Blair Fraser Blair Fraser

Multiplayer Crashes

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Multiplayer Crashes

from Sins Forums

I apologize for the MP dumps. I've addressed this multiple times in other threads but they've been buried so it isn't because we are ignoring it or trying to hide it - its just impossible to comment on it everytime it reappears in a new thread. Tech support has also been in email contact with a variety of people (including some in this thread).

The MP bug is 1 of 2 major bugs we are aware of and its a sync bug. Statistically, it is very rare which is why it is so difficult for us to track down (we have yet to see it ourselves but we have something going out soon that will help us find it from those who do get it). Also, any multiplayer fixes are scheduled to go out in 1.1 not 1.04. They are in seperate code paths and completely seperate systems being worked on by completely seperate people. This isn't a matter of just throwing the fix into 1.04 and 1.04 development is not slowing down 1.1's development so don't feel we are wasting time on 1.04 (balance + misc) when the *real* bug is in 1.1 (multiplayer).

Now, to save you all a lot of headaches - the nature of the sync bug is that once you've had a game where it happens it is very unlikely you can recover from a MP save game. If you load the MP save game and continue to play you will crash again. You will then load a more recent save game and crash again. The crashes will come more and more frequently. If you see this behavior just start over as its very probably that its the sync bug and the crash is nothing to do with your machines, network, or drivers. If you don't see this behavior, its likely a driver problem or you are running out of memory or you are running a bad mod (at least based on the data we've collected through tech support).

As soon as 1.04 is out I am going to make a post looking for volunteers. I have a special 1.04 build that will track the synchronization info we need to track it down. Since we can't recreate it we need to have a few players who it happens to regularly to play 1.04 with this build and then send us their logs when it goes out of sync.

P.S Minidump is the generic term for a general crash - it could be anything and is not caused by any specific problem. We can decode the minidump to get useful information on the true nature of the crash.

technical
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Reply #151 from Sins Forums Top
Annatar, I have downloaded 1.05 and played online for the first time. CRASH! I don't know where to get the data for Stardock to asset. But I feel bad for the people I have been playing with. What could it be on my computer. My virus program is Avast. There are so many post to help, knowing where to start look is the best one. Thanks for reading.Jae


If you get a minidump, the error message shows where it's saved. Zip it up and email it to [email protected] for them to look at. They might ask you for more info if they need it.

But as Monk mentioned, this thread was created specific to the de-sync bug which has indeed been fixed. The only other info we have (albeit a bit old) is there is one more cause of crashes on the IC side, and it's some kind of pathfinding bug which should be fixed in 1.1. Everything else, as far as we know from what IC said previously, is user-side.
Reply #152 from Sins Forums Top
Hi, I've been playing MP games on v1.05 and I'm still experiencing a de-sync with my opponents. It has happened time after time and is quite annoing, what info could I send to help. We use a mod btw.
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #153 from Sins Forums Top
How about without the MOD enabled? It is quite possible that the MOD is at fault with your de-sync issues. Since the devs can't be responsible for user-made content stop using the MOD if it's the cause.
Reply #154 from Sins Forums Top
That is what the group of us think, so we'll try later tonight hopefully without the mod and see if it still happens. Is the minidump thing associated with the sync-error, because we've gotten that aswell.
Reply #155 from Sins Forums Top

"mini-dump" is a generic term for a crash such as "illegal operation" for MS products.

mini-dumps/crashes happen for any number of reasons such as driver issues, hardware issues etc. The de-sync bug was fixed for an (un-modded) game in a previous patch.

I personally have never received a mini-dump of any kind and I've tested the game on many different types/configs of hardware and OS'es. I wish I could help you more, but at this point I would again suggest running the game without said MOD enabled.


the Monk
Reply #156 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah I haven't been the only person to crash, who plays this mod so I'm going to play a game tonight with it off and see how things go.
Reply #157 from Sins Forums Top
Well we played a game with the mod turned off and we got de-synced and then a player crashed. We played with some lag, would that have influenced this? I love the game but have yet to completed a game.
Reply #158 from Sins Forums Top

Once again,

Since SINS is entirely P2P and the ENTIRE game sim is being run on each and every persons's system (the HOST doesn't "host" anything, just SYNCS all the games together) it is entirely possible that someone else's CPU or connection lagged everyone out to the point of desync.

