter what you may think, to essentially take care of thier 'own'.  I know you all understand that, it's a given. 

Lets face it, they got to Washington for only one reason, and they remain there for only one reason.  Every time there is an election, whether for Senator, Representative or President, the folks running should have strong serious doubts whether they will receive enough votes.  There should be no 'sure thing'.   

What do I mean by the above, the only people that are going to change anything are the votes or 'We the People', the Politician are never going to change anything except thier address.

Government based healthcare is an open checkbook. A corporation has more reason to contain costs than a government ever would, and that's the way these government schemes always work in the real world. The costs will be shifted from the insurance pool to the taxpayer.

Au contraire. They are very interested in entering peoples homes and workplaces. That is very clear if you read the act passed by the HELP senate committee. Aside from that, that's their style. Check out the latest snitch e-mail fiasco perpetrated by the White House.

It's actually about taking over the health care industry. It's being done under the guise of reforming insurance. They have every intention of introducing a single payer system, and they will start that process by creating onerous conditions for the insurance companies, such as requiring them to provide insurance to people with pre-existing conditions, and not allowing the companies to charge more for people that smoke, for instance. That is in the proposed legislation.

You're good at it. I've seen a few of them here and there, and they've almost always been appropriate, and well-put together, not to mention clean and clear, maybe even good-looking. I hope I'm not spoiling you.

I know what you're getting at, but there are honest differences of opinion among the participants here. No politician is making us argue about the different understandings we have, and different they are. We can't just wish them away.

As far as the raising taxes issue, taxes are already being raised to offset the cost of the inunsured, but it's being done on the local level through property taxes.

We can do better than what we have right now, really!  Not enough is being done when it comes to preventative medicine because there are too many people who can't AFFORD preventative medicine, so they have to let things escalate until they end up with a life-threatening emergency (always much more costly than preventative care) -- SOMEBODY pays for it!  If that person ends up having to file for bankruptcy the hospital has to pass the expense on to people WITH insurance -- sort of like a tax -- so if the government got into the health insurance business, it wouldn't have to show a profit, and the expense passed on to the taxpayer would be less!  (I've actually heard some opposition to the public option BECAUSE it would put insurance companies out of business). 

I suppose because I've lived in the US my entire life, and worked in health care for the past 20 years, I don't understand the pitfalls of the sort of socialized medicine Canada and Europe have -- I just see the tragedy and sorrow of the have-nots here in the wealthiest country in the world that supposedly has the best health care in the world.

Correct....that and the CEO's fat salary/benefit package. On whose back? The shmendrick who bought a policy. Thus, we already have rationing.

Enough. I'll never convince anyone. They only become more firmly entrenched...can't hack it.

Thanks...but you should have seen my first efforts. I caused poor Fuzzy to have dreadful bouts of retching. Po' will probably never speak to me again, starkers, angus1949 and Zubaz hope to meet me on a dimly lit street or even darker alley. Most just ignore me hoping I'll go away soon, or sooner. Mostly they say, "I like your approach. Now let's see about your departure." or "The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist." and "You sound reasonable...Time to up my medication." also, "I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter."

So, all in all another success story for the "Eff Up Fairy".

With April coming up soon it might be a good idea for people to serioiusly check out this website  http://www.losthorizons.com/index.html and get educated about how your getting ripped off. And NO...it's no tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theory stuff. Here's your chance to stop bitching about how your taxes are spent...waiting for "tax reform"...LMAO...and do something about it. Or keep paying...they would really love it if you did...no really...they would.

Look, Bud...if I have to give up my tinfoil hat, you can keep your money and the website. In fact, if you do, you probably will keep your money!

But keep your feeelthy hands off my tinfoil hat.

In all honesty I can not say I have put the "Rule of law" I have just learned to the test because I am just relearning all of this myself...as in the correct way of filing an educated tax return. But I guarantee you that come this April I will be doing just that...and from now on. I've spent the last week reading and re-reading everything on the site and rechecking all the claims and IRS codes and I've yet to find a flaw in anything said there. I've even bought the book...which was a small price to pay for all the work that has gone into it.

From this day on I will no longer bend over and pay a tax I do not owe. This is not about being a martyr...taking a risk....gambling with money...or wasting time for that matter. If you spend more than 5 minutes on that site you will learn something. It's about "Rule of Law"...it's about fallowing the law to the letter as it was meant to be...not just ignorantly followed as everyone has been told do all these years.

And what the site explains are not solutions or some hair brained scheme to defraud the IRS...it's about stopping them from continuing to defraud the American public every April and taking back what it rightfully and lawfully mine. According to the Constitution and the IRS tax cade. There is no magic bullet to be found...just the truth about how you should have been filing your taxes from day one. The problem was that it was never the government or the IRS' job to tell you the "Rule of Law"...its your job to learn it...but no one ever took the time to do that...everyone just followed along like a bunch of lemmings jumping off a cliff...and I was one of them as well.

