A few random things » Forum Post by slarjy

Since no one commented last time, I'm going to add a few more things and bump the post.

6. OBSERVATION: Citizens and improvements (and asteroids) barely matter relative to colony worlds. Seriously you build up a huge population of scientists and 15 science districts and the world won't come close to one where you managed to snag all the nearby colonies. I think there should be more of a benefit to building up your core worlds. I think a citizen should add a full +1 to its type, not a puny 3% or whatever. I think a district should also add +1 to its type in addition to its level modifier. (If that means costs have to be rescaled then so be it.) It would make the game less dependent on your starting position and more about your decision-making ability and the faction you are playing.

7. OBSERVATION: Credits scale poorly throughout the game. Early game you're cash poor. By midgame you have more money than you know what to do with and are making it rain like a rapper at a strip club. Perhaps ships should have maintenance costs based on their hull size to balance things?

8. OBSERVATION: It is a bit anticlimactic when you finally take out a pirate base or space alien nest. It goes boom and that's it. It is such a milestone in the early game especially if you aren't blessed with an amazing command ship.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting slarjy,

reply 1

6. OBSERVATION: Citizens and improvements (and asteroids) barely matter relative to colony worlds.

I won't comment on balancing, but I also find it hard to care much about citizens on my planet(s) either. Perhaps some sort of small leveling up mechanic for citizens (their bonuses just increase over time if they're not reassigned or whatever) would change this.

Quoting slarjy,

reply 1

7. OBSERVATION: Credits scale poorly throughout the game. Early game you're cash poor. By midgame you have more money than you know what to do with and are making it rain like a rapper at a strip club. Perhaps ships should have maintenance costs based on their hull size to balance things?

Unless it only comes in LATE game, ship/fleet maint doesn't appear to be in yet. So the days of fielding a vast armada for free are probably numbered...

Apart from this, money works the way it should IMHO. Just like being rich in real life (not that I would personally know), money is an abstraction. If you don't have any, it sucks. But if you have some, you quickly realize that it doesn't actually do much for you. It doesn't make you happy, it doesn't do anything about loneliness, nor personal inadequacies, etc.

In terms of the game (and macroeconomics): money is fundamentally a claim on the underlying capacity of the economy for which it can make claims. Thus it can only buy what is actually producible, and faces severe diminishing returns. For example, Bill Gates cannot buy an unpolluted, happy and worthwhile world to live in, despite having more money than he can spend. The Iridium (ie 'Corporate Sector') cannot win a war with their bank accounts - at the end of the day, they actually have to be able to make ships with appropriately researched techs - if they don't have these underlying social structures they cannot and should not be able to win a war. I actually think money is actually implemented pretty well in GC4. And look forward to when severe economic repercussions result from waging war in game. Diverting ouput (ie raising taxes) to fight a bunch of dillholes far away should always be a choice you need to doublethink (unless you're Drengin or Krath Clan - in which case just attacking everyone is just groovy (which is why you play these guys)). Fielding fleets of warbirds will be more interesting when ship maintenance costs are in game ...

cheers,

-tid242

Successfully updated karma reason!

Ships do cost maintenance, but not tiny or small hulls, I think. I start seeing costs with medium hulls (but maybe its also due to total ship construction cost?).

Money is also super easy to have enough off for me, but I run trade routes full bore - this feels overpowered with a route easily making 10 credits per turn and you get like 20 or more with the first few trade techs. There maybe should be less reward for those, less max routes and also maybe only routes to core worlds should be allowed, not colonies.

Maybe you are supposed to dump your money into stuff like rushing things or buying more governors, etc. I am a frugal type and I somehow hate spending money on these things, though

With all the improvements to keep my citizens happy I can run the tax rate on the lowest level no problem - I think there should be a bit more challenge here.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting tid242,

reply 2

Quoting slarjy,

reply 1

6. OBSERVATION: Citizens and improvements (and asteroids) barely matter relative to colony worlds.

I won't comment on balancing, but I also find it hard to care much about citizens on my planet(s) either. Perhaps some sort of small leveling up mechanic for citizens (their bonuses just increase over time if they're not reassigned or whatever) would change this.

Actually... on second thought. I guess I just don't "feel" excited about what citizens are assigned to, but their bonuses are actually pretty decent. I would imagine that if you build pop-cap boosters, it can get pretty sick..

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Litjan,

reply 3

Ships do cost maintenance, but not tiny or small hulls, I think. I start seeing costs with medium hulls (but maybe its also due to total ship construction cost?).

Yea, I'm not sure. The medium hulled ships I've got going current game have no maint costs. I'll keep an eye out for this when I get larger hull sizes (damn RNG tech cards!!)..

edit: update, large hull sizes do have maint in this game.