the Monk
Reply #159 from Sins Forums Top
Seems that if we don't play with a bunch of AI the game stays together, I think some people who we were playing with just couldn't support the 5 or so computers that were in the game causing the game to lag to the point of total de-sync. Why is there no type of lag grace system to prevent such things from happening, or is there but it doesn't make itself apparent. Anywho, I think we've managed to troubleshoot this process, thank you for your help and I hope I won't need to post in the technical forums again.
Reply #160 from Sins Forums Top


You're welcome. Yes I would definately think that AI having to be crunched on some "lesser" hardware could have created the scenario you were experiencing.
Reply #162 from Sins Forums Top
I have info from my mini-dump that I would like to give do i PM it to someone or post it here.


The only support e-mail I know is "[email protected]" but I think you'd want to send the mini-dumps to IronClad not stardock. Try PM'ing one of the IC guys you see posting on these forums.

Sorry, I whish I could be of more help...

Reply #164 from Sins Forums Top
Hi, this is my first email in this forum, and I'd like to say that I love Sins, and that I appreciate the efforts from technical support.

I am having a problem with online playing (Ironclad). I have started playing Ironclad for a few days now, and have joined about 5 or 6 games and played well for one, two or three hours.

However, in all cases, the games were disconnected, and all players dumped out. As such, I have not been able to finish any game thus far, and this is a bit frustrating, despite the enjoyment. (This is July 2008, and I wonder if the problem is getting worse or better...)

I'd be very grateful if anyone has a solution, a patch or a suggestion for preventing online disconnection.

Thank you,

Kosmo Khan

Reply #165 from Sins Forums Top
However, in all cases, the games were disconnected, and all players dumped out.


By this, do you mean the connection window popped up with everyone "Migrating"?

If so, that means the host left and the game is trying to find a replacement host - the mileage on this varies. Since Sins is P2P it requires those with routers to tweak them correctly to allow hosting, so for most people migrating never gets anywhere.

There isn't a whole lot anyone can do about this, it's neither a crash nor bug. Patch 1.1 will introduce a new optional net code that will tunnel past router settings so people wouldn't have to mess with it, so hopefully that will allow for more people being able to host, and more successful migrations.
Reply #166 from Sins Forums Top
Thanks Annatar11,

Indeed, in most times I saw the "migrating" signal before going off. Though, in other cases, I just got the tiny line "disconnected" on screen.

I have already installed the patch 1.05.

Is there anything I can do to grab the game while it is migrating? Or, any other measures to help stopping disconnection?

Any additional thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks again,

Kosmo Khan
Reply #167 from Sins Forums Top
My brother and I tried to play multiplayer while both have patch 1.05 installed the game still desynchs after a while. Message still seem to work but further for both of us the other seems to do nothing.
Were currently trying to reinstall the game but I wonder if it will work.
Reply #168 from Sins Forums Top

FireFrenzy,

If you read replies #158 and #159 please try with NO MODS enabled and LESS AI.

thanks,

the Monk
Reply #169 from Sins Forums Top
Ya know, just a long shot but could it have anything to do with the auto-save? The mini-dump that I got was sent to temporary files, and if I am not mistaken, would that be where Auto-save goes as well? I'm personally not computer literate when it comes to that sort of stuff... but, figured maybe it would be helpeful. :x
Reply #170 from Sins Forums Top
I have v1.05, run no mods and have had myself or all other players crash in 5 out of six games. I have a high end system with cable ISP on west coast USA. My drivers are up to date, I am running nothing in the background and my system is clean. All of the games that crashed where 2v2 with no AI. The one game that didnt crash was a 1v1.
Reply #171 from Sins Forums Top
I apologize for the MP dumps. I've addressed this multiple times in other threads but they've been buried so it isn't because we are ignoring it or trying to hide it - its just impossible to comment on it everytime it reappears in a new thread. Tech support has also been in email contact with a variety of people (including some in this thread).
The MP bug is 1 of 2 major bugs we are aware of and its a sync bug. Statistically, it is very rare which is why it is so difficult for us to track down (we have yet to see it ourselves but we have something going out soon that will help us find it from those who do get it). Also, any multiplayer fixes are scheduled to go out in 1.1 not 1.04. They are in seperate code paths and completely seperate systems being worked on by completely seperate people. This isn't a matter of just throwing the fix into 1.04 and 1.04 development is not slowing down 1.1's development so don't feel we are wasting time on 1.04 (balance + misc) when the *real* bug is in 1.1 (multiplayer).
Now, to save you all a lot of headaches - the nature of the sync bug is that once you've had a game where it happens it is very unlikely you can recover from a MP save game. If you load the MP save game and continue to play you will crash again. You will then load a more recent save game and crash again. The crashes will come more and more frequently. If you see this behavior just start over as its very probably that its the sync bug and the crash is nothing to do with your machines, network, or drivers. If you don't see this behavior, its likely a driver problem or you are running out of memory or you are running a bad mod (at least based on the data we've collected through tech support).

