Well said. Also the manual gets out of date the day after publishing due to the continuous improvement philosophy used by Stardock. Its similarly the reason many games are switching to pdf supplied manuals, apart from the sheer cost. If fan bases insisted on printed manuals I guarantee game prices would move up dramatically. Given the choice, I'd opt for printing out a supplied pdf file on my own printer any day, hugely cheaper.

Sid's Civ series gave up printing full manuals years ago - dear god they would be hundreds of pages long covering everything ..... never get read by most people.

Ask me one on Rocket Science :LOL:

Regards
Zy

Good news Kryo. :CONGRAT:



Ohh poor you.....I'm pretty sure you were promised nothing, i'd say you assumed...and you know what they say about assumption being the mother of all frak ups.

Wait for the printable jewel case slip that Kryo mentions above and but a DVD case for it and place that on your shelf.

Hey i wanna see if this works for me....

Brad Wardell, please respond here. I want GalCiv3 NOW!!!!! Do not wait 3 more years to make it, go and start coding the AI now...You promised us you would....;p
:LOL:

Funny you mention that, I still have my 200page long CivII manual and no it didn't get read all the way through either .

The best manual for GalCivII TA is right here. The forums have provided me and many others with a wealth of information you could never find in a manual. Saying that though, a big help would be for people to support fansites like Lord Kona's GalCiv2Guide by contributing what they can. Having an organized online reference that can adapt and change to go with the updates in the game is more useful than having to find a place to stow another paper manual.

I'm not going to get bent out of shape over $5 or so, nor do I care that much about a box, but I paid through Paypal, and I could have sworn that $10 was automatically added to my order for shipping... (I was not given a choice between box for $10 or a CD for $5-$7)(I live in the USA)

Frogboy, I have tremendous respect for what you've done with GalCiv and I thank you for responding. But I'm sorry you are rude to someone who has supported your game so strongly for 14 years. I don't want a refund, for crying out loud. And I'm sorry you ignore the main complaint of the misleading image of a retail box plus misleading text on the order page. As I said, I would still have bought it if the advertising had been less deceptive, but I wouldn't feel tricked.

You say you've never shipped an expansion in a retail box. That's false. I'm surprised at you. I have Dread Lords and Dark Avatar in separate retail boxes. One I got at Amazon and one I got from a local store. I'm really quite surrised to hear you misrepresent things like that. You must be defining your words in a Clintonian way.

These guys here who say a piece of software can't possibly damage a monitor are sort of religious cultists. Just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it didn't happen to me. I play all kinds of games all the time. I routinely have my monitor on for more than 16 hours a day. I frequently am playing the same game, with the same UID up on the monitor, for more than 8 hours at a stretch. Sins is the only software I've ever run on any monitor that left permanent burn marks. The bottom part of the UID is permanently etched across the bottom of my monitor like a nebula. I'm not going to replace the monitor just over this. I'm not recommending that people not buy Sins which is a good game. But I'm a fairly sophisticated computer user for an awful long time and I know what I see. And there is nothing wrong about the way I have the monitor or video card configured. It's the game!

But enough of this crap. After an all-day barbeque, I'm on to the TA campaign.

Bruce,

Take a photo of your Dark Avatar retail box and post it here, because I'm sure all of us, including Brad, would love to see it. The only way you could get Dark Avatar standalone was through Stardock directly (no retail store carried it), and it came in a paper sleeve.

The only boxed version of Dark Avatar is in GalCiv2 Gold, which includes GalCiv2 Dread Lords and Dark Avatar. This is the only way you could get Dark Avatar in a store. As I said, standalone you could only get DA from Stardock.

Anyway, as I said, please post a picture of your Dark Avatar box. If you have one, it's a bootleg/pirated copy.

-HM

I'm not trying to be rude.  You demanded that I specifically respond to your concern. If you want more diplomatic responses, you've already been given them by Kryo and others. 

If you have been supporting our games for 14 years, then you should already know that our stand-alone expansion packs don't come in boxes.  And in all those years, no one has ever complained about it.

That doesn't make it Sins's fault. I'd wager that if you used a similar image (mostly dark with high contrast areas) as your desktop background and left it visible for days at a stretch, it'd have the same effect. If you happen to have a panel that's uncommonly vulnerable to such issues, that's all it would take.

Frankly though, after first noticing such an issue with one of my own displays I'd be in no hurry to continue doing the same things that caused it to begin with without investigating the matter and taking active measures to prevent it from recurring.

