Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2415

The Ashes 0.70 feedback thread

Greetings!

Owning the company never stops me from complaining about our games.

First: Add me as a friend as I'm playing MP a lot and am looking for people to play with.

## High Level Points ##

1. Incursion and Plasma storm are fun. Players are using them quite effectively.

2. I'm pretty happy with most of the balance.

3. Map resource distribution is too bland.

4. When someone is nearing victory via Turinium the music should change and the Turnium display at the top should start flashing faster and faster or something. Also, the display is very unintuitive and needs work.

5. Need *something* that lets me target units. Sentinels are a great turtle weapon but they are too hard to kill with the current unit mix.

6. Need more economic build up options.

7. Performance is nearly 2.5X better than 0.64 (ymmv)

8. UI needs a lot of work.

## Alpha -> Beta ##

9. This 0.70 is the last major ALPHA update. The Beta will be going out in January and adds the Substrate.

10. New Global Ability: Overload. You can temporarily overload a power generator to get 4X its output for 30 seconds.

11. New Global Ability: Amplify. On a structure you've built an amplifier on, you can increase its output by an additional 10%. Stacks. Permanent.

12. Dreadnought experience added.

13. Orbital Strike added (calls down a nuke).

14. Major AI update

15. Lots of new maps. Let us know what kinds of maps you enjoy the most.

Other stuff:

PHC
	Support Abilities
		Sensor Sweep	Scan a section of the map to uncover the FOW for 30 seconds
		Amplify	Target power amplifier gets a 10% boost. Stacks. Permanent.
		Overload	Target power generator gets provides 4X the resource output of the region its in for 30 seconds.
		Call Engineer	Call down an engineer onto any location onto the map that is clear of FOW
		Intensive Care	Target units in area gain 1000 HP health back over 30 seconds via healing drones
	Military Abilities
		Plasma Storm	Target enemy units in area lose 1000hp health over 30 seconds
		Incursion	Small invasion force consisting of a Zeus, a Nemesis, 2 archer squads and 2 brute squads are brought in
		Orbital Strike	Target area receives 5000 damage over 5 seconds. Has 10 second count down.
		Carving Turret	Places a heavy plasma beam cannon in target location that does 500HP of damage to one target over 3 seconds, 5 second cool down. Loses 20Hp per second (has 600 base HP)
		Disrupt	Units within target area (600 HP) lose all shields -- useless on PHC

Substrate
	Support Abilities
		Overcharge	Target power generator gets a permant 15% boost. Stacks
		Regenerate	Target units have their shields fully restored over a period of 5 seconds
		Transmutate	All metal in storage becomes radioactives at a rate of 5 metal per 1 radioactive
		Sensor Drone	Summons a Sensor drone to target location that floats there until it's destroyed.

	Military Abilities
		Drone Swarm	Place a swarm of drones in the target area (uncovered FOW)
		Cool name	Places a floating energy ball in target area that lasts 30 seconds, does 1000 damage in lighting strikes to a single target every 5 seconds.
		Hijack	Target group of T1s and T2s within a 500m radius change sides
		Recruit	Splinters (Neutrals) join player
		Corrupt	All enemy T1s in target area become Neutrals
		Detonate	Teleports a bomb to target area that when it explosed does 4000 damage in 3 seconds to target area.

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ASADDF

Join Date 02/2008

+50

Really awesome news! congrats Dev's. I will try the update in a few days and put my review here.

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Can't wait to see the substrate

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Kreyson

Join Date 03/2006

I cant wait to stomp around smashing tanks.

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Quoting tatsujb,

reply 4

please work on meta-unit movement behavior and auto-targeting. units that have been given an attack order will stop all attacks indefinitely once unit is dead and take fire from all remaning units (if that unit is AI-controlled otherwise the same happens to the opponent) even at point blank without returning fire on any of all of it's turrets until given a new attack order.

