Accumulated Build Orders, Strategies, And Associated Replays

Tec Build (additional build, + heavy modifications)

Build 1:
Standard 1v1 (non rush) build on small-medium map:
1. Buy 2 units of crystal
2. Upgrade home planet
3. 1 Worker on Cap ship, 1 worker on crystal
4. Build 2 scout frigates, scout
5. Start Mazra or Kol (either works fine) when cap ship fac finishes
6. Start 2 metal extractors
7. Build colony ship
8. Take nearby asteroid (all maps have 1 nearby asteroid)
9. While taking asteroid, scuttle capital ship factory
10. Build 1 military lab
11. Finish the asteroid, colonize it, upgrade so you don't bleed cash
12. Mine all asteroids, and add 2nd military lab
13. Research lrms, start producing
14. Asteroid #2 should be cleared and ready for taking (there's almost always a second asteroid, if not, find a lightly defended terran or desert)
15. Take asteroid 2, build it up as before
16. You should be popped out now on LRMs, start research on flaks.
17. Your scouts should see opponent enemy composition. You have 3 colonies, you can decide whether to take more or contest neutral extractors (I usually do neutrals)
18. Start research on popultion upgrade
19. Whichever colony is CLOSEST to opponent, should build at least 2 frigates factories
20. Depending on opponent unit composition, start production on Flaks and LRMs
21. Your capital should be 4 or 5 now, continue pressuring
22. Win or lose, depends on you

Build 2:
Hardcore rush 1v1, small map
1. Buy 2 units of crystal
2. Upgrade home planet
3. 1 Worker on Cap ship, 1 worker on crystal
4. Build 2 scout frigates, scout
5. Start Sova when cap ship fac finishes
6. Start 2 metal extractors
7. Build 3 light frigates, then a colony ship
8. Send Sova to enemy main base with embargo
9. Take nearby asteroid with light frigates (all maps have 1 nearby asteroid)
10. While taking asteroid, scuttle capital ship factory
11. Continue harassing with Sova (jump in, embargo, jump to nearby star, recharge mana, jump in, etc.) Note Embargo only stays in effect while Sova is in system.
12. Get asteroid operational, while building the 2 military labs. Send the light frigates to your Sova to confuse opponent
13. Start LRM production immediately, queue to your Sova
14. Research pop upgrade, take neutral extractors with colony ship, and continue LRM production
15. Since they have almost no income (no trade income early, almost all income comes from home planet which has no income due to embargo) your mass LRMs should overrun him and end the game

Build 3:
Economy build, larger 1v1, medium large 2v2
1. Buy 2 units of crystal
2. Upgrade home planet
3. 1 Worker on Cap ship, 1 worker on crystal
4. Build 2 scout frigates, scout
5. Start Mazra or Kol (either works fine) when cap ship fac finishes
6. Start 2 metal extractors
7. Build colony ship
8. Take nearby asteroid (all maps have 1 nearby asteroid)
9. While taking asteroid, scuttle capital ship factory
10. Build 1 Civil lab at main
11. Finish the asteroid, colonize it, upgrade so you don't bleed cash
12. Mine all asteroids, and add 2nd civil lab
13. Start research on trade, and continue taking any planet within reach
14. Start placing trade ports as income allows, research ice or volcano depending on allegiance to home and mineral quality.
15. Deserts are a priority, you can support a ton of trade ports per desert planet
16. You're doing this with little to no units, because you expect the opponent can't get to you in time. If they can, you shouldn't be doing this build anyway.
17. With spare slots (or upgrade as you will), add 2 military, start LRM production
18. Tech up, start mixed LRM/Flak production
19. Add static D (Gauss) at outlying colonies, continue building trade ports at inner colonies
20. Once an economic advantage is secured, mass an unholy army of LRM/Flak and charge.

