Thief.

You pretty much just admitted that you're now a full-fledged pirate, and no longer merely a customer angry about inconvenience.  So are your 4 friends. 

You and your Impulse account ought to be perma-banned.   You're already pirating anyway, so it's no loss.

[quote who="Frogboy" ]
Not having total jerks as customers is all the reward I need. Go away.
[/quote]

Just to let u guys (and possibly stardoc) know that ,while u think ur protecting the game and providing patches to only people that have purchased the game, there are milions of people downloading ur game + all the patches and expansions on warez forums. After reading this whole topic i checked a few warez search engines and forums and almost all of them had full working downloads for Sins, its expansion and all patches therefore the whole impulse/security/protection thing u tried to do is pointless. As one member already explained it is very easy to make a .rar with patched files and upload them anywhere. Aside from this game i think the only protection system that has any value was StarForce not because it worked (IT DIDNT) but because it gave a real pain in the arse to al who have tried to play pirated games (i belive they had to unplug their dvd/cd rom and/or use a program that has the same effect like star force nightmare).

I think that noone can make any software (and never has) that couldnt be cracked or what ever thats why we can see all those new ubisoft games (HAWX,EndWar,PoP etc etc) have no protection what-so-ever and are completly free to install and patch on as many computers as u wish (hell they dont even need a serial number just install and play).

While the game devs must understand that there is no security and protection against piracy so must the users understand that game devs will always do everything they can to try to secure they product (even if they know it wont work).

Now stardoc is (no offence) a small game dev company (compared to ubisoft/EA etc..) so while ubisoft for example can forget about security and just count on the cash from people that buy the game anyway and not worrie about going out of buissnis the smaller companies have to think of any possible way of protecting their games.

All in all there is no reason for all that fustration and argument U pay for the game IF u want to SUPPORT the game devs for making a good game (as i think u all should in this case) on the other hand if u dont think the game is good u pirate it kill some time and delete.

Pirates will pirate.

Buyers will pirate if buying and running is too big an inconvenience.

Minimizing that is the goal.

That is the truth that certain companies need hammered into their thick skulls. 

    I think there needs to be a study to compare how much DRM costs a company to implement compared to the number of people that would have bought the game but didn't due to the DRM.  The problem would be traking down people who only have the DRM as the reason they didn't buy, regardless of if they decided to pirate the game as a result of the DRM, and would really have bought the game if it wasn't for DRM.  I suspect that the results would force companies to open their eyes.  Mostly because it would involve money, which is the only thing upper management at certain companies seems to care about.

However, it is easier to start up Impulse and click the update button for legitimate users than it is to track down a pirated version of SINS and torrent it.  Thus Impulse is a success as most people will take the easy way over a harder way every time.

The problem with Starforce was that it was a pain for legitimate users as well as pirates, which sets its value to around zero.  Heck, there was even a small article in PC Gamer about how Starforce and it is on the front page of boycot Starforce site, right under the video of Starforce rebooting a computer during a disk check.

Here is the article by the editor-in-chief of PC Gamer:

Be that as it may the whole concept of Impulse (as i understand) is to allow only users that buy the game to update and it is made useless by pirated patches. It sure is faster and easier but that is only an added bonus while the main task of the application has failed. BTW i was talking about warez not torrents (im sure there are torrents too) but warez is direct download from one of the sharing sites (rapidshare,megaupload etc.) and is much much easier and faster than torrents so that "easy/hard" benefit loses even more of its advantage.

As for SF you are 100% on target it was crap and as i said didnt work but it was the only thing that got painfull enough for pirates that some people would avoid downloading games with StarForce. Aside from that it was pure crap.

I don't believe that's the way they're looking it at it. It's not so much that they're saying only legitimate customers can update. It's that only legitimate customers can update from Stardock. I think they're well aware that pirates will eventually get it anyway. But Stardock's servers are open only to legitimate customers. Impulse does that.

DRM doesn't make up for the fact that some games are simply BAD. Basing a business model off of DRM sales is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

The only thing extra you get when you buy the game legitimately is access to Ironclad Online, which is an online multiplayer lobby within the game itself. It is used mostly by people with no friends that have SoaSE or people with no friends period. You also get to download a convenient program that updates the game with one click.

I have a question though, why would I do this when the online player base for this game is a joke? I can log on during any time of the day and there's like 50 people online on average. Then I have to wait an hour for someone to host a game or if I host for someone to join. When I first bought the game there were even less people online with ICO.

The only time I ever play this game is when I have a friend or 2 come over and set up a LAN at my apartment. Then I can just install my SoaSE disc on as many computers as I want, update to 1.05 and play

The game is good but no one plays it online, so what is the point in even paying $50 for it like I did when it came out.

niiiice, just leave now, seriously, you arent bringing anything useful to this forum, you just want to get in a fight, so good luck, but do it elsewhere

Instead of pirating the game because of the DRM, how about not pirating the game at all?!  Why is it that some people who feel slighted by a company feel it is acceptable to steal from them?

Wrong. You get also the benefit of beeing able to download any time you want the latest version of the game, even if you are lossing CD / serial id, crashing computer after having registred the game. You are also able to get all available free updates.

every time you pirate a game you are voting with your wallet for no patches to be made, for no sequels to be made, and for no similar games to be made.  Pirates are drowning the games they apparently prefer.

And pirating SOASE is so obviously self defeating for anti-DRM zealots that the notion that they are doing anything out of principle is laughable.  If Stardock fails the no-DRM model gets set back years at best, utterly discredited at worst.  Throwing out the baby with the bathwater only begins to describe it.