Quoting Litjan,

reply 3

Money is also super easy to have enough off for me, but I run trade routes full bore - this feels overpowered with a route easily making 10 credits per turn and you get like 20 or more with the first few trade techs. There maybe should be less reward for those, less max routes and also maybe only routes to core worlds should be allowed, not colonies.

It feels like trade is necessary to run sustainable books early game with ultra-low taxes, which seems like a good trade-off decision-wise for players. I haven't opted to go up the trade-tech tree early game with my current tests, but will definitely try that when I run a more diplo-game.

fml, I didn't even know you could run routes to colonies - it seems like "core worlds only" trade would make sense..

Interesting reply,

-tid242

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting tid242,

reply 4

Actually... on second thought. I guess I just don't "feel" excited about what citizens are assigned to, but their bonuses are actually pretty decent. I would imagine that if you build pop-cap boosters, it can get pretty sick..

Mineral input of 17 (not counting improvements) is massive and proof for my point. I think I've seen entire (tiny) sectors without that much.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting tid242,

reply 5

fml, I didn't even know you could run routes to colonies - it seems like "core worlds only" trade would make sense..

Me neither. Mystery mechanics are bad. Also I wonder why the AI doesn't build more freighters, especially with declared friends. If the AI had run a freighter to a colony, I might have noticed.

I haven't seen trade routes worth 10 CPT but even 6 or 8 is massive especially when you get 4, 6, or even 8 routes.

I don't think it would be unbalanced to start ship maintenance costs at small hulls and have it escalate from there. I'm glad it doesn't start at tiny hulls because I like to defend my worlds with something.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Litjan,

reply 3

With all the improvements to keep my citizens happy I can run the tax rate on the lowest level no problem - I think there should be a bit more challenge here.

Yeah entertainment complexes (or whatever GC4 calls them) are overpowered and need to be rebalanced. I don't have any good ideas on what the mechanic should be yet.

Successfully updated karma reason!

aerez4546

Join Date 05/2007

+54

Quoting slarjy,

reply 7

I don't think it would be unbalanced to start ship maintenance costs at small hulls and have it escalate from there. I'm glad it doesn't start at tiny hulls because I like to defend my worlds with something.

Yeah for those that haven't gotten far enough in the tech tree to notice yet, large hulls cost 1 cred maintenance per turn, huge hulls cost 2 per turn.

So fleet maintenance is nothing in the "early" game; and can actually easily remain nothing for the entire game, because medium ships are plenty efficient enough to take care of all your space fleet combat needs.

I agree with slarjy that it would probably be a good idea to start charging some maintenance costs at small or medium hull sizes. Me personally I would start maintenance costs with mediums, but I could agree with small also. Something like having small and medium hulls cost 1 per turn per ship, large 2 per turn, huge 3 per turn.

I feel a little silly spamming out medium hull ships as Mimot making a massively powerful military, and not having to pay anything for it. But hey as long as it is allowed I will abuse it

Successfully updated karma reason!

I guess the upkeep of the navy should be a given fraction of the construction costs. Anything else is just asking to be exploited.

A modifier could be an increase in upkeep for ships NOT in orbit around a friendly planet/shipyard or maybe outside friendly or open-bordered territory (fleet in harms way).

There should also be a downside to having multiple fleets bombard a target with missiles from several hexes away - since missiles are the only weapons that can do that, I feel that maybe a special "missile fired" upkeep is in order to make it more expensive to use these. In real life, missiles are more expensive than bullets, too.

+1

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Litjan,

reply 10

A modifier could be an increase in upkeep for ships NOT in orbit around a friendly planet/shipyard or maybe outside friendly or open-bordered territory (fleet in harms way).

Interesting! I like this. Maybe 0 if garrisoned and double outside friendly territory?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Litjan,

reply 3

Maybe you are supposed to dump your money into stuff like rushing things or buying more governors, etc. I am a frugal type and I somehow hate spending money on these things, though

I used to be like that but in my last game when found myself at war with a civ rated over 2 times my military rating, I found myself using rush a lot. The nice thing about rushing is you can use it to build your strongest ship in 1 turn in the shipyard closest to where it is needed.

I also used to keep my tax rate at the lowest level, but with only a few exceptions in the last game I had 99% approval on most of my planets so I never changed the tax rate.

Also, I built a lot of medium maintenance free ships, but sometimes thy died. My huge ships never died, but since I didn't have trade ships going to colonies (nice tip) and all my trade was going to the strongest military civ, I was nervous about running out of money with all of my rushes.

Successfully updated karma reason!