Blair Fraser Blair Fraser

Multiplayer Crashes

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Multiplayer Crashes

from Sins Forums

I apologize for the MP dumps. I've addressed this multiple times in other threads but they've been buried so it isn't because we are ignoring it or trying to hide it - its just impossible to comment on it everytime it reappears in a new thread. Tech support has also been in email contact with a variety of people (including some in this thread).

The MP bug is 1 of 2 major bugs we are aware of and its a sync bug. Statistically, it is very rare which is why it is so difficult for us to track down (we have yet to see it ourselves but we have something going out soon that will help us find it from those who do get it). Also, any multiplayer fixes are scheduled to go out in 1.1 not 1.04. They are in seperate code paths and completely seperate systems being worked on by completely seperate people. This isn't a matter of just throwing the fix into 1.04 and 1.04 development is not slowing down 1.1's development so don't feel we are wasting time on 1.04 (balance + misc) when the *real* bug is in 1.1 (multiplayer).

Now, to save you all a lot of headaches - the nature of the sync bug is that once you've had a game where it happens it is very unlikely you can recover from a MP save game. If you load the MP save game and continue to play you will crash again. You will then load a more recent save game and crash again. The crashes will come more and more frequently. If you see this behavior just start over as its very probably that its the sync bug and the crash is nothing to do with your machines, network, or drivers. If you don't see this behavior, its likely a driver problem or you are running out of memory or you are running a bad mod (at least based on the data we've collected through tech support).

As soon as 1.04 is out I am going to make a post looking for volunteers. I have a special 1.04 build that will track the synchronization info we need to track it down. Since we can't recreate it we need to have a few players who it happens to regularly to play 1.04 with this build and then send us their logs when it goes out of sync.

P.S Minidump is the generic term for a general crash - it could be anything and is not caused by any specific problem. We can decode the minidump to get useful information on the true nature of the crash.

technical
123,578 views 205 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
Well since I can't even join a game because I get a Disconnected from server message every time I'm not sure if I even would see the other MP problems :).
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
Just to add to the discussion, my friends and I played a 6 FFA (3 AI's) on Friday night/Saturday morning with the test build. I mini dumped about 2 hours into the game, but I fear it was not the de-synch issue as the test build did not do what Blair said it would (no red text, no synch files). We were able to resume the game from a save point and continued for about another 2 hours before it crashed again (again with no synch files).

The game came to a screeching halt about 5 minutes prior to the last crash. One of my friends was playing Vasari and had maxed out his fleet cap (and had Returning Armada going). As soon as I crashed and a portion of his fleet died off the game resumed a relatively normal pace.

It's also worth mentioning that we had large fleet size enabled.

All mini-dumps, dxdiags and what not were sent off to IC.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
Well since I can't even join a game because I get a Disconnected from server message every time I'm not sure if I even would see the other MP problems .


Make sure you have port 6112 open on you router, and that the IP address is configured correctly with each open port IE 192.168.1.101, or 192.168.1.102 etc, figure out what IP your computer is on.
Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
Thats all good and fine. But this is the only game I have come across where I have to configure a Port and my router to let me play online.. I hope they fix this problem
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
Thats all good and fine. But this is the only game I have come across where I have to configure a Port and my router to let me play online.. I hope they fix this problem


You dont really have to configure anything...just allow port 6112 in the router or firewall...

I just allowed port 6112 as an exception in my firewall and the router was fine as default...hooks up fine;)
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
So please help us help you, rather than just posting about how bad it is.
With all due respect, I paid money for a working product, not for the privilege of being your free QA team.

I'm sorry to be saying this, but if you got to the point where you have a frequent crash bug in an already released app and you need to release a special test build just to try and pinpoint where it is then something in your development process is very wrong.

If I was in your position I wouldn't be telling off my customers for blowing off steam at this point. Rather I'd be putting someone with client facing skills in this forum to apologize a lot, and make every effort to eliminate this bug ASAP.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
Frustrations are warranted and legitimate. I'm right there with everyone, but IC has finally given the problem (perceived and legitimate) some enhanced visibility by pinning a post regarding said issue so it doesn't get buried.

Before you start flaming away, it might help to know that I have a closed case with StarDock requesting a refund for Sins (electronic version). I allowed the case to be closed without returning the software because of the simple fact this thread (and the test build) was established. I share that solely to illustrate how frustrated I've been.

It doesn't matter how we got here, but IC is VISIBLY trying to remedy the situation. I don't believe it's ever been 'off their radar', but information dissemination has been spotty (buried in posts).


Let's try to keep the posts relevant to mini-dump issues in multi-player. That way this post serves its function. There are many causes that end in a mini-dump, some are inherent to the software while others are local pc issues (drivers come to mind).
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
Yes, let's please keep it in topic, at least. There are better ways and more appropriate places to vent frustration than this thread. ;)
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
I'm going to point this out.

My friends and I had the problem many many times, and the instant we all enabled the crash log through the user setting file it stopped.

Haven't had it since.