 P.S.

The original post makes no sense in a SOASE/Stardock 'Piracy does not matter' context. You paid your money, your friend paid his money, the method is irrelevant.  Just don't seed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying piracy isn't wrong, or hurtful. But when a busness model starts shifting towards getting money from your customers in any way possible, at THE GAME'S EXPENSE, then the only appropriate response is to let them go out of business! There's enough trouble in the world without the gaming industry breathing down your back.

If anything, video game piracy reveals that a huge segment of people WANT to play video games.

Irrelevent.  Pointing out the game industries bad behavoir to justify pirates bad behavior is childish.  Yes, vote with your wallet.  Yes, refuse to buy from companies who peddle in sub-standard games.  Just don't sink to their level to prove your point!  Otherwise, you're just like them!

Just to set this in context, i'm happy with businesses protecting their profit through some forms of DRM, like steam and stardock that just aren't intrusive and make amends by providing functionality.

However I agree with your point, when DRM gets extreme (see spore 3 installs) then as customers we are the only people with the power to say NO this is not acceptable, by economically hurting the companies trying to sell us short.

What people need to understand:  this is no black and white issue. When the developers are artists trying to put out unique games for the sake of creativity as well as money ( I would argue that most games associated with stardock fall into this category) then they deserve every penny.

When they are EA putting out spore, bribing journalists (yes I know thats unfounded but then there isnt a whole lot you can prove in life)  to get favourable reviews for a frankly poorly realised game, and trying to limit consumer rights through a gradual creep of restrictions. (3 installs wtf?), then we have to do all we can to stop them.

So you have to make the call: reward companies who deserve it, do everything in your power to stop companies that try to abuse you- corporations have one heck of a legal advantage and hold on the sources of legislation that as consumer you're the underdog anyway...

P.S

I personally find it scary that xbox 360 users think microsoft points for effective patches and charging for map packs is alright.... That would never have flown 10 years ago...

Microsoft Points and similar schemes are actually a reasonable solution to problems of international currency exchange and international pricing and how that interacts with publishing. Customers shouldn't be so limited in the quantities they can purchase though, that part's silly.

I guess its more the implimentation that bothers me, which is more microsoft than their points.

Seriously look at the patching history of TF2 and left4dead on xbox360 and tell me microsoft points are a good thing, Effectively microsoft say that you can only provide so much free support for your product (to a value of microsoft points) b4 you have to start charging, so valve have been unable to patch like they do on the PC (sporadically a l lot) or they'll run afoul of the microsoft charging for support policy.

And Halo map pack charges.... thats just wrong, look at unreal torurnament's inoxx pack, free and with a lot more content (ahh 1999.)

Charging for content less that an expansion is new and wasn't acceptable unitl recently when I think Bethesda basically did the whole horse armour thing and enough people didnt stop and say lulwhut? before getting out their wallets. Now that the precednt is set everyone charges for anything (like Halo map packs) because they know they can. Worse still the prices are usually disproportionate to content imho.

Sorry for potential fanboism but I think that Entrenchment is a pretty good price for the content it adds, about £2 more than 'horse armour' if i recall correctly.

That was off topic, sorry, but i think DRM and charging for nothing are part of a similar trend of overpowered companies, underaware consumers.

i agree, i was VERY surprised to get an expansion for less than lunch, especially considering how much work they put into it.

i also have to say thats why i dont have Xbox live. ive never tried it, but i think its just another way for bill gates to line his pockets some more. also very upset with Bungie for selling out and screwing around playing with Halo 3 and especially 2 until 2 months before release and going, oh crap, we're making a game, we should start working...

ive said it many times before, really dont think Impulse is bad DRM. one of the worse cases ive had to deal with is installing and EA game off a disk and having to wait 2 months until i got internet to verify the game and THEN i could play it. for the last time, YOU DO NOT NEED IMPULSE TO PLAY SINS! only upgrade, but then you need the internet to upgrade anyway, and possibly a WinZip style program to unpack the upgrade or whatever, so id much rather Impulse, with all its other things like forums and auto-updating and news and game installs, than a stupid bloody website with file downloads

whats this horse armour stuff though?

Oh it was part of my off topic rant about consumer awareness

Um, basically the elder scrolls 4 'oblivion' had a pay for DLC called horse armour, that costed about £4 (I think entrenchment costs about £6) and errr consisted of two armour skins for your horse.

66 percent of entrenchments price and you get two useless model skins..... (they did give your horse more health, but that was hardly a gamechanging mechanic.)

Biggest rip off ever, but imho one of the times that piracy is justified

I'd just like to (belatedly) toss in a comment here.  Impulse is pretty darn nice - IF IT WORKS.  For me, it does not and has not.  I've removed/uninstalled/erased/younameit more times than I care to mention in the past 4 months... I can NOT upgrade.  I've written to support - no response.  I've read the forums and tried everything i've seen there...

Something on my system - and I have no idea what - is messing with the upgrade process.  If I used windoze more, or even played SOSE more, I'd probably dig into it more..

On the other hand.. there's somethine inherently flawed with the software when an *automatic* upgrade fails.

ive never had your problem... but like you said, its something on your system, dont blame stardock because your comp is busted. i mean, they cant exactly say, right, to use Impulse you can no longer go to porn sites or places where you are going to pick up a virus etc...

You do have .net framework installed right?