With tactical battles my games would take even longer to complete than they do now. I would probably play with this option turned off (if possible).

I don't know if anyone's played Star Fleet Battles (tabletop Star Trek battle game), but maybe Stardock can make something similar for Galactic Civilizations before they work on GC3?

In the Star Fleet game everyone has points to spend on their fleet, and then those fleets go head to head to see who wins (with a variety of scenario's available).

Perhaps if Stardock made a stand alone game based on the GC universe they can use it to test the idea of tactical battles before committing to putting it in GC3. It would be easier to work out the AI and balance if it were seperated from other projects. Perhaps they could even make it an online game so they can prepare for the exploits people might use. (It could be PBEM like Laser Squad Nemesis).

Anyway, tactical battles sounds like a HUGE headache to put directly into GC3 without testing it first. Especially if GC3 is supposed to have multiplayer.

The game should have had tactical control from the beginning. As it is now combat is a joke. Players should always have control of THEIR units. If the programmers continue to refuse to correct this mistake then maybe it's time to boycott the game. The programmers have known about this problem from the beginning. The programmers have known for some time now that the players want that mistake corrected. And still, after all this time, the the programmers only offer to us is that it would take an exspansion to correct THEIR mistake. So, as I said previously, if the programmers continue to pay us lip service maybe it's time for us to move on to another game. Lionhed

I think that if you would be able to have the ability before the battle to arrange your ships and set an attack plan. during the actual battle you could be able to pause and decide to do or to make a ship do something. also i think that it would be cool if you could take over the enimies ship.

I've got a few ideas for what I'd like to see in a Tactical Combat System.

For starters, there should be 3 modes to handle space combat.
1- Control Battle (You control your fleets)
2- View Battle (AI controls your fleets)
3- Simulate Battle (CPU runs the battle very quickly and determines the outcome without viewing the combat)

As for combat itself. I think ships should always be grouped into fleets before launching them into space (much like MOO-3). Note that you could have a fleet with only a single ship in it if you wanted. The maximum number of ships allowed in a fleet should range from maybe 5 to 20 ships (higher level techs allowing more ships per fleet as you advance).

Multiple fleets will be able to enter the same battle (with perhaps a limit on the number of fleets per battle to keep things from bogging down). In combat each fleet is controlled like a single unit, with every ship in a fleet executing the same commands. So say for example you have 10 fleets with 20 ships apiece, you'd only have to control 10-units, not 200-units so it wouldn't be micro-intensive.

Each fleet would also have it's own 'Tactics Configuration' which you could setup when the fleet is launched (so the Battle AI knows basically what you want this fleet to do, without having to set it up for each combat). These Tactics Configs would also be used in player controlled combat to 'run' any fleets that the player hasn't issued direct commands for (say your fleet blows up it's target(s), it would run these tactics until you gave it new orders manually). Note that these settings would be changeable on the fly in battle too (you'd click on a fleet and have a 'Tactics' panel you could open to change things).

Tactic Setting #1 - Movement: This would control how the Battle AI moves the fleet. Here are some example settings.

Long Range Standoff: The fleet will attempt to keep targets just inside it's maximum missile range, and will not chase fleeing targets. If enemies attempt to pursue the fleet, it will attempt to move itself away while still being able to fire missiles on it's target. Good for carrier fleets, and fleets of missile ships with very little defensive weaponry.

Gun Range Standoff: The fleet attempts to stay just within range to use it's main guns on it's target, and again will not chase fleeing targets. It will also try to move away from enemy fleets that try to pursue it.

Short Range Pursuit: The fleet attempts to stay very close and circle it's target, and will pursue a fleeing enemy. Good if you have a fleet of small fast ships that can stay outside the firing arc of a larger vessels main guns by circling it at close range.
Gun Range Pursuit: The fleet will attempt to pursue it's target, but stay just inside it's main gun range (as opposed to getting up close and personal).

Tactic Setting #2 - Target Priority: This controls how the Battle AI would prioritize enemy targets.

Capital Ships: The fleet will try to engage large enemy ships.

Planetary Defenses: The fleet will attempt to engage defenses on enemy planets (like MOO style missile bases, ground batteries, etc).

Interception: The fleet will try to focus on smaller enemy fleets, as well as intercepting missiles/fighters/bombers targetting other friendly fleets.

Tactic Setting #3 - Fighter Mission: This controls the behaviour of fighters launched from any carriers in this fleet.

Close Range Escort: Fighters stay close by the fleet and engage anything that threatens it.

Attack Fleet Target: Fighters will fly off to engage the fleets current target (but will still attempt to intercept enemy fighters and missiles while en route).

Escort Bombers: The fighters will attempt to escort any bombers launched from their fleet. (If all the bombers get destroyed, the fighters will behave like they do in Close Range Escort)

Tactic Setting #4 - Bomber Mission: This controls the behaviour of bombers launched from carriers in this fleet.

Attack Fleet Target: Same as above.

Attack Capital Ships: Same as above.

Attack Planetary Defenses: Same as above.

 

I think these "Tactics Configurations' would go a long way to simplify the space combat enough that it's not boring in the late game (like with MOO-2), but also allow players full control.

TBH, I don't really want to see tactical combat in GC. That's what I play Sins for. You don't want the two games essentially merging to become one.

Actually, there are three levels of Battlespace Management: Strategic, Operational, and Tactical. Operational refers to Company, Fleet, or Squadron level management of combat developments.

There is one other situation when the Leader of an entire military complex can issue orders, a Special Directive, which is given to a unit at any level to carry out an operation or tactic of an unusual nature, such as dropping misinformation to deceive the enemy about future plans in the area. This is referring to real principles rather than ones from the game, as is my previous post on the thread.

