Good counters for Illuminators

TEC fighters actually aren't particularly good (unless operating from a Sova with heavy strikecraft passive ability, then they're quite effective). Cost per cost, Illuminators are about the same effectiveness as LRMs. I would use a larger number of LRMs against his Illums (and if he doesn't have much strikecraft, I'd release my flaks to attack his illuminators).

Of course, the Kodiak will tear through them like tissue paper once you get them.

If it's a small map (you and your opponent are 3, 4, 5 jumps away), you can still use the Javelis to great effect. The Illuminator is pretty beastly right now, but still requires three Temples of Hostilities and are not cheap units. Before most Advents can get one out you should be able to get at least a few Javelis out.

If you can sidetrack their production with an early attack with your capital and a couple frigates and force them to produce Disciples, this will slow them down further if they made few Disciples while they were rushing Illuminators. Destroy their Frigate Factory and it's effectively game over in most situations.

It's when the Advent has more breathing room that there can be problems. If you can't get to them before they start grouping significant numbers of Illuminators, Javelis loose a lot of their effectiveness. At that point you have to start looking at other alternatives, Kodiaks will work very well assuming you can get a respectable number before the Illuminators show up. I wouldn't try to do Carriers, they're just too pricy and too easy to counter.

Basically due to the costs involved Advent takes longer to build its first illuminator than TEC, so TEC would have an edge if they started out at the same time doing the same thing. But that is the problem: as a player you have to assess the situation from the start, which a player can only do if they explore early and effectiely. If one is close to an Advent opponent (like 2 jumps) then you will have a big advantage over Advent if you rush. But if you fail to understand that, then you will get rushed and you will lose vs. Advent.

So part of the answer is exploration, and proper map assessment.

Starhaus - very correct

The thing is an advent player has to debate whether to build those three military labs first and risk a small economy, or go econ for the large payoff later.

But to answer the counter question, i've only seen heavy cruisers mixed with other lrm's do the job. Heavy Cruisers are the obvious counter, and they do huge amounts of bonus damage to lrms, BUT, there's a catch if you just build HC to counter Illums.

A smart Advent player will have Guardians too. That's where the LRM's or assailants come in. Countering Advent is tough once they get going, there's no denying it, but it's possible.

I would advise against Heavy cruisers because personally, i have ripped through HCs like paper with Illums and Malice. And once guardians get repulse, you will need LRMs to counter that, but at the same time that's a marker to the start of Destra creation.

scouts


If you cant/dont have minerals and crystals for anything else. Or need something to counter them fast, spamm scouts. If you are tec, you can upgrade them with time bombs, so after you killed illus, you go and gankk the buildings aswell.

so in short, scouts.

Interesting CptSiddy, however I believe countering illums with scouts would be setting yourself up for failure.

Dude, just tech right to heavy cruisers...

It's only 2 extra military researches from advent illums, and he spent all his crystal on those illums, so he can't catch up in time. Once you demolish his illums, start cranking out seiges. Find the planet with his factories.

TEC LRMS are a slightly bigger problem, due to the abiltiy to get them fairly early. My suggestion is to build carriers in a 1:2 ratio like what you did. TEC LRMs are very very squishy, and they will die where advent illums woudn't.

The wrong counters to illuminators:

Flaks, sentinels, defense vessels, lrms, assailants, etc.

If you can properly assailant or sova/lrm rush that's good but you're in for a tough fight against a proper illuminator rush now.

Subverters (multiple illum arc kills them too fast)
Subjugators

The right counters:

More illuminators
Mass fighters
Mass Heavy Cruiser Rush???
Heavy cruisers + fighters
Range Frigates? + fighters
Range Frigates + HC + epic micro skill.
Guardians?
Returning Armada
Novaliths
Situational Counters

RUSH!! Keep the pressure on them!
HCs are not good enough.. you will not have enough by the time the illuminators hit you. Mass fighters work but you need to keep the carriers safe. Also, carriers are countered by defense vessles, and also by HC. Getting carriers on your own without your team being able to back them is risky business.

Also, which race has the best fighters: (Ironically?) Advent.

Basically, the advent are broken early- mid, mid, and mid-late game now.