Build 4:
Anti Advent
1. Buy 2 units of crystal
2. Upgrade home planet
3. 1 Worker on Cap ship, 1 worker on crystal
4. Build 2 scout frigates, scout
5. Start Kol when cap ship fac finishes
6. Start 2 metal extractors
7. Build colony ship
8. Take nearby asteroid (all maps have 1 nearby asteroid)
9. While taking asteroid, scuttle capital ship factory
10. Build 1 military labs at main
11. Finish the asteroid, colonize it, upgrade so you don't bleed cash
12. Mine all asteroids, and add 2nd military lab
13. Let the advent scout your two military labs (so he thinks you're going LRM, and in fact, you CAN go lrm if you so choose, it depends on his unit composition)
14. Pump light frigates, watching his unit composition. If he has disciples, add a few (5-6) lrms to crush them. Continue making light frigates after
15. Once you have enough lrms to beat down his disciples, continue adding only light frigates, and research flaks
16. Do not let Advent tech. Many of the more clueless posters keep saying how great Advent is with level 6 cap ships. He'll be lucky to have a level 2, forget about level 6.
17. If the advent is good, he has been massing defense vessels. If he doesn't mass defense vessels, just kill him with LRMs. Note, NONE of his units do well vs light frigates. Disciples do "ok," but he has NO counter (illuminators do NOT get the bonus damage)
18. Trap the Advent in his asteroid + terran. At this point, since none of his ships do anything to yours, he's probably building static d, awaiting your push
19. You can now either build 2 civil and go trade + colonize while holding him back, or add 3 military and go kodiaks and kill. It's map dependent
20. Finally, make sure he doesn't level his caps. Every time he leaves his base, gank him with your fleet. He can't kill them with his units (poor advent)

General micro tips:
Flak/defense/sentinel frigates do poor dps, but have incredibly high hp for frigates. Here are micro tips:

Target weak units first. LRM on light frigate, etc.

Afterwards, if opponent is massing flak type units, use existing lrms to reduce their capital ship hp, while you can produce flak type units of your own. The multiple angled shots from flaks are actually a BAD thing. It REDUCES flak dps since they can't use all their guns at once. Their effective dps is horrible, but since LRMs don't really kill them, it becomes some horrible attrition fest. Ignore that, and kill their big ships.

Use Mazra's aoe abilities, or Kol's gauss, to quickly destroy flaks (very quickly). Flaks cannot damage capital ships. Not even 10-20, will do significant damage (they barely break your shield regen) --> it ends up being something like 1 dps per flak after damage reduction and shield mitigation

If you need, the heavy cruisers pack a good punch. With Tec, you are strong at two points. Early game, LRMs are highly efficient killers. Mid game, your economy is much stronger if you went build #3. Stay with your strengths.

1 more note, Akkon appears to be bugged. The aura adds no dps to the units (although increases range), making it worthless. I'd suggest a buff is needed.

I don't have a lot of replays with Tech, but my partners are usually Tech for my Vasari.

If anyone wants to submit some good replays, I will edit them in here at a later date.

Here's what I have:

http://rapidshare.com/files/98865560/AutoRecord-03092020.zip.html

A very experimental game on my part. It was here I conceived of my new build, but with the wrong cap ship, and with the wrong initial units, and the wrong initial build, and the worst start imaginable etc. etc. Still won though!

Watch my tec ally in this game:

http://rapidshare.com/files/97402917/2v2_Darkfleet_Inno.record.html

And in this one:

http://rapidshare.com/files/98860433/AutoRecord-03112122.record.html

Props to Cykur and Jinx.

I'm basically retooling my Advent builds.

Here's the new set of builds.

Build 1:
Standard 1v1 (non rush) build on small-medium map:
1. Buy 2 units of crystal
2. Upgrade home planet
3. 1 Worker on Cap ship, 1 worker on crystal
4. Build 2 seekers, scout
5. Start Mothership (regen/malice/malice/regen/malice/regen as skills) when cap ship fac finishes
6. Start 2 metal extractors
7. Build colony ship
8. Take nearby asteroid (all maps have 1 nearby asteroid)
9. While taking asteroid, scuttle capital ship factory
10. Build 2 military lab
11. Finish the asteroid, colonize it, upgrade so you don't bleed cash
12. Mine all asteroids, and add 2nd military lab
13. SCOUT THEIR HOME PLANET. If they made light frigates, build disciples (research defense vessels in meantime). KEEP SCOUT ON THEIR HOME PLANET. Once LRM production starts (and it will) start defense vessel production.
14. Asteroid #2 should be cleared and ready for taking (there's almost always a second asteroid, if not, find a lightly defended terran or desert)
15. Take asteroid 2, build it up as before
16. Continue spamming defense vessels
17. You have 3 colonies, you can decide whether to take more or contest neutral extractors (I usually do neutrals)
18. Add additional military lab, start research to Guardians
19. Whichever colony is CLOSEST to opponent, should build at least 2 frigates factories
20. Add illuminators and Crusaders (if you can)
21. Your capital should be 4 or 5 now, continue pressuring
22. Add a second capital if you need to, otherwise attempt to beat back their fleets with Malice.