Anyway, with only cursory research into the matter of image persistence in LCDs, Dell's name came up a number of times. In fact, they even have a page about the topic on their support site and specifically exclude it from their warranties. They advise using a quickly-changing full screen animation for extended periods to 'reset' the pixels, rather than the leave-it-off technique. This is expected to alleviate the majority of cases, though it can take an extended period of exercising the pixels to do so (even with the leave-if-off solution, it was advised to do so for the same length of time as the stuck image was on-screen).

Good grief. This is one of my top 5 games, and I've been playing computer games since 1967.

This will be my last post in this thread, unless something follows that bellows for a response. I need to get back to my TA campaign.

Kryo, thanks for your follow-on post. I understand why this seems vexing for you. I do have a Dell monitor, and I can't refute your research. It is true that only Sins caused the damage, not at least 20 other games. But I guess you're right I should blame it on my monitor manufacturer. I don't really understand why that makes sense, but I don't want to fight about it.

As for Frogboy, he seems to have a reading disability based on arrogance, and I'm not going to challenge it any more, except to say: piss off, Drengin scum.

I remember 10 years or so ago, i was just starting to play computer games. I did not know better so i just kind of browsed the game isle at local stores to see what they had.

A box caught my eye, it was big and black and had a little emblem on it in silver. Said starsiege on the box. I picked it up and it was HEAVY! I shook it some and it sounded like there was a lot of stuff in there. I reasoned it must be worth the money because of all the weight!

So i bot it with out really learning much more about it.

Got hope and inside was a beautiful full color glossy paper book that just went over the history of the setting, outlined people and places and technology, full of made up quotes and stories whos soul purpose was to be included in that book that was packaged with the game i bought. None of it had anything to do with the game directly. Also was a slightly larger, black and white manual covering everything, it also had little bits of background information, story, and 'useless' things included, between the chapters.

That game was one of the best games ive ever played. And i still lovingly keep the beat up box in a safe place.

I never would have bought it if i did not get the impression that they cared about their game, going through all that extra effort.

Dynamix was a good company ;_;

I guess this is not really relevant, because this expansion was only ever meant to be a digital distribution, and you cant really complain about a lack of good packaging when there is nothing to package!, but still. It just reminded me of something ;_;

Things just seemed to be held at a higher standard then, even the bad games had something included with them that really made it seem like people sat down and tried to figure out how to get your mind into the game. Even the box art, and the little icons that show the labels of the involved companies, they all just had extra touches that seem lacking today ;_;

oh well

Hmm, i cant seem to locate the edit button =x excuse the typos Sometimes my fingers think im wanting to type a different word that what i meant.

Speaking of burn in. I kind of think its neat. I often set my wallpaper to something with the specific intention of burning the image into my screen as i leave the computer on over night. But then i guess im strange.

Oh please. He told me to go 'make my own game' in response to a suggestions / feedback thread. You got nothing, s0n.

Oh and Elysion - yes, Tribes was the best MPFPS game ever made. I was more partial to Tribes 2 myself, mainly for the larger focus on more encompassing teamplay.

So I gotta say, I don't really think that the punishment suits the crime here. I mean, I gotta love your style here and it made me laugh. And I don't agree with the OP sentiments (although I admit to his right to his own perspective), but I think you opened up with both barrels here, or maybe that is just me?

Personally, I gotta love StarDock. I am so addicted to GalCiv 2 that I don't sleep much, and my Fiance' is talking about abandonment issues. Even the cats act like I am a stranger (But enough of the good stuff). I guess, if the worst that this guy can say is "Boo hoo, no box." then his life is pretty good.

anyway, back to dominating the galaxy. Thanks again StarDoc.

Box? I couldn't care less about a box. The manual - that's another story. Not a printed manual, just a manual. Heck, even some release notes would be a huge help. In fact, the info page on the ToA (at https://forums.galciv2.com/310173) is almost enough and was a huge help to me once I found it.

(And yes, I actually opened up and started to read the TwilightManual.pdf *before* I started the game. And I'm not alone! There are at least 7 other people on the planet like me! 10 if you count the folks that double-clicked on it thinking they were starting the game.)

My first question is Why? as in Why does this post exsist? When this game first entered beta testing it was clear that if you pre-ordered the game there would be no box.

When I ordered this game it asked if I wanted the CD option, Because it didn't ask me for a box option I had no reason to assume it would be with a box. Being that I ordered Dark Avatar w/ a CD I assumed it would be exactly like that a CD in a paper sleve.

