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Babylon 5 Mod Ideas

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Babylon 5 Mod Ideas

from Sins Forums
So since it should be inevitable for a B5 mod to get made, i figure it couldn't hurt to talk some about it, and perhaps maybe plan and get a team going for it.

Major Major Questions...

1. How many playable races to attempt, and which ones?

2. How many ships per faction, should ship roles/designs and numbers be based off the existing Sins races or not care?

3. Which general era of ships to use for the Earth Alliance?

4. Should capital ship mechanics remain the same? IE should the current game mechanics be kept in more or less the same condition?

My personal ideas is that the general game should play about the same, but that many ships should be condensed into one for some races, or expanded for others, notably I am in favor of maintaining only 3 Capital ship choices, as I think finding 5 for each major race would be quickly silly.

I would say for the beggining 3 balanced major races would be best, in general I view the technical/qualitative tiers being as such

Lowest: League Worlds, Early EA, Dilgar
Medium: EA, Centauri, Narn
High: Minbari, Drahk
Godish: Shadows, Vorlons, Additional Ancients

The mod would preferably come with several maps, one of which would represent the B5 universe just before the shadow war, it would be nice if a timer was included so that perhaps 3 hours into the game 2 special pirate worlds (the Shadows and the Vorlons) launch massive and mean pirate strikes... regular Raider Pirates would otherwise conduct themselves normally.

Other special maps/scenarios: Dilgar EA war... Earth Minbari War, and Narn Centauri War (The Shadows should/could be present here as well.)

While some races would be playable in these scenarios, for example in the Earth-Dilgar war you could play these or the League worlds, as the Early EA faction would be balanced with them; but the Earth Minbari War should be a 2V1, with the Minbari being powerful enough to take on two players.

This means that in the generic game, the balanced races would be EA, Narn and Centauri. The Minbari, Drahk and League worlds would all be special militia or pirate forces, we could easily design new planets that corresponded to these races and would spawn with special militia units, thus you wouldn't have Minbar being guarded by Raiders or Drazi.

Ship wise, the most important is obviously the Capitals- My personal choices for the 3 main powers are as such, with the TEC similar ship noted.

EA: Omega Destroyer (Kol) Posideon Super Carrier (Sova) Nova Dreadnought (Marza)

Narn: Bin`Tak Dreadnought (Kol) G`Quan Heavy Cruiser (Dunov) (Third????)

Centauri: Primus BattleCruiser (Dunov?) Octurion Battlship (Kol) Balvarin Carrier (Akkan?)



Additional Scenarios: Psi Corp Rebellion, EA Civil War, Mars Rebellion, The Centauri-League War (with Drahk as Pirates?) The list goes on and on.

Oh and for the EA, I would use Hyperions as the basic combat unit, to give fans an iconic mainstay for their fleets, as opposed to the too awesome for Frigate Omega, and the lesser known Olympus, Tethys, Saggitarius, or Oracle... (or the others   )
modding
479,465 views 311 replies
Reply #251 from Sins Forums Top
Ok I didn't know it was the game engine setting the limitations, so I must therefore apologize for my post. Thank you however for your response it is good to hear a response that elaborates the problems than just saying it won't work, I know it doesn't fix anything for you but I am a person who likes to know why something won't work not just that is doesn't. Therefore it seems that this mod will have to, as you said, be put on hiatus unless or until, ironclad adds this feature; hopefully in a patch or expansion. So it seems B5 will regrettably have to wait for a while before it comes to fruition, I appreciate the work you guys have already put into this and it is a great shame that the game has these limitations. Thank you again for responding to my post.

Entil'Zha Veni; In Valen's Name
Reply #252 from Sins Forums Top
I disagree about a credible mod. I think too many of the B5 mods have focused on getting the look and not getting the feel of the show. I agree with some of the other posts: who care how it looks. I want a balanced and fun game. B5 would be great not because of the "cool ships" but because the universe has diverse fleets that each are very different, but can be relatively balanced. EA brings lots of cpaital ships; Minbari just two or three expensive monsters; Centarui has nimble attack crafts backed by behemoths and Narn are just damage sinks. Currently SoSE races pretty much all play the same. There are small differences, but the game designers took the easy way out by just making everything a mirror of the others. I want to play each race differently.