I personally avoid drone carriers (I think they suck), but I've seen them used. If you use drone carriers, don't use defense vessels and vice versa (mainly due to the expensive research costs, it'll end up killing your unit count --> and then killing you)

Build 2:
Rush 1v1, small map
1. Buy 2 units of crystal
2. Upgrade home planet
3. 1 Worker on Cap ship, 1 worker on crystal
4. Build 2 seekers, scout
5. Start Radiance when cap ship fac finishes
6. Start 2 metal extractors
7. Build 4 disciples, then a colony ship
8. Start taking nearby asteroid(s)
9. Scuttle Capital ship factory
10. Add 2 military factories, continue pumping disciples
11. When asteroids are cleared, pressure with disciples, aim for labs if possible. Make sure to scout for lrms (assailants)
12. Research drone carriers
13. Spam drone carriers and hope to wipe out his army
14. Continue production and take neutral extractors
15. Hope to kill them before they can counter your drone carriers with enough flaks. Micro fighter/bomber away from their flaks if possible.

Build 3:
Economy build, larger 1v1, medium large 2v2
1. Buy 2 units of crystal
2. Upgrade home planet
3. 1 Worker on Cap ship, 1 worker on crystal
4. Build 2 scout frigates, scout
5. Start Mothership (same skill build as before)
6. Start 2 metal extractors
7. Build colony ship
8. Take nearby asteroid (all maps have 1 nearby asteroid)
9. While taking asteroid, scuttle capital ship factory, pump some disciples (map dependent) for early game presence. Add disciples until first pop, but don't go over. Scout your opponent. If it looks like an LRM rush, you'll have to tier up and go defense vessels. Luckily the map is large, so either he'll have to clear the planets in between, or he'll have to take damage (and take a long time) getting to you. That gives you enough time for the civil labs.
10. Build 1 Civil lab at main
11. Finish the asteroid, colonize it, upgrade so you don't bleed cash
12. Mine all asteroids, and add 2nd and third civil lab
13. Start research on trade, and continue taking any planet within reach
14. Start placing trade ports as income allows, research ice or volcano depending on allegiance to home and mineral quality.
15. Deserts are a priority, you can support a ton of trade ports per desert planet
16. You're doing this with little to no units, because you expect the opponent can't get to you in time. If they can, you shouldn't be doing this build anyway.
17. With spare slots, tech to tier 2, and scout out their army composition. A safe build is to add defense vessels and static defense (Beam platforms). Drone carriers hiding in back are a viable defensive strategy as well
18. Tech to a second capital ship if you can afford it (Radiance is a good choice), add Guardians to fleet mix
19. Add illuminators + crusaders
20. Once you have crusader + guardian + defense, start your offensive. Keep everything in your shield bubble to increase shield mitigation. FF their weaker ships (or autoattack with illuminators). You have no easy way of killing capital ships, but your radiance manaburn can deal with their special abilities.

General micro tips:
Flak/defense/sentinel frigates do poor dps, but have incredibly high hp for frigates. Here are micro tips:

Target weak units first. Disciples on heavy armor, crusaders on LRM, illuminators on... nothing (CHANGE THAT DAMAGE TYPE ALREADY)

Malice is an important feature in larger fights, but is worthless in small encounters. Furthermore, the Mothership has horrible dps for a capital ship. Remember to keep it in back so it doesn't randomly die (it's the speed of the space whale). Manually cast all spells, otherwise you'll just waste them.

Note that defense vessels are by far the best flak type in the game. They should form the bulk of your army against LRM spammers, but note that they are worthless against anything else. Also, try to melee your defense vessels (fly them into the LRM formation for more guns firing).

As far as replays go, I'm not confident enough in my Advent to say that my build is the definitive way to go. As a result, I would appreciate it if Advent specialists posted some replays.

Vasari is my primary race (after I decided to learn it, immediately following my original post about game balance, oh so long ago).

As such, my builds are the most matured, and most efficient of my posts. I have never lost a 1v1 with Vasari (or any race), although I had one drawn out games that were left unfinished (draw).

You would think that I would have the most specific builds for Vasari. You would be mistaken. Vasari builds are more map dependent than any other, so instead of a flat build path as I've done in the past, I will go over the THEORY AND EXECUTION of the Vasari.

THEORY:
Vasari have excellent map control with Navigators. Against non-Vasari, you will take every neutral extractor. Against another Vasari, you will fight viciously over every neutral extractor. This is how they are played.