Yeah, I had this too. I had a massive T1 and T2 army but the single T3 died and all the units sort of froze. It was in a choke point attacking their base. Their point defence kept killing me and my guys wouldn't engage. I disbanded the army and they still didn't really respond. Upon reforming the army again they did start to form into a neat queue and I was able to slink away. Frustrating.

Quoting tatsujb,

reply 4

the lack of a pause button on all construction tasks (building or engineer) is THE MOST anti-macro thing in this game. is their addition planned?

I think Frogboy wrote somewhere that a pause button will definitely be added.

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Bit of feedback, observations, mix of things.

- Starting on the top left on the new map Crater there are 5 metal wells but two of them are so close to the Seed that they can't be built on.

- I noticed both my sentinel and the enemies often did not shoot at the opposing forces units. Sometimes they did, not sure on the deciding factor.

- Sometimes could not move a unit, attack move would work though.

- purple flashing around map edge.

- Performance much better and smoother all round for me. I now run it fine on Crazy settings. I have noticed even that has Temporal AA off by default, which is fine by me.

- Crazy graphic setting puts Terrain Shading Samples to Low (Extreme has it on Medium). That happens in both dx11 and dx12.

- Personal thing but I might have had the units going across in a line in the factories. The way they are at the moment, with 4 units to choose from in a grid kind of emphasizes how few units there are.

- Trying to do everything at once rather kills production and build efficiency/speed. This is a good thing! Have to balance when to do things. Still learning this.

- Quanta Array, Drone defence building and repair bay seem much more expensive and take longer to build. Need to do more games to see if too expensive or not. Is repair bay nerfed a bit?

- Units can fly over most of the hills in the game so be careful where you put your defences. A Couple of times I have thought I have plugged a gap nicely and they just go around it where i thought they couldn't. It is not always obvious, not sure if this needs to be improved on or just need to get used to it/look much closer.

- Still a lot of meta unit problems but most have been mentioned a lot so won't go into them again here. I hope these improve a lot.

- Better textures on the terrain definitely noticeable, things looking a little more real/solid not. Good direction.

- Selection circle definitely improved.

- Not sure about night maps yet. They are just quite dim, I was expecting more somehow. Might want want to have a building which lights up an area around it. Not super functional but could be nice in the base. Could also act as the type of building which has a smaller range than a radar but gives you a constant visual of the land around it.

- Fighters seem very small

- Orbitals def. add to the fun factor of the game. Don't appear as OP as I thought they might. Different story against AI of course. When the AI can use air and orbitals it will be great.

That will do. Definitely a big improvement over .64

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Hope this is the correct area to post.

Some suggestions or I haven't figured out how to do it.

- Allow an engineer to remove or repair a structure or building. Apparently, I placed some defense items to close to buildings and larger units could not pass by or over them. Also had an engineer near an enemies metal extractor which was half built and could not build or remove it.

- in the .64 version I did like the health bar on units and buildings, seems in .70 it has been removed or is there away to toggle this.

- When grouping units you only see the group on the mini map, on the main screen you cannot tell which unit is associated to what group.

Keep up the great work.

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Quoting Dog01B,

reply 7

- in the .64 version I did like the health bar on units and buildings, seems in .70 it has been removed or is there away to toggle this.

Holding down "Alt" will show the health bars. There is also a permanent toggle in the menus I think.

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Some of these comments may apply to the earlier version and I did not notice.

-Make DX11 versus DX12 a graphics setup option instead of having to get to DX12 via launching the game through the Steam Interface. The shortcut put on the desktop always launches it as DX11

Part of the issue with the below comments may be because I am running in pretty high resolution (2560x1440) but it is a 27" flat panel as well.

-It is rather difficult on most maps and VERY difficult on the ice maps to see any of the T1 units even zoomed it. T2 units are pretty hard to see. T3 are easy to spot.

-It is pretty hard to see the engineers. Using the 'select idle engineer' option is really the only way I can find them.

-It is VERY difficult to tell if a metal or radioactive extractor as been built on the resource. It should be much more obvious.