As soon as 1.04 is out I am going to make a post looking for volunteers. I have a special 1.04 build that will track the synchronization info we need to track it down. Since we can't recreate it we need to have a few players who it happens to regularly to play 1.04 with this build and then send us their logs when it goes out of sync.
P.S Minidump is the generic term for a general crash - it could be anything and is not caused by any specific problem. We can decode the minidump to get useful information on the true nature of the crash.


Apology NOT accepted.

The patch is up to 1.05 and 1.1b and the problem still persists. FIVE PATCHES and it's still buggy as ever. Don't lie and say it's statistically rare. Me and my bro are using different system and we BOTH get minidump and syncing bugs. I'm aware that the minidump is the result of a general error, but the fact that we get so many minidumps indicate that this game has more bugs than starship troopers series.

If you're interested...

Me:
T2400
x1600
3GB
laptop

him:
Q6600
We've tried 4870, GTX260, 8600GT
4GB


BOTH systems get minidumps and syncing problems, regardless of who hosts.

PS: We use no mods, 1.05, all drivers and bios updated.
Reply #172 from Sins Forums Top
I've installed the 1.05 patch, the fixed exe from thread comment #49 and I've updated the graphic accleration driver for my nvidia geforce 7900 GS.
but i still get the out of sync bug. I only play with one computer played opponent on a big map.
Is the snyc bug already fixed? Is there anything left I can do? Perhaps I missed something because my english is not that good.
Reply #173 from Sins Forums Top
Once again,Since SINS is entirely P2P and the ENTIRE game sim is being run on each and every persons's system (the HOST doesn't "host" anything, just SYNCS all the games together) it is entirely possible that someone else's CPU or connection lagged everyone out to the point of desync.the Monk


If there's anything more buggy than Sins of a solar empire, it's the_monk's brain. He just gets minidumps every time his neuron tries to fire.

He can't seem to get his facts straight, nor can he realize that a turd could beat him at an IQ exam.

Please, if you're going read his posts, you might as well wallow in mercury, at least they'll drop your IQ at a slower rate than the_monk.


PS: the CPU frequency and connection speed has NOTHING to do with the errors. I've had long, drawn out games that work without minidump and desyncing (extremely rare) when my bro is using a Q6600 and me a T2400. We also play on a 1 gigabit LAN connection, the fact that it still desyncs frequently demonstrates it's not the connection problem.
Reply #174 from Sins Forums Top
darkcurrent,

You have no idea.

Sins only uses one core after loading textures, so CPU power has a lot to do with it. I'm coming up with the T2400 being 1.83GHz, and the Q6600 being 2.4GHz. And as the_Monk noted:

Since SINS is entirely P2P and the ENTIRE game sim is being run on each and every persons's system (the HOST doesn't "host" anything, just SYNCS all the games together) it is entirely possible that someone else's CPU or connection lagged everyone out to the point of desync.
If you read replies #158 and #159 please try with NO MODS enabled and LESS AI.
Reply #175 from Sins Forums Top
I've installed the 1.05 patch, the fixed exe from thread comment #49 and I've updated the graphic accleration driver for my nvidia geforce 7900 GS.but i still get the out of sync bug. I only play with one computer played opponent on a big map. Is the snyc bug already fixed? Is there anything left I can do? Perhaps I missed something because my english is not that good.


I don't think you're experiencing a desync. The desync bug that this thread is about is specifically about LAN/Multiplayer. You can't desync if you're playing a single player game against an AI.

If you're getting minidumps, send them to [email protected] and they can help you figure out what's causing them and if there's anything you can do.

@darkcurrent:

If you want to be banned, by all means, keep insulting in every thread you can.