Any post prior to this that I've seen with the question of this was clearly answered as such. I say to those who feel "ripped off" to stop your whinning and complaining and just play the game if you enjoy it. Stardock I feel as a company is one of the most customer friendly out there, where else can you ask specifically for a response from the CEO and get a response? I have the most respect out there for everyone at Stardock and I would ask that you stop complaining and get on with your life. If your still unhappy with this do as Stardock suggested and attempt to get a refund, what more can you ask for? If they give your money back you are no further behind than you were to begin with and you have your $10 or whatever it was back in your pocket for 2 gallons of gas (if in the US).

Long live Stardock, Thanks for my CD in a paper sleve I received it today and I was not at all disappointed. Exactly as I expected. In fact I was happy to finally have the hard copy.

Forget the Box...bring on the printable DVD slipcase cover....

We anxiously await its arival.

and Thanks for all the great things you guys do..

It seems there are people here that are saying, "it's not a big deal, it's just a box!" The fact is that it's the priciple of the matter right now. It wouldn't matter if stardock was a lumber company or a hair salon, if you buy something from them and they don't give you the good you expect them to give you then it's wrong!

I too had expected a box with DA. My thought was something like this: "It had a picture of a box, so why wouldn't it have a box? It also says shipping for a box. If it looks,smells, and feels like a box, then why wouldn't it be a box?" People who don't know your policies see a box and they assume that they will receive a box. I don't think putting this in the fine print was a responsible thing to do. However I wouldn't know how to fix it. I wouldn't of gotten myself into a bind by making an image of a box and having a cd slip shipped instead.

(Commenting on Brad's comment:)
Who knows that you don't have boxes for standalone expansions? You had a box for DL, but that wasn't an expansion. I assumed that there would be boxes for any expansion, other companies do it right? But how was I suppose to know these policies? Plus the boxes are grouped together here and on the top of the home page. If you are someone that is completely new you would assume that these boxes were for real. Most other game companies have boxes with them, it's pretty much universal. Just take those pictures down because I do believe it is false advertising and deceptive. (Delusive in di55ec7ion's case.) If you do want to keep them then you should have in big(50 font),bold,red letters: "NOTE YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE A BOX WITH TWILIGHT OR DARK AVATAR"

PS
I don't know if stardock is corrupt because it's not my place judge so. What I am sure of is that a CD slip probably costs a whoooole lot less that a box.

I would like to see corporations removed from the political economic landscape because, over time, they inevitably create pathological waste, unwholesome work conditions, and increasingly mediocre products and services. In their mature forms, they alienate people from their work, their co-workers, and their larger communities.

But Stardock is relatively young and small, both of which are good defenses against the core flaws of the corporation as a technology. I have a hard time declaring trust in any corporation, but I want to believe that any money Stardock "saves" by not having a retail SKU for expansion packs helps keep the dev teams working and earning well.

ppes:
Atleast stardock could have a plastic cd case for the game.

Thats for sure - and why personally I'm happy to get pdf's (and CDs or online distribution) - the game price would rise dramatically if we insisted and they supplied Full printed manuals. I usually just print them out on my printer if I want it, although usually viewing the pdf on line is fine frankly.

Pay for an optional one - thats fine both for boxes and manuals. Just dont force the rest of us to pay higher prices for games due to boxes and manuals we dont want or need, especially when - in the case of manuals - we get the info via pdf anyway.

The whole saga is akin to the comments often on products "contains Nuts" which is a good warning and common sense most of the time - but print that on packets of peanuts (which is very common)? Open up the average software box on retail shelf and its a joke. There is all kinds of internal packaging to make the box look bigger - inside is usually just a CD ...... crazy. There really comes a point where all this theoretical description and provision becomes, frankly, silly.

Regards
Zy

Never known a game to damage a monitor. Its not possible. And think you need to check your facts before you go accusing companies of destroying hardware, that they can not possibly hurt.

What happened was you monitor just happened to go when you were playing Galciv 2. I have been computer gaming for almost 15 years and never heard of anything like that.

And crying over a box is silly. Because you know just as much as I do that it will just end up in a corner. And I'm sure Stardock saved a bunch of money not printing those boxes and passed it on to us in savings on the game.

Can you please tell me where I can download. I installed from Stardock and it didn't archive even though I checked that. I like to keep copies of all my software on disk. Thanks.

Not for these strange people who like to line up their software boxes on the shelves like the action figures in '40 Year Old Virgin'.

Some of us like shelves stacked to the brim with books, some of them like . . . other things.

No box is OK - but $20 shipping for just a CD ----- thats a rip.......

I'm just glad mine finally arrived in the mail. Started to get concerned.