This should be doable in the context of SoSE. I've played around with creating B5 ships using the current models. Whitestars can work, but no AI to control them. High speed and high turn rate, and they work well vs comp if you keep them moving behind them. I've had trouble with setting up new research so I think I'm going to try to just make all ships available at the start. The other tough one will be Minbari stealth, though I saw that each armor has a hit percentage for each weapon; I've fiddled some with making a new armour "stealth" and making all of the rest weapons have low hit. Again, I have little experience and I'm pretty busy so I haven't tried tried in a while.
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #253 from Sins Forums Top
A Whitestar fleet would work.... right up until it met an Omega-X battlegroup which wouldn't work atm.

A Babylon5 station? Err no you would run out of flair points 1/4 of the way down the mesh, not to mention the fact you could potentially fly through the hull, and not attach any particle effects to the rotating sections.

How would you space the ships out so that the jump points do not form on top of one another?
Reply #254 from Sins Forums Top
well how about a b1-5 stations as a planet or moon like danmans one just a thought of course there would be no weapons on it.
Reply #255 from Sins Forums Top
Big B5 fan. Always love to see B5 mods cropping up for games I play. Whoo hoo!

An idea for the dilemma over the Shadows/Vorlons and gameplay balance. What if instead of making them separate playable races that we made them special abilities? These would be a series of things to research.

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Shadows. Let us say the Centauri have a line of techs to research involving the Shadows. In B5 terms, this would represent the increasing Centauri relationship with Mr. Morden and his associates. The more you research down this line, the more tied to the Shadows you become.

So what kind of abilities could you get? How about the ability to "pick a target for Mr. Morden"? You select a gravity well and a shadow battlecrab zips in much like Vesari ships appear with Returning Armada. It wreaks havoc for a certain amount of time. Hm, is there any way to limit its time there? Make it disappear after a minute (returns to hyperspace).

I think this is more in-line with the Shadows early on. They were more hit-and-run, creating chaos. It wasn't until late season 3 that they came out in force.

The further you research this line, the "pick a target" ability improves. Maybe more battlecrabs? Shorter cooldown and/or cost?

The final tech would be calling the Shadow Planet-Killing Armada, a once-per-game ability. It jumps in and goes on a rampage through several gravity wells.

The Vorlons? That would be different since the Vorlons rarely got directly involved in their allies' battles. Maybe the first levels would be big increases in diplomacy (Vorlons were all about getting the younger races together). Heh, conversely maybe Shadow levels hurt diplomacy, isolate you more. Mid-levels could be the implementation of telepaths, giving you some sort of bonuses against Shadow battlecrab appearances. And of course the final tech level would be the Vorlon Planet-Killing Armada, just like the Shadow's.

Maybe around the mid-to-late levels you gain access to the Whitestar. And those researching Shadow tech get a Shadow-skinned warship (like the EA get the Omega-X).

---------------------

Hm, is it possible to make techs mutually exclusive? If you research one, you cannot research the other? It would be really cool if all races had both Shadow and Vorlon lines, but once you chose one you lost the other. Especially for the EA tech tree. That way you don't have to create separate EA-Sheridan and EA-Clark. The line you choose will determine which EA you are representing.

That is just a bit of brainstorming I had while reading the thread. Don't know how possible any of it is. Don't know how balanced any of it is. Just some ideas I wished to share.
Reply #256 from Sins Forums Top
well how about a b1-5 stations as a planet or moon like danmans one just a thought of course there would be no weapons on it.


Not a very convincing B5 station without weapons, the ability to launch and recall fighters or enough external light sources?

Don't know how possible any of it is. Don't know how balanced any of it is. Just some ideas I wished to share.


Not possible atm there is no way to script in events or control the AI so something like a Shadow Battlecrab will likely clear out an entire galaxy unless stopped. You can't have animated textures either so the Shadow and Vorlon skin you see in the show appears static in SoaSE. I like the idea of teching up to call in something like a Shadow Armarda or the Vorlon Battlefleet thats something I'd already considered as a good fit.