And as far as not wanting to hear about people on the website...friends or friends of friends or relatives...do you know me? I could just as well be one of the people on the site...and soon will be. It is my intention to continue learning everything I can about the tax code before April arrives and put it into practice from now on...and I will also be documenting each step along the way so that I can physically show others how it shoud be done...legally...and then add my name to the every growing list of people that have become re-educated in regards to the "Rule of Law."

On a personal note...I would love to see people actually read what is on that site an learn something...but at the same time I understand why some people won't...and that's a shame.

WebGizmos, I'm not saying that what the website claims is wrong, or that it's a scam.  I watched "America: From Freedom to Fascism" and I'm well aware of the fact that income taxes are illegal.  But I also followed the case of Ed and Elaine Brown, and I don't want to end up like them!  They were right not to pay their taxes, but that didn't stop an onslaught of various government organizations to hold them siege in their own home, and then haul them off to jail, and forcing them to pay what the IRS says they owed, plus interest and penalities.

I can no more stand up against the IRS than I can standup against the Mafia, (for they run the same game by the same rules!).  I just don't have the kind of muscle that it takes to buck the power holders.  It's an illusion that we live in a just world, and that the United States is an honest country.  All one has to do is look at how the United States was BORN, to realize this is a con game of the highest order.

If you have the intestinal fortitude to put yourself out there along side people like Wesley Snipes, and the Browns, I will respect you, but please don't call me to bail you out of jail, because I'm doing everything I can just to tread water.  If, on the other hand, you know of some massive angry mob, where I can protest anonymously with a group of other people who are just as discontented and batshit crazy as I am, let me know about it, because THAT event is on the top of my bucket list.

Government insurance programs routinely deny benefits for an obvious reason--free health care is super expensive to the taxpayer. They end up discriminating against certain groups of people like smokers, the overweight and the elderly in order to cut costs. Having to make a profit, that is earn more than you spend, is a great motivator that is missing in government-run enterprises. They almost universally get into cost overruns. Health care is no different in that respect--Medicaid and Medicare (and Social Security) are going to go bankrupt in the not too distant future; this new plan will only make it even more expensive and hasten the arrival of bankruptcy. Isn't it ironic that in the end someone like you probably won't even qualify. There is no plan that provides universal coverage for the entire population.

Perhaps you don't mind the Health Care Police compelling you to eat your vegetables, make you exercise, and stop doing things they don't like, but I detest the idea. America was founded on the principle of minimal government intervention and individual liberty.  There's more risk in life when you have more responsibility for your own well-being, but it's better than being oppressed. Individual freedom is a valuable commodity. Demanding that people live in a proscribed manner in the name of health care costs is no less oppressive than any other excuse. I'd prefer to keep that at a minimum.

John, I thought you lived in Canada -- don't they have government health care up there?  Why do you care about what Acorn does here?  I'm totally confused about your interest in this.

As for "Individual freedom is a valuable commodity. Demanding that people live in a proscribed manner in the name of health care costs is no less oppressive than any other excuse." -- I guess in this situation to me, at least it seems reasonable -- we have so many freedoms' being suppressed which have nothing to do with the good of the people, but simply a process to guarantee the maximum amount of power and cash get funneled into the prescribed hands, for no good reason, I find it refreshing an altruistic purpose would be offered up for a change.

Really? Could you show me when that happened and where...be specific please.

Yeah. Some motivator. Denial for breast cancer treatment because you forgot you were treated for anxiety decades before? Or for acne? No, their yachts sail on a sea of blood. I know because I quit a job at ****** because they asked me to find ways to deny claims.

"They" aren't going to make you do anything. I've said that several times, but it doesn't make a dent. Actually, if knowing what is healthy you decide to do the unhealthy, you should pay a higher premium or not be covered for any negative outcome resulting from those things. That's the responsibility end of freedom. Saying that x number of times won't convince you, nor will x+1 times. 

It however irks me a bit you telling me which principles America was founded on, while being Canadian. Would knowing my first relative arrived here on the Mayflower, wrote the Mayflower Compact and was the first Governor of Plymouth Rock Colony deter you in the slightest, I wonder?

I understand where your coming from Karen. The problem is that there are tons of sites out there all claiming to get the IRS off your back with one hair brained scheme after the other...I've seen lots of them. And a lot of well intention people followed bad advice and paid the price.

But losthorizons.com doesn't make any claims...it only educates you in the "Rule of law" according to the IRS tax code and the Constitution and then you can either choose to learn and understand what its telling you and put it into practice or you continue to pay taxes you don't owe.

And I know what you mean about being poor...I used to be able to at least say I'm reaching up to touch bottom...but I can't even see bottom anymore...which is exactly why I won't be giving them anymore money that doesn't belong to them.Just read the site Karen...it cost nothing to learn by reading...and then maybe as you get a better understanding of what the "Rule of law" actually is you might just get the courage to "abide" by the law...think about that.

I know there's a lot to read on that site...but you owe it to yourself to read it...I've been on it for the past week and haven't even put a dent in it...but it's worth the time.