-Need a 'range' feature on units and on more of the built defenses. I think the repair drone is the only thing I noticed a range circle on and that only appears when you are placing it. Sentinel and smart defenses need it as well and it would be great to be able to see the range after built (may holding shift when it is selected or right clicking it). Same goes for units. Need to be able to see the range of the units.

-Pathing of units (meta or not) is inefficient or down right buggy. Units sometimes go off in the opposite direction. In addition to fixing the pathing maybe show the path the unit (or units) is (are) going to take when you give them a move/attack order. Sort of like google maps gives you a highlighted route. That way if you don't like the route selected you can correct it by setting multiple way points.

Definitely improved over the previous release.

Edit:

-May already be in the works or mentioned elsewhere, but need building completion voice over or notification (can make it an option you can turn off if you don't want/like it). Also need build complete notifications for T3 units.

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I just need to jump in and say this is another wonderful step forward for the game. I've been playing and loving the updates. More constructive things to come...

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meta unit will cause units to clip through terrain and perform every imaginable thing they are otherwise incapable of doing. the whole meta unit thing is too "ridgid" to me.

I just want to say, 1) you can exploit this actually, i was able to make t1 "fly", and disbanded the army when they were on the other site of the cliff

2) I couldnt stop laughing though when 8 or 9 of my t1 units just "flew" straight north in a beautiful formation and ignored all my orders, there was just some lovely music missing for units that experience true freedom for the first time

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Looking good with 0.70! Some feedback:

- New building explosion effects are great with that bright flash. Maybe add that same flash effect to dreadnought explosions as well?

- Improved terrain looks good

- Performance has significantly improved. My benchmark went up for heavy batches 20-25% on a GTX 970

- For a game changing power, plasma storm does not seem that powerful

- Consider reducing the rate of increase of quanta cost for orbital abilities. Given that orbitals are a big part of game strategy, players will want to use them more often

- Meta units behavior still a bit buggy. Enemy meta units tend to stay idle once their core T2/T3 units have been destroyed. All units in metaunit do not respond when one of their units on the edge of the metaunit takes enemy fire. (Which I suppose is a bad and good thing - I don't want my entire metaunit rushing to take on a nest of sentinel turrets just because one lone T1 out there took fire.) Maybe set meta units to only defensive engage within a certain radius?

- T1 factories have a weird flashing effect if an engineer is assisting them

- Night maps currently feel rather dim. The terrain is fine but the units need more lighting. Explosions and particle effects should be also brighter and throw off more surrounding light on night maps

- Not specific to 0.70, but its getting difficult to make out the team color of T1 units even at medium zoom. Perhaps increase the size of the team color parts on the model?

And some suggestions

- Please reduce the HP bonus to T3s from Zeus. Fighting 22,000hp hyperions gets tiring rather fast. A metaunit with multiple zeus and a hyperion is already powerful enough on its own right. That HP bonus makes it unbalanced and not fun to fight.

- Hades die too quickly to anti-air units. (I suppose that will be part of the big air strategy revamp being planned for the beta)

- Some way required to counter sentinel turrets backed up repair bays. They're currently very tough to take out

- Some way to transport units to the front line

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New Global Ability: Amplify. On a structure you've built an amplifier on, you can increase its output by an additional 10%. Stacks. Permanent.

I hope this sort of ability has a visual identifier on the node. So it gives you a nice boost but enemies with vision on it can also see that you have stacked it up X amount of times which makes it a good target to destroy.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2415

One of our big upcoming focuses is going to be not just on meta unit targeting but regular unit targeting in general.

For exmaple, the Cronus should stay back and fire but inevitably gets drawn into battle at closer ranges which we don't want it to do. We have to disect the AI logic to see why it thinks that's a good idea.

That's the nice thing about early access. We can do with unit AI stuff BEFORE release rather than, as seems typical, post release. A lot of these weird behaviors really only start to show up when you get sufficient players into the game.

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Ashes is starting to look good but there are some points that I don't like the direction the game is going into.

I'm aware that the game is still at a rather early stage but since this is the last alpha I think some things seem to be rather fixed.

so without further ado my feedback on the current state of