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Racial Balance as of Beta 6A

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Racial Balance as of Beta 6A

Who do you think is strong and who do you think is weak?

from GalCiv2 Forums

In a post on the main page, Brad said that a focus of the remaining development will be balancing and that he will be looking to player feedback on that issue.  I think it may be helpful if we had a central thread devoted to racial balance issues.  In particular, I think that balance is best tested on higher difficulty levels, though any feedback is sure to be helpful.  If a number of players could take the time to answer the following questions, I hope that it could be a useful resource.  If there is a clear consensus on any given issue, particularly among the more experienced players, then that might be of particular interest to the developers.

Question 1:  In the games that you have played in Beta 6A (or other recent builds), are there any races that seemed comparatively too strong when you used them?  If so, which race(s) and what suggestions do you have for balancing them?

Question 2:  In the games that you have played in Beta6A (or other recent builds), are there races that seemed comparatively too weak when you used them?  If so, which race(s) and what suggestions do you have for balancing them?

Question 3:  In the games that you have played in Beta 6A (or other recent builds), are ther any races that seemed too strong or too weak when played by the AI?  If so, which ones, and what would you recommend to balance them?

Question 4:  Which races seem "just right" to you?

 

I'll fill out my own questionaire first. :)

Question 1:  None of the races have seemed so strong as to be imbalanced that I have played.  I have tried the Drath, Arceans, Krynn, Korx, Thalans and Terrans, and comment on how the others play.

Question 2:  The Thalans are basically crippled.  Their production and research facilities are brutally expensive in both upkeep and research points.  At the end of their production tech trees, these facilities are inferior to their equivilents in the standard tech tree.  The technologies they get for the Xeno Ethics line are vastly inferior to the advantages offered by concepts of malice in the standard tech tree (+100 econ for the Mind Control Center and +50% military production for the Artificial Slave Center).  They desperately need tech trading, but they have a harsh starting diplomatic penalty.  They are slow to develop, and are dependent on getting a +700 bonus square for the hyperion matrix to have a chance.  Even then they have major economic problems.  On top of it, their troops are very weak.  They have some really fun late game techs, but it takes a succession of small to moderate miracles to get there in decent shape on Suicidal.

As to how to fix this, I think that giving the Thalans back there +25 starting econ and +10 miniaturization bonuses would be resonable, as would cutting the diplomatic penalty to -15.  There are a lot of other options of course.  I think it's pretty clear they need a boost. 

To a lesser degree, I think the Krynn are weaker now than they were in DA.  Their new buildings have very high upkeep, and they've lost their econ and defense bonuses.  They are still competitive, but they are no longer top tier.  I think that the upkeep for their unique buildings should be cut significantly and that they should get their 50% defense bonus back.  That defense bonus really made them a unique race to play, since they could have an entirely different military strategy.  Personally, I miss that.

Question 3:  None of the races seems too strong when handled by the AI, though the Torians are always strong.  The Thalans and the Altarians seem consistently weak. 

Question 4:  I absolutely love the Drath, Iconians, Terrans, Korx and Arceans.  Based on significantly less experience the Torians and Korath look quite good also.

If anyone has opinions on any of these 4 (or any related) questions, please share! :)

 

83,033 views 30 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Of course the Thalans are going to be relatively strong when everyone only has 3 or 4 planets, because Thala with all their Galactic Achievements is a very strong planet.


Yes, which is exactly why I pointed out just that in my post.
Reply #27 from Stardock Forums Top
Yes, which is exactly why I pointed out just that in my post.
My point was that you've created a scenario that maximizes the Thalans' strengths, minimizes their weaknesses, and is not at all representative of the way most people play. Performing well when everything is set up in their favour, does not mean they aren't crippled in a general sense.

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Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
My biggest problem with this beta is the Korath tech tree. Their entire line of beam weapon techs is completely broken, with the only fully upgradeable tech that actually nets a gun being the lasers. Particle beams is only one tech, ion beams is three (but with no actual ion beams thrown in there) disruptors is one and doom rays is, of course one. My problem is that I am never able to make the weapons cheaper or smaller, and I never get any high level weapons that do not cost 150. (that fit reasonably on a ship or do reasonable damage. ALso, why do the Korath not ever expand on their slaveling imagination center? why does it just go to traditional research centers - but stopping at academies? Why is pain amplification the only tech that actually seems in character for research? IT seems like SD totally forgot about the Korath, or that the just don't like them...

Dark influence owns, though.

When I look at the drengin tech tree, they have the exact same problems, except they actually have in-character research lines. I honestly feel like, although the AI may be incredible, the tech trees are still broken.
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
My point was that you've created a scenario that maximizes the Thalans' strengths, minimizes their weaknesses, and is not at all representative of the way most people play. Performing well when everything is set up in their favour, does not mean they aren't crippled in a general sense.


Perhaps so, but then again I didn't say they were not "crippled." I simply pointed out that in my games using my settings they have performed quite well. Every race has strengths and weaknesses. Let me add that your argument goes both ways. Stating that the Thalans are crippled because they don't work on settings that minimize their strenths and maximize their weaknesses does not show them to be "crippled" anymore than my statement shows them not to be. Of course, since I didn't say it did show such a thing makes this entire debate purely academic.
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
1: Homo Sapiens pride. Humans have always been one of the best races, and TA tech trees are no exception.

2: Thalans were VERY slow from the get-go for me. When I got the later techs researched, they chugged along nicely, but I was the bottom race for the first 3/4s of the game until I got Doom Ray. Also, the Arceans lacking engine techs is absolutely awful. Plus, for some reason, I've never survived the initial money crunch with them.

3: I don't think I've played a game yet in which either the Torians or Krynn (sometimes Drengin) are utterly out-of-control powerful.

4. I use a custom race that uses the Yor tech tree but has initial starting bonuses more akin to the ones that are used by the Terran Alliance. That with some economic bonuses makes for a very nicely balanced race, especially with the Efficiency centers complimenting my money planets (and an economic capital on my homeworld).