"I am a revolutionist by birth, reading, and principle. I am always on the side of the revolutionists because there never was a revolution unless there were some oppressive and intolerable conditions against which to revolt."
~ Mark Twain ~

"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
~ Mark Twain ~

Yes, ma'am, I'm Canadian, and we have nationalized health care, so you and everybody would be covered within the limitations of availability. They don't cover everything, many important procedures have long waiting lists, sometimes people die because of that, some people have to go to America to get treatment, it's ILLEGAL to operate a private MRI clinic for humans, but not for dogs and cats. We're pure up here in that regard. Did I mention that it's extremely difficult to find a doctor?

ACORN is a criminal organization engaged in intimidating people that registers phony voters all over the country. These are the people that you think are altruistic. Altruism isn't defined as using someone else's money and giving that away. President Obama has a long and important history with them, used them in his election campaign, and told them after the election that they would influence his decisions. Giving taxpayers money away to someone is not altruistic.

As for my interest in America, it's because it's an interesting country. There are a lot of Americans that don't seem to appreciate their own country, but it's unique in the world. It was founded on different principles by men who appreciated the dangers of power in the hands of the few, and devised a system to have competing powers struggling against each other. It limited the power of the government on purpose.

You should investigate the background of President Obama's cabinet, and especially his czars. Do you realize that these czars have no legal accountabilty to congress? The purpose is to concentrate power in his hands, and he is exercising it. He has succeeded in muscling out the owners and bondholders of two of the biggest carmakers in the country, and given the companies mostly to the unions, all without congressional approval or oversight. He is now dictating executive salaries for them, private companies that used to belong to the shareholders and bondholders.

Your problem with American health care is not the care itself, but the fact that somebody is not paying for yours, or your daughters, or other people who can't afford it. People from all over the world go to America because it's the best care there is, for the most part.

America is a bit of a shining beacon to the rest of the world, which makes socialists around the world furious. I don't want to see that light go out.

They end up discriminating against certain groups of people like smokers, the overweight and the elderly in order to cut costs.

Really? Could you show me when that happened and where...be specific please.

Just something I saw in the news about the National Health service in England. I might look it up, but probably not. These are the kinds of things you see from time to time in the news. Patients die from time to time in Canada because some waiting lists for some procedures are so long. Could I name you a single specific instance? No. I don't collect that kind of information.

Having to make a profit, that is earn more than you spend, is a great motivator that is missing in government-run enterprises.

Yeah. Some motivator. Denial for breast cancer treatment because you forgot you were treated for anxiety decades before? Or for acne? No, their yachts sail on a sea of blood. I know because I quit a job at ****** because they asked me to find ways to deny claims.

Do you really think that those kinds of decisions aren't made by clerks in government offices wherever there is nationalized health care? It isn't free. There isn't an unlimited supply of money available for health care anywhere on the planet, and those kinds of horrible decisions confront any entity that has to pay for it. It's a sad fact of life. Are bureacrats sailing on a sea of blood as well? Governments are notoriously inefficent; they use more money to get the same thing done than private enterprises do, and they bungle things more often. I can't fault you for wanting to treat everybody for everything; that's perfectly reasonable.


Perhaps you don't mind the Health Care Police compelling you to eat your vegetables, make you exercise, and stop doing things they don't like, but I detest the idea.

Demanding that people live in a proscribed manner in the name of health care costs is no less oppressive than any other excuse. I'd prefer to keep that at a minimum.


"They" aren't going to make you do anything. I've said that several times, but it doesn't make a dent. Actually, if knowing what is healthy you decide to do the unhealthy, you should pay a higher premium or not be covered for any negative outcome resulting from those things. That's the responsibility end of freedom. Saying that x number of times won't convince you, nor will x+1 times. 

You've said it several times, but you aren't writing the legislation, are you? I'm reading the legislation. I'm in agreement with you about paying a higher premium if you do obviously dangerous things; that's a reasonable proposition. Paying for your own health care is also the responsibility end of freedom as well, isn't it? I'm pretty sure I ran across a clause that says the companies can't charge you higher premiums. Paying higher premiums isn't the same as having the local community organizer knocking on your door and having the authority to dictate to you what you can and cannot do, is it?

It however irks me a bit you telling me which principles America was founded on, while being Canadian. Would knowing my first relative arrived here on the Mayflower, wrote the Mayflower Compact and was the first Governor of Plymouth Rock Colony deter you in the slightest, I wonder?

I may be Canadian, but I can also read. The Declaration Of Independence and the Bill Of Rights are not secret documents, nor are the writings of the fathers of independence, nor are history books or documentaries on television.

It's very interesting to know about your ancestor, and I hope you'll elaborate on that. I'm genuinely curious, but I can't imagine how that has any bearing on the subject. It doesn't add any weight to your arguments, and definitely won't deter me in the slightest.

So--tell us more about your famous ancestor. I think I'm not the only one who'd be interested in finding out.

 

For me one of the attributes a country has to have to be called civilised is to have care for people less fortunate than the majority. For people to not have treatment because they have no money is not acceptable in any modern society.