Reply #259 from Sins Forums Top
To a point of clearing some confusion on the B5 episode discussed.

First, is that the fleet didn't lose their power. It the jump engine is what they lost because of the extreme cold created by the shadow death cloud(A.K. Planet Killer).

Hence, the fleet couldn't escape but can still move.

Second, even if a ship does lose power, their momentum would still keep them moving unless an equal or opposite force stop it (Physics law).


Reply #260 from Sins Forums Top
What about the other races? Would a mod with just the alien races be possible?


Its more that certain ships either fit within the contraints of the game engine or they do not.

For example:

EA Nova Dreadnought has 18+ large turrets of various design, no turret animation means you'll see beam and particle effects coming out at blatently wrong angles on potentially each and every turret.

ISA Whitestar would be ok as it uses more of a beam emitter or front facing weapons, it also has flight dynamics not a million mile away from SoaSE ships you just need to speed it up a bit which isn't hard. Most of the lighting can be handled by the skin texture there aren't a ton of effects required in as say the EA Omega Destroyer where you simply run out due to the hard limit imposed.

So if you pick certain models or a scenario which avoid these areas you might get away with it though you would be gambling that future expansions or patches go in your favour.

Now factor in that the most vocal groups in the SoaSE community are dead against any RTS style enhancements which give more detailed control and IC/SD are comitted to support low spec PC hardware you can see that such a gamble at this stage really might mean never finishing.

Soon as we have a release date and a feature list for the expansion then we can re-evaluate atleast that my view.

Interestingly one problem we don't have in SoaSE is the flexibility to jump between systems. The HW2 guys have problems with the way the hyperspace animation works and the constraint of being limited to one system at a time. The X3 team are constrained by the way jumpgates are used to enter/exit a sector.

The easiest way to control balance issues between races is to start off with a Single player campaign.
Reply #261 from Sins Forums Top
..so something like a Shadow Battlecrab will likely clear out an entire galaxy unless stopped.

Yeah, that was the main problem I saw in my idea. It would be great to be able to call in a Shadow battlecrab, but it would need to have a built-in time limit. Otherwise you get an uber-ship that completely imbalances the game.

Hm, can you give ships negative regeneration rates? Seems like a poor way to simulate Shadow hit-and-runs by having the ship blow up after a certain time, but at least it is one way.
Reply #262 from Sins Forums Top
why not just have them take up ALOT more fleet points than the other races?
Reply #263 from Sins Forums Top
Negative regeneration rates, now there's thinking outside the box... Not tried it is the short answer.
Reply #264 from Sins Forums Top
What about maybe just releasing shipsets? Damn, too bad seeing as how SoaSE is like B5 just with a different story. Hopefully they'll fix stuff for the B5 mod in the expansion.
Reply #265 from Sins Forums Top
So Im guessing your giving up then...?
Reply #266 from Sins Forums Top
More a case of being stuck with no obvious way forward, I simply do not know how to add some of these features into the game.
Reply #267 from Sins Forums Top
A well balanced, accurate, and 100% populated B5 universe in Sins would be an amazing thing to behold. But I think it's unrealistic to hope for that, at least in any reasonable amount of time.


Having a fleet of battlecrabs battle a fleet of omegas in a highly inaccurate battle is better ten-fold than waiting until a balance can be fairly made so that the one battlecrab can take out the omegas with ease, yet not rule the entire game.

Having an Omega that's taxing my system while firing unrealistically is better than having no Omega, imo.

I understand that it's much more complicated than it seems, but some of us are very easily pleased and can deal with great imperfections. I still play GC2 with a personally modified B5 mod, with a static Omega, and it brings me great joy to have at least that, other than nothing at all.
Reply #268 from Sins Forums Top
I've been busy creating a B5 Galaxy map, it's pretty much done. All of the B5 worlds are present, well... those shown on the map of the B5 RPG. I've tweaked out some things to allow for quick research of ice and volcanic planets (ok, I basically gave each players increased starting resources). I don't really know if the galaxy map presented in the B5 RPG (Mongoose Publishing) is canon or not, but I think it gives a fair representation of the B5 universe.
Also added worlds presented in "The Vorlon and Shadow factbook" and "The Rim", both from the RPG line of books.