To beat the illuminators well.. play advent and get illums/carriers


These things are really flippin' hard to beat en' mass against someone with equal logistics/strategic/micro skill.

Dude, advent are not broken. Play TEC and get trade ports up while cranking out heavy cruisers.

I posted a replay on the win customize site. I don't know if its up now. The strategy I use there will cremate an illuminator fleet.

first off, heavy cruiser/srikecraft is not a guaranteed win against illuminator fleet if he has the right combination of units. repulsion would make your HC's useless while the illuminators focus fire on each of your hc's. defense vessels would also make your carriers useless. and quit playing vs AI wtf, you wasted like 15-20 minutes of my time watching that.

Well, I can't wait to kill all your illumators then. See you online.

i dont solely use illums silly. if you've been encountering that in-game then you've been playing with scrubs.

FAIL. YOU are completely wrong. You will die so quick with Heavy Cruisers. LRMs are the only way you'll be able to take out Iconis with repel.

I would suggest to anyone not to listen to cscoles advise. Ever.

scouts early game are yber, you cant belive how many players i have fuckked up with scout swamr, who rushed to lrm's

I love how when people who don't know what they're talking about attempt to flame others.. only to be flamed 3x by everyone else.

That makes a certain amount of perverted sense. LRMs are one of the few things scouts can actually make a dent in, after all.

Use many more javs and a few flaks, or just use kodiaks and hoshinko's.

What else can they dent?

Er, siege, maybe? Oh, and other scouts. ;p

1. Use all of the assets that the game provides.
2. Know your enemy.
3. Be willing to think outside the box.
4. Advent are only strong in formation, so the key is to do to them what they intend to do to you via repulse, which is to fracture your fleet.
5. If attacking an Advent held planet, tell your fleet to hold position after phase jump in system.
a. You cannot be pushed into space (beyond gravity well).
b. You force the Advent player to come to you.
6. Micro parts of your fleet. Send a few squadrons of bombers to start attacking planetary structures and defenses. Always keep 4-5 Siege frigates around and send them to the opposite (opposite of enemy fleet) side of the planet to bomb. Send a force of Hoshikos and Flak to the enemies flanks. Bottom line, make the Advent player react to your moves. Do the unexpected.

7. As the enemies main force cannot be in all places at once they are forced to respond to the multiple threats by prioritizing targets and delegating aspects of their fleet to carry out the missions.


The key to dealing with any enemy or ability is knowing its strengths and limitations. Illums have long range, so negate that by fighting in close with heavy hitters (HC or Cap). Attack Guardians with strikecraft or let them come within range of your LRMs. Use Cielos to DT Guardians/Cap ship and Embolden to make your ships more powerful and tougher to kill. Team up Robotics with Flak and send them into the middle of the enemy fleet. Select a Cap ship with nice AoE weapons (Marza) or one specially suited to destroying massed frigate groups (Kol). Flank with Cobalts. Diversity and adaptability are the keys to success in Sins.

Dude. You're points about knowing your enemy are valid, but you can in fact be pushed outside the gravity well. There are a few counters to illuminators that I have mentioned but the only may be beat guardian repulsion is either with bombers or with a ton of fighters. The only thing that can beat an advent mixed fleet with some repulse guardians is either returning armada or a MUCH bigger fleet. Yes, advent are unbalanced.

I have to disagree with them (Advent)being imbalanced. They are no more or less capable than any other race. The difference lies in the tactics employed.

In order for an Advent player to push a fleet sitting at the edge of a gravwell they would have to be well within the range of your weapons to do so as they can't move you into the space between worlds. That negates the advantage of the Repulse ability. Its like fighting with your back against a wall to brace you. If you have a mixed fleet with LRMs/Carriers/Cielos/Hoshikos/Flak to support your Cap ship/s you can easily hold your own if you put yourself in a position to win. Hence, attacking structures, planet bombing, and flanking manueveres to take the enemy out of his/her game.

Advent weapons are no more powerful than TEC or Vasari so if you do your research and mix your fleet it all falls down to whose approach is more tactically sound. Personally, as a TEC player, I find the Vasari to be more of a threat than the Advent as the Vasari seem to have the best of all worlds when it comes to shield/hull/armor technology. Add in those phase missles and nanotechnology and you get a formidible enemy.