The following Vasari units are terrific (in order of use):
1. Assailant
2. Subverter
3. Enforcer

The following Vasari units are counter units:
1. Sentinel
2. Skirmisher (to counter sentinels)

The following capital ships are useful in ORDER of usefulness:
1. Devastator Battleship (Mana burn + attack speed)
2. Marauder Battlecruiser (Free fighter squad at start + nice spells)
3. Dreadnaught (phase missle swarm + assault specialization)
4-5: other two. Carrier sucks. Why? Repair hull is crap. You will repair the hull of the ONE ship they're focusing. Everything else doesn't benefit at all. Compared to restore shields, it's an order of magnitude worse.

Basic MICRO tips:

Why are assailants so good? Phase missiles pierce shield mitigation. With focus fire, you can easily increase dps by more than 60-70% once you fully upgrade the pierce attribute. With subverters, that dps increase is over 120%.

Micro assailants on weak units (light frigs) first for fast kills, then follow up on anything else you want. Often in assailant wars, both sides will focus the capital ship. This is a good strategy, but as it is with everything else, matchup dependent. Do NOT focus fire kol (phase missle shield), Radiance, or Marauder (since it can phase itself out). The NOTS are in order of importance. Basically, NEVER focus fire a kol unless you're sure you can kill it. It takes almost no damage from your missiles.

Do NOT focus fire flaks. If they flak, you stop production of assailants, use existing assailants to kill light frigs + caps + buildings (IN THAT ORDER), and counter flak with skirms. If they go carriers, you must go sentinels (obviously).

There is one more KEY to good Vasari play:
Holding off on upgrading your supply until you HAVE to. Often, I will upgrade my phase missiles to tier 4 before I pop up simply because my opponent isn't being aggressive. Assailants do not take long to build, especially if you build more than 1 frig fac (mid game, I have 3-4).

Finally, I will not be posting my famous RA rush here. The skill is imbalanced, do not use it as a crutch. Learn the game the right way.

EXECUTION:
The ALMOST ALWAYS techniques (EVERYTHING is map/strategy dependent):
Scuttle cap shipyard (why... not?)

Never start with skirmishers, they are overpriced and bad. Start with assailants, and watch your opponent's builds.

NEVER go trade ports (unless you have a damn good reason, probably cuz opponents are scrubs). Vasari trade port tech is tier 4, basically useless.

Start with devastator. As you improve in the game, move on to the other caps. The marauder is the hardest to use.

Here's a SAMPLE build order for 1v1/2v2 small map. Remember, it's only a SUGGESTION. It differs based on how much teching you can "get away" with before you upgrade pop as well as starting positions and neutral extractors. Race matchup also plays a huge role.

This would be a medium map 1v1:

1. Buy 2 units of crystal
2. Upgrade home planet
3. 1 Worker on Cap ship, 1 worker on crystal
4. Build 3-4 Navigators, scout and take neutrals
5. Start Kortul when cap ship fac finishes
6. Start 2 metal extractors
7. Build colony ship
8. Take nearby asteroid (all maps have 1 nearby asteroid)
9. While taking asteroid, scuttle capital ship factory
10. Build military lab
11. Finish the asteroid, colonize it, upgrade so you don't bleed cash
12. Mine all asteroids
13. Start assailant production (When assailants max your pop, and this doesn't take long, upgrade phase missiles twice, it's cheap and useful)
14. Asteroid #2 should be cleared and ready for taking (there's almost always a second asteroid, if not, find a lightly defended terran or desert)
15. Take asteroid 2, build it up as before
16. Now you have to make a choice. You can add 2 more military labs (maybe even FOUR more), and continue research at 0 upkeep, or you can pop up and move out with your fleet.
17. You have 3 colonies, you can decide whether to take more or contest neutral extractors (good opponents will fight you over neutrals at this stage)
18. Pop up, and take a colony somewhere near the opponent
19. Build 3-4 Frigate factories, keeping unit composition to counter their fleet. A level 6 kortul is also devastating with nanites.
20. Build subverters for shield mitigation decrease, enforcers to tank/dps if needed
21. Pressure with your mid game shield pierce army. Eventually your opponent will fold.

Here's a sample technology rush build. It's very risky, but the payoffs are enormous if you get it to work.