B5 Galaxy map

This version starts the player out with just 1 world. I'm thinking about making a map with all the empires and their correct colony worlds, but I've got some balance isues to work out (23 Centauri worlds vs. 1 Gaim world is hardly fair to start with, isn't it?). Read the readme file for notes on the map.

Note that I took some liberties with the map, we have no idea about what the worlds look like, so I tried to be true to the source material as much as possible. Terran planets are few and far between (unless they are near First One homeworlds, they can shape worlds any way they like). The only Terran worlds are major colony worlds. Some of the major colonies are Desert. Lesser colony worlds are either Ice, Volcanic or in rarer cases Desert. I've turned worlds outside the influence of empires into asteroids.
Reply #269 from Sins Forums Top
heard fantastic, i hope this can be true, and than would it be a wounderful real game.
Reply #270 from Sins Forums Top
Giving this some thought. Might have an idea for balancing Shadows with the rest of the universe.

Shadow Battlecrab should first be researched through the proper channels, make it the highest tier research (8 I believe), a.k.a. the equivalent of the Novalith cannon or something like that. That way you can control the cost of the craft even more.

The Battlecrab itself should cost some Cap Ship crew cost, as well as a significant amount of resources, and some fleet points for good measure.

As for being all powerfull, please consider the following.

First, give all races which are capable (everyone except Narn) the ability to research psychic block, maybe at Tier 6.

Give all offensive Capital ships of the Psi enabled races the psychic block ability, which can be autocast or target cast. This momentarily makes the Shadow vessel(s) vulnerable. The psychic block is not all powerfull, and can only be sustained for a short while, which means all available ships should start pounding the Battlecrab. The G'Quan cruisers might be given a little damage bonus over Shadow Vessels, to make up for their lack of Psychic Block ability (and to promote co-operation between lesser races!). Perhaps the Narn should be given Tier 6 research which enabled to give their main guns a boost against enemy vessels at the cost of mobility for short periods of time.

The Shadows and their servants all serve under one empire, so include Zener, Streib and Drakh ships in their fleet list. The lesser races can stand up to the Drakh and Streib vessels with moderate ease. Leave the big Shadow toys for the higher tier technology.

Shadow fighters should be launched by theBShadowcrab, I once recall a Battlecrab launching a full wing of fighers, correct?
Reply #271 from Sins Forums Top
Added support for the Sins 1.1 Beta, download the following file and extract to your galaxy folder.
Babylon 5 map version 1.2 <-- Note that there are three seperate files: Readme.txt, Babylon 5 map for regular Sins and a Babylon 5 map for Beta 1.1 Sins.
Reply #272 from Sins Forums Top
Thread / mod is dead?
Reply #273 from Sins Forums Top
not dead dormant until IC & SD sort out a few things.

Nothing to stop someone else having a go though...
Reply #274 from Sins Forums Top

 

I think it would be cool to just split it into 3 fractions to make it easier. This way you can justify more capital ships that are actually ones from the series. Please forgive misspellings...

 

Fractions: Shadow alliance, Aliance, Vorlon/ancient

Shadow alliance: shadow forces mixed with clarks earth forces and psycorps along with cintary and maybe some of the other races that were shown in crusade.

Alliance: Babylon 5 forces and some earth ships with all the other races in the alliance including telepaths.

Vorlon/ancient: Vorlon with a few of the ancient races

Reply #275 from Sins Forums Top

Grafix and game play changes:

Jump gates should be around the planets. If destroyed only large ships can jump in unless a large ship is in the group of units jumping. Ships should make the jump holes from the show and the shadows should just phase in and out. If a gate is destroyed trade port is disabled on that planet, also trade ships should skip the planet as if it was not there. If that is not possible disabling trade port for that planet should be fine at least it takes away the funding. On top of this that planet should not be able to detect incoming ships if the technology is researched. I do think there should be an ability to build a new gate though and that it should have a lot of health. Bone head maneuver should be enabled.

maneuver should be enabled.