A couple of links to ideas here:

Space combat

(This is a slight variation on current combat that provides different qualities to different types of weapons.  It assumes a typical 2D square system, whether realtime or turn based.)

 

Ground combat

(This also assumes a 2-D square combat system as well, probably over the planet.  It does have a big hole, though, in that I'm not sure how ot handle defense in such a system.)

Just some suggestions, got this idea from Ogre Battle. As much as I would like tactical combat similiar to MOO3, I think tactical combat should be simple.

For each fleet players can give it priority commands.

1. Hit Points - Lowest, highest

2. Attack - Lowest, highest

3. Defense - Lowest, highest, armor, beam, missle

4. Size - Tiny, Small, Medium, etc (target a certain size ship, if none exist AI will target next available size)

Maybe a tiny ---> big ship option, and big ship ---> tiny option.

5. Best- Your fleet will always attack a fleet that will allow it to do the most damage.

6. Support - Takes out any ships with transport, colony, construct modules first.

Maybe players can put up to three tactics in a fleet, special option to apply one fleet's tactics to all fleets in combat, or have a copy option to quickly switch another fleet's tactics. Governors on the galactic map to quickly switch default tactics. Say I have a fleet of ships using mainly laser weapons. I can enter 1st priority Size tiny, 2nd Hit points - Lowest, 3rd support.

On your #6, I would offer that the presence of escorting warships should prevent that.  IOW, the warships conceptually would always interpose themselves.  Thus, the support ships should not be able to be targeted until all the escorts are destroyed or de-weaponed.

If the battlespace is offered for tactical fighting, the escorts should always start (be placed) between the attackers and the ships being escorted.

Resurrecting this again!

 

Well, be it tactical or whatever, the combat system *needs* to be changed for any sequel. I had no idea just how plain annoying the current system is before today. I write this after i spent more time hitting the reload button than designing ships or playing the game, for crying out loud... eventually the game even crashed wihtout any error message, and i do not have the nerve to start it again right now 

Apparently, the AI sometimes decide you cannot win. No, i don't write this because i suck at the game and lose constantly. Here's what happened in the scenario of the Dark Avatar campaign where you have to conquer the planet on which the khorath clan experimented with the spore technology from the dreadlords. Maybe it is just that this scenario is infested with bugs anyway (first time i started that scenario, i did not even have a "First colony" on the starting planet and had to buy some slave pits to get the planet to even do anything...).

I had two fleets with small ships and tried to destroy a dreadlord fregate. Of course i was prepared to lose almost all of my ships in the encounter, but apparantly i cannot destroy that unit. Attacking it with a fleet would result in destruction of the attacking fleet, even when it was a full fleet vs a 1/37 hp dreadlord fregate. Attacking it one by one with single ships revealed the following:

-when the fregate had 1/hp, any attacking ship would do zero dmg no matter how it's potential max dmg would be before it would get blasted to smithereens by the dreadlord ship.

-hhen the frigate had 5 hp, my attacking fighter would do 4 dmg, and the dreadlord fregate would have 20 hp by the end of the fight, without gaining a level.

 

That just sucks... it isn't fun at all when you get the impression that upon moving your spaceships on an enemy spaceship the outcome is not only destined by pure chance, but also by the obviously cheating AI/game mechanic.

 

So, more player involvement in the space/ground battles please, OR at the very least, make the outcome of these battles less depending on chance...

i like the rogue idea for manuverability that will at least keep me from having a huge hull fleet or not using tiny fighters at all how come nobody talks about the ai i like the idea abput reinforcing my planet lets not forget the game a turn based rts not a rbg or continuous play rts save that for sins of a solar empire please i only know call to power civilization 3 and 4 freeciv empire earth panzer general warriors of rome galactic civilization 2 medieval total war and world of warcraft so i don't know if i'm qualified in sins of a solar i miss anti matter upgrades and pirates please make some pirates their good equalizer for a weak ai the arceans are supposed to be a power and theiy don't arm on their own the drengin in dark avatar made a lot of weak ships make them stronger but make them a threat that will go to war with you  the thalans are too defensive they don't attack altarians at least could fight in dark avatar in dread lords the terrans rocked what happened the yor can fight but they have no planets arceans are now to slow they need a better ai the krynn needed a better ai in dark avatar why scale it down the korath can't fight no more bring that resoursefulness back the drengin can't fight and have no planets when the ai fight good there is one annoying thing there ships pop easily make them stronger with the capability to learn how to make ships from you when the races industry is low increase planets and raise industry the torians thalans and iconians are fine industrially don't raise or lower that i miss the iconian and krynn espionage and influence capability of dark avatar make all not just 3 of the races descent on the game i would like to see 30 not ten major races i like the infinate universe but above all else remember turn base rts saver anything else for sins of a solar empire this is not all inclusive above are some good ideas remember we are not galaxies that is another type of game

The AI's ships are not powerful enough try 109 attack and 109 defense for like the more powerful weapons. I also don't like how slowly the AI changes their tactics. If I go up against lasers with shields and against their shields with missiles they wont even attempt to counter this until either towards right before their defeat or with another AI after their defeat. 

I support evil muppet on everything he suggested. If sins of a solar empire is this attempt. I still would rather turn based. I'm just wondering why he's yellow maybe he's chicken.

My question is have you played any strategy games, unless your playing final fantasy tactics strategy games don't give you more control of your units. This is not a role playing, and I don't want it to become one. They are trying to remedy the situation with this thread.

A new thread spawned on this topic.  Including a link to it here for reference.