1. Buy 2 units of crystal
2. Upgrade home planet
3. 1 Worker on Cap ship, 1 worker on crystal
4. Build 3-4 Navigators, scout and take neutrals
5. Start Kortul when cap ship fac finishes
6. Start 2 metal extractors
7. Build colony ship
8. Take nearby asteroid (all maps have 1 nearby asteroid)
9. While taking asteroid, scuttle capital ship factory
10. Build military lab
11. Finish the asteroid, colonize it, upgrade so you don't bleed cash
12. Mine all asteroids
13. Start assailant production (When assailants max your pop, and this doesn't take long, upgrade phase missiles twice, it's cheap and useful)
14. Asteroid #2 should be cleared and ready for taking (there's almost always a second asteroid, if not, find a lightly defended terran or desert)
15. Take asteroid 2, build it up as before
16. Add 3 military labs, and try to keep scouts on their base. If it looks like they're going to rush, add a phase missile turret at main
17. You have 3 colonies, you can decide whether to take more or contest neutral extractors (good opponents will fight you over neutrals at this stage)
18. Research Enforcer tech
19. Start producing Enforcers
20. Research Enforcer healing
21. Research Subverter and the disabling jump

Assailants/LRMs/Illums/Defense/etc. etc. etc. completely fail to this build.

If they go carriers, go flak (you're tier 5, flak are tier 2, easy enough)

It's risky in that the build can obviously kill you. Scouting is quite important, as is neutral extractor control.

Replays:
Most of my replays are Vasari, so here we go

http://rapidshare.com/files/97134038/1v1_inno.record.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/97402917/2v2_Darkfleet_Inno.record.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/94660206/2v2_clan_match.record.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/94717505/AutoRecord-02250018.record.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/94717595/AutoRecord-02250034.record.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/98860433/AutoRecord-03112122.record.html

Strategy Discussion:

Hopefully, this will be updated as the game matures, and again, I would request that the mods allow me to edit ALL my initial posts in this thread, so that the information is in an easy to digest format instead of scattered over 3-5 pages of flamewars.

Game Balance:

A unit is balanced NOT if it's counterable, but if the counter is easily produced relative to the unit, and effectively counters.

As an example, LRMs may or may not be balanced since defense vessels counter them easily and efficiently, but LRMs still have quite a lot of stats per cost.

RA, is probably not balanced. The only counter to RA (a good RA), is fast pressure/rush. Such a build is very "hardcore," and if it fails, you're quite screwed. Consequently, I do not consider RA balanced.

Units that I consider more or less useless:

All siege frigates (wtf????????)
Vasari Overseer (.........)
Illuminator (NOT totally useless, but it's the cap ships that make the illuminator decent, not the unit itself, which is crap)
Skirmisher (it's soooo bad for its cost, please buff)
Anything else I forgot (some of the support cruisers maybe)
Akkan
Space Whale
Vasari Carrier

One more thing

Someone posted how great the Halycon was, and now all these newbs are doing Halycon first. Please stop. Please. Stop. It's not good. It's DECENT as a third cap ship just for its aura. That's it.

Units I consider to be "top tier"
LRM
Light Frigate
Kodiak
Kol
Defense vessel
Crusader
Guardian
Mothership
Radiance
Navigator
Asssailant
Enforcer
Subverter
Kortul
Marauder

Hopefully, as I think of new things to add, I'll update the thread.

Tactics Discussion:

When to micro

Focus fire is not optional, as other threads have pointed out. Please don't autoattack your units (unless you use multifiring units... defense vessels, illuminators, etc.)

There are 2 types of micro in Sins. There is micro to kill units, and micro to kill caps.

They are used for 2 different purposes.

If you micro on the units, and there is a stream of units from the enemy base, you may or may not drive him back from the field. On the flip side, every unit you kill is income lost for him.

If you micro his capital ship (if you kill it, the game's more or less over), he must retreat. Further, his cap will be heavily damaged, and unable to assault you in the near future.

Which one you do depends heavily on unit compositions.

For instance, if you have assailants with phase missile pierce, and he has defense vessels, you have no motivation to attack his defense vessels with your assailants. Instead, focus his capital and hope he runs away while you build a counter unit (Skirms or Enforcers).

On the flip side, if you're facing a Kol with light frigates, clearly you should be targeting the light frigates instead of the shielded Kol.

These examples are extreme, but the borderline cases are for you yourself to figure out.

Also, try to multitask. If your fleet is fighting, you still need to pump units to the field, and maybe even expand and build infrastructure.

Misc Discussion:

Saved for a later date.

Anything not clearly in the above posts should go here.

The enforcer rush needs 5 military labs. Also, if they are rushing you, a regen bay is probably better than a missile battery?

Good of you to put all this out there for the community!

I assume it's alright to post now. Mostly Advent stuff follows.

I commented on this before in some other thread, but anyways. To make Illus suck a bit less, they can be microed to better effect by either exploiting slow turn rate of LRM/Assas (play them like Flaks) or moving them to a good spot before FF'ing.

I didn't see you mention Repulsion. It's a fantastic ability to counter heavy cruiser spam, get away from trouble or prevent the enemy from escaping (park them between gravwell edge and runners.) Good Repulsion micro is one of the key elements of playing Advent IMO.

If you're going to tech to tradeports, it's definitely worth it to put down a Culture station or two in a team game on medium maps. +10% credits, metal and crystal on every planet touched by culture for both you AND ally is pretty much the best econ in the game for the investment, even though it takes some time to spread. It's not for early rushing of course, but Advent is a bad choice for early rush games anyways.

Yeah, i miscounted the military labs haha

I thought I started with two like all my other races. Thanks for the catch.

A regen bay is more useful only if you have a fleet. I have like a few assailants + a cap. In addition, you have to research the thing, which is time better spent researching enforcers (research time is a commodity too!)

To Crand:

Against mothership + guardians, heavy cruiser isn't so great anyway.

I agree that repulsion is extremely powerful, and I neglected to mention it because I didn't really go into Advent micro.

Certainly, guardians should always get repulsion.

However, against mid game Vasari who goes missile upgrade assailants and subverters, the whole mass shields thing fails pretty hard. Also, assailants can fire outside of your repulsion range.

Ok, newb question, but I have downloaded some of your recording files so I could watch your games...where do I put the files so that the game can find them?

C:\Documents and Settings\***YourUsername***\Local Settings\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Record-SinglePlayer

Local Settings is ordinarily an invisible folder, so you have to enter this manually into the address bar unless you have enabled 'view invisible folders.'

is bidding on pirates a viable strategy?

FYI, Mediafire >> Rapidshare.

Mediafire does own, and hunting, I don't agree with a lot of what you say. But I must say, sorry you wrote all this up when it's essentially worthless with the patch lol

What? How is this info not useful still. Even if a few changes occur patch to patch, this is still an excellent resource (esp with the recordings) for new players or those that wondering how they might juice their game up a little.

yeah too bad the replays don't work with the current version though. Still a good guide.




What is Space whale?

You want the mods to change the forum software for you?

Micro is probably the most helpful. I've found that while a lot of players focus-fire the cap, a decent player ends up getting it out anyway and that you end up doing much more economic damage if you destroy his light frigates. With a repair station, he can be back on his feet relatively quickly, but without frigate support it'll be harder.

In your 4th TEC build, you mention that Illuminators don't get the bonus damage on light frigates, but in the in-game info card, it says they are strong against them. Is this a glitch in the game?

How?

Same for the Space Whale(Jarrasul Evacuator). How's it useless?

Yes - they do Anti-Capital damage, as opposed to the Anti-Medium damage done by the other races' LRs.

Space whale is dead meat vs any good player.

It has 1 nuke, which is "ok."

Its other skills are .... medium to bad. Its colonize is total crap. Gravity bomb is a bad version of ion bolt. It's also the slowest cap in the game. This is worse than it first appears. The biggest problem is not the fact that it dies (but... it does), but more so that it slows down your fleet movement from one point to another.

The carrier is just bad. There are several reasons, but here's the most important one.

Vasari generally go assailants at the start (1 research only, 25 crystal only for research). That means most races will go flaks to counter. Which means they automatically counter your carrier. Repair cloud is totally useless compared to most abilities, so you just have a big fat useless blob.

It's speed is equal to the Progenitor and Akkan. 400. I think "nuke" means the Nano-Disassembler, right?



Flak is not amazingly effective against Vasari strike craft since they can just avoid flak and repair whatever hits they take. Repair Cloud also works to negate the effects of flak on Vasari strikecraft(by flying them through the cloud after each attack pass).

The Assailants thing is logical, but it's not as if Flak is an amazing counter to them either. The Assailants can simply elect not to engage enemy flak and proceed to wreck their structures and capital ship.

so hunting how do you feel about the vasari only getting their economy up at around the 4th tier(?). It seems that the vasari really lag behind in economy if they don't go for an early rush

thx for the info

Vasari just shouldn't go trade ports.

Your best bet later is to get high tech units (enforcer/subveter) or Armada. Their trade port tech research is ridiculously expensive, and 4 civics is too painful to do normally.

Just a suggestion, maybe you could tag it in your appropriate posts what version of the game were the replays for.