After testing, we found it to fix the error. Why it works, I have no idea. When even one person doesn't have that option enabled it crashes. It's been days now without any type of problem, and it used to happen every single game.

As a side note, we are all running sins+, a very popular mod. No problems.
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
New Info: Please make sure you delete you user.setting file before starting the de-sync testing process. This only needs to be done the first time.
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
Sounds interesting...can you give me the details on how to do that? Is it a setting in user.settings?

Thanks!
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
you can find the user.settings here

Vista:
C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\setting\

XP:
C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\setting\
Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top
I think this is the setting referred to by Ubel Feuer. Is that correct Ubel Feuer?

I have not tested this yet.

Open the file "User.Settings" in notepad and scroll to the bottom.

Change: LogOutput FALSE
To: LogOutput TRUE
Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top
That's correct. After we all changed it to TRUE, we have yet to have a problem.


Well, I tried this last night with some friends on a LAN game. It seems to actually have helped. We were finally able to complete a 3 vs. 3 multiplayer game. First time ever. Hopefully this will continue to hold up. Other recent changes have included the NVIDIA Beta drivers and the new SoaSE patch (which is its own little headache, and in keeping with the slew of problems I've had with Sins thus far. The game doesn't patch through Stardock Central on everyone's system and everyone has to upgrade via the same method - either download the patch from the website or use Stardock Central or the game thinks you don't have the same version to play). I still had game crashes after all of those things...changing the Log value to TRUE might really have made the difference.

Thanks!
Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top
If I could chime in something on this, I've found two things regarding the crash.

One, is when one of the computers runs out of memory. This happened to my wife when we were playing, as her computer is old. Both our computers would minidump however. I then grabbed another one of my computers (newer) and installed sins on it and loaded the same save file. There were no mini dump issues. This is likely connected to the sync problem as my wife's computer most likely went out of sync after it ran out of memory.

The other thing I've noticed is that in some games, the starting crystal appears to be going UP in price very rapidly from the get go. It starts at about 500 and then appears to shoot straight up to 550 - 600. I was on vent a few times when this happened complaining about the crystal price when another guy said it was only 350 for him. As soon as he bought he crystal, BAM - minidump. Most of the minidumps I've seen seemed to be cause by a black market desync.

Hope this can be of some use to you guys.
Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top
Black market desync would make sense for why people are getting way more of them in 1.03/1.04.
Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top
Actually, I didn't really mind it. It happened about 4 hours in and just in the nick of time (I was getting my but kicked...)

It happened at the end of my last stand, if that helps.
Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top
This seems to happen on a regular basis to me, so I have a hard time believing it's "statistically very rare." My system is brand new, and composed entirely of parts that were chosen specifically because they are very popular, proven-reliablity name-brand high-end pieces (all have 1000+ positive newegg.com customer reviews). If this happens to me, it must happen to nearly everyone.

How's progress? Even if this problem were rare, which it is not, there must have been quite a few minidump reports sent in for analysis by now.....
Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top

As requested here is an update: We haven't gotten very far. Unfortunately, no sync logs have been sent in yet and we are still having trouble making it happen internally.  :SNIFF!:  :SNIFF!: 

P.S The only way you know its a sync bug for sure is if you are running our special exe and the red letters come up and you've followed the instructions (including the update that you need to delete your user.settings file).

Reply #46 from Sins Forums Top
Me and my friends are having the exact same problem. I'll be sure to send them this topic and get them to use this .exe instead.

I also have a save game of 1.04 where after about 10 seconds in the game after the load it will always crash. I'm not sure if this is of any use to you guys or if you even want the save files.

I also did some testing as one player ended up staying in the game and saving the game. I got him to send his save files to us so we could try to go on from there. This did sorta work however since we were replaced by bots due to the crash. Now one human and AI was controlling the armies, but we did get passed the instant crash point by loading his save game.

I also suppose the latter is a bug or something that can occur when using someone else's save game. As using a save game from someone else while all players where in game during the saving worked flawless.
Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top
The best is to have a sync log from game start. Save games may or may not help, because the actual desync may have occurred before the save, and then IC won't be able to figure out why, if the save is after the fact ;)
Reply #48 from Sins Forums Top
Hmm. I don't really have any friends who play this game (I like to pretend I'm not a computer nerd when I'm out in public), so I usually just go online and join random games. Since this special version is not compatible with the standard 1.04, and since even now it takes me 10-15 minutes to find a game to join, I'm assuming that if I got the new version I would practically never get into games..

Maybe the best way to get this special version into use would be to release it along with a very minor update (whatever else is ready to be released, however little) that everyone has to get. That way joining games would be easier, and it would be really easy for people like me to determine when to send in a log.
Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top

Ok, despite my update yesterday saying there was no progress we did make some progress yesterday after my posting and the sync bug may in fact now be fixed. I need as many people as possible to test the new exe linked below to see if it resolves their sync problems. If all goes well, we'll release it as a hotfix for everyone to use. Note: You will only be able to play against people who are also using this build.

www.ironcladgames.com/sins/SinsSyncFix.zip