I personally use the Vasari for 3 reasons: 1. Phase Stabiliser node-great for both fleet movement and trade routes and refineries 2. Neer the end of a game, they can see all interplanetary/stellar movements for all players 3. kostura cannon-true potential reached when you have about 8 fire all at one target and they wipe out everything (even your "precious" Advent defenses and fleets). On another note, perhaps people think the TEC is weak because the independant AI/pirates use their ships. After all, the developers wouldn't force you to fight the strongest ships to expand from the start, would they? I use the TEC too for that "save humanity" motive. And I'm a big Halo fan and they have much in common. I NEVER play as the Advent. Also the AI that uses them is weak even on hard. They get beaten up by weaker AI too. Of course, that's not much to base an opinion on.

Irational fear is right. phase stabiliser nodes and their free fleet upgrade is fantastic for small maps with relativly few resources, and is fantastic for large maps

to explain the small maps thing: building a phase stabiliser node at, say, ten planets and doing the upgrade costs FAR less than the ships you acquire from the Returning Armada ability.

On large maps having a phase stabilisor node on every planet (as i do all the time) is great. while it uses up some tactical slots, i find it is much better to have your entire fleet one jump away than having a few extra bomber squadrons or missile batteries.

based on the advice of several people here, i am playing a game as the Advent, using the Systems of War medium map (one of my favourites) and i am finding it very difficult indeed. the main problem is the Advents lack of a Refinery structure. i KNOW they have the Resource Focus ability, but that is money OR metal/crystal, not both like the TEC or Vasaari

most people don't seem to understand the advent refinery thing...

trade ports and refinerys cost the same, 4 slots. so where TEC/vasari build 1 trade for credits and 1 refinery for metal/crystal, Advent build 2 trades, 1 for credits 1 for metal/crystal. and in any case advent base metal/crystal rate seems to be as good as the other races refined rates.

I hope you put down a few temples of communion to up your economy? Also upgrade starbases with the allegiance increase slots. A lot of the advent income strength is the ability to hold a significantly larger allegiance than the other races.

Also as the last guy noted 2 tradeports, switch 1 to resource focus.

I still like the TEC the most. Well balanced fleet, and they have the strongest Armor anf hulls. That and they can crank out tons of units fast because of their economy. If we didnt have fllet caps, I think they win through sheer numbers

yeah, and if there weren't a limit on allegiance rates, advent would be flipping planets like pancakes.

it seems to me that every race has its own unique method and path to victory

also it seems that each race is as perfectly balanced as possible so the only thing that determines victory between different races is the player's tactics, strategy and sheer dumb luc in some cases

Am i alone in thinking this is a very good thing?

this is EXACTLY what it should be like. yes, TEC have the strongest economyand armour and hulls, yes the Advent have the most powerful shields and culture and allegiance, and yes the Vasaari have (i think) the most powerful ships.

what is key is that every advantage above comes at a price in another area. TEC ships are cheaper and faster to build (and seem to use less fleet points than their equivalents) but they are not as powerful. Advent ships work very well in mixed groups, but af often lacking if deployed in homogenous fleets. Vasaari ships seem to be the most powerful but are more expensive.

this is fantastic i think

as i have said in the OP i prefer the TEC but that is simply the small child in me yearning to be a hero and save the human race. the Vasaari are my second favourite, but that is just the evil megalomaniac inside me that wants to wreak havoc and destruction.

So what if we have a "preferred" race?

each one is, in the final reckoning, equally competent in battle and in economy and equally capable of victory if used properly

so there

Ps sorry if this rambled a bit

Actually, there is a very large difference between the two: refineries also work on nearby gravity wells (one phase jump away, that is), while resource focus of the Advent only works in that particular well. So the Advent can never take extra advantage of neutral extractors. The flip side is that the Advent have no refinery quota, so they can put down as many tradeports with resource focus as they want and it'll all stack. Try putting a ton of tradeports on a desert world with 4 extractors and high allegiance (140% or so) and you'll notice.

Yeah I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head regarding faction balance. Hah but imho the advent are saving humanity from the intolerant and racist TEC... who oppress localised governmental structures and impose their morality all for the sake of a capitalist elite!    WILL NO ONE THINK OF THE CRYSTAL MINERS? When all are joined together in the Unity none shall know suffering etc... I think the point is that none of the sides is entirely good or Bad, they all have their 'sins' so to speak. Just because a person 'looks' like you doesnt mean that they are good.

Someone noted that the Advent, when played by the AI, seems to be weaker than TEC or Vasari. I've noticed a similar thing, where they just don't seem to hold up all that well. Personally, I think that's because of the "slow starter" nature of the Advent. It takes a little while to build them up, both in terms of economy and ship/fleet strength, but the AI doesn't seem to realize this. It'll rush too early, or fail to build decent defences, things like that.

I've been playing TEC lately, and one thing I gotta say is that I do love the Argonev. The Frigate Factory upgrades (when both are used) may be expensive, but damn it's nice putting that sucker close to the front lines and pumping out reinforcements!

[quote who="D Strider" reply="10" id="2185459"]Someone noted that the Advent, when played by the AI, seems to be weaker than TEC or Vasari. I've noticed a similar thing, where they just don't seem to hold up all that well. Personally, I think that's because of the "slow starter" nature of the Advent. It takes a little while to build them up, both in terms of economy and ship/fleet strength, but the AI doesn't seem to realize this. It'll rush too early, or fail to build decent defences, things like that.
/quote]

Also, as you'll notice, autocast sucks, which I presume determines the AI use of abilities. The Advent rely on well timed abilities for their battle strength (like the shield frigate push and the motherships shield restore.) If the AI is triggering its abilities with little or no tactical consideration its fleets will be significantly weaker. The advent start isnt really that slow; early culture centres briefly give a superior economic boost compared to trade routes.

But yeah clever use of abilities is a must, and the AI is incapable of this.

I love playing TEC, I love playing Advent, but regretfully if I believe the game will grow to late game i feel forced to play as vassari.  WHY?  Because it is undoubtibly the BEST LATE GAME RACE by a looonnng shot.  Late game, there 3 things that tie into sucess. 

1. *Fleet*

2. Mobility/Element of surprise.

3.Economy

Now, now wait. what about empire? culture? Alligence?! No no,  by end game your biggest money maker are trade ports and they are not affected by alliegence anyway.  The repel rate of culture is stronger than the attack rate so that cant tie in.  Empire? If your 1 in empire and 2 and 2 in military and economy consider yourself screwed.  But let me explain.  I dont like playing vassari but find that I must when there is a chance for late game play for it's sheer mobility advantage.  If fleets are the same, economy are the same (or theirs is better) the one thing that you have that none of the other races have is suppireior mobility AND the all seeing eye.  You will always know where the enemy fleet is heading, where the enemy has its biggest trade line, where the enemy is send SB WHATEVER and WHEREEVER the enemy goes... you see.  And therefore. Know where the enemy lacks in strength.  Consider this.  Your 1 phase jump away from the front lines... all of them.  The enemy may be 5 or 6 jumps away.  You jump into his planet where his fleet is not his only response is to attack you or defend himself.  Now because you know this you don't need to jump your whole fleet in... Just enough to provide an ankle bite that he MUST deal with. or lose planets.  This forces him to concentrate on that AND the fight that YOUR defending in your own culture area, with your repair ports and that flamin moving SB.  And say he turtles up his front lines?  Fine. Kostra to his dessert with 9 trade ports and take it for your own.  He attacks you? Use that cap that can make a Phase node and return to any place he attacks you.  Come on. realize that sheer mobility can destroy anything.  All the while you know what he is doing and where he is going....

^^^Good point on the Vasari. that phase ability on the Antoraks is so useful its not even funny

How do you build 8 kostura cannons.  Unless you are playing with easy AI or inexperienced players (and they have to be REALLY) inexperienced, there is no way to you should be able to build 8 of them and still have a comparable fleet.

Huge maps.

I rarely get 8 kostura's, usually 4 or 5, but on multi-star maps, all you need is a chokepoint or two and line up the rest of your planets with them. Despite their description, faction super weapons can fire at any planet you have knowledge of, regardless of stars in between. The most Kostura's Ihave ever gotten was 12 (large map, easy ai), but that is simply overkill, 8-9 does enough damage to destroy everything. This is not an exaggeration, just set up. I have yet to play online or Entrenchment, so these estimates may be off .

One time while playing the AI I had 22 Novaliths firing at 1 star system. AI was set 2 unfair and that after I beat and kill 2 more AI. Of course this was in one of my epic long games, over 30 hours. Still not done.

EDIT: http://api.photoshop.com/home_7847619f59f24b2cbf4161f11ea40eae/adobe-px-assets/06328c48dc834bc394823d94b16f6c55

Link for pic of 22 Novalith shots

I like vasari

You get yourself an egg and about 10 assialiants you fire nano-dissambler on their cap ship.

and fire everything you got at that ship. Their armor is reduced by 2/4/6 and thare are getting eatten at a rate

or 30 hits per second straight to the hull.

With that phase missiles from the assialianst skipping through the shields you will kill any

cap ship in less than a minute and it will only take two firings of your nano-dissambler...

Fun stuff.

Vasari are undeniably the best if you use them right. One egg, one of those ships that create a phase stabilizer (cant remember the name) and one seige cap ship that fires phase missiles plus whatever else you throw in and boom you have an unstopable fleet that can be at any of your planets in the blink of an eye. Or an alternate method is use returning armada until your fleet suply is full an you have an unstopable fleet that can win through sheer force, for free!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure any  race is the best if you use them right.

IMO, it's a tight race between Vasari and TEC.  Here's what I like about them:

VASARI:

*  The phase lane you get with the Kosutra shot is a game changer. (You can jump past the front line without having to fight your way thru).

*  The Skiranta (Repair Cloud) gives 30 hull per sec on infinite targets for a total of 300 hull per ship [including itself].

*  The Marauder's (Phase Out Hull) interrupt's w/7000 range, and it's a mobile phase lane generator.

*  Planet killing machine: Jarrasul (Drain Planet), Vulkoras (Siege Platform w/Assault Specialization), and then Skirtana (Replicate Forces: Used on Siege Platforms)

*  Starbase: Mobile, can make a Phase Lane, has 4 weapon upgrades (+20% damage), can self heal from debris, frontal shield, trade port + colony pods.

TEC:

* Economic Superpower.

* Marza (Missle Barrage). Nuff said

* Novalith on auto-fire.  Nuff said.  2 shots and it put's a planet to sleep immediately (-100% pop, and uncolonizable for a long time).  If you build 4 or more of these things, you can put an entire star system to sleep.

* Starbase:  The big red button + Trade Ports + Frigate Factory = Nuff said.

* Eats strikecraft: Dunov (Magnetize), Kol (Flak Burst)

hey twinsnakes, you like saying "nuff said" dont you? And is your name from Metal Gear Solid?

Advent:

* Synergy between units (Shield Restore + Guardians = Invincible Fleet and Malice + Cleansing Brilliance is still awesome)

* Strikecraft. Lots of them.

* Cultural Victory: It basically ups the Advent's already powerful shields when in their own culture, plus they get more culture upgrades (as well as seeing other systems through it) to aid in that on top of the economic advantages. Very useful.

* Advent's starbase has the most powerful fleet killing ability below the Marza (and the Big Red Button, but you only get to use that once) with its meteorite manipulation ability.

* The Halycon rips through strikecraft with its Telekinetic Push even better than Magnetise and Flak Burst. Two Halycons with level 3 TP will own entire fleets of strikecraft.

* Illuminators are the most powerful LRF if used correctly, since you can effectively target three units at once.

Amen to that.

Not to mention it takes less resources and supply to field ships.

and not to mention the missle superpower. 4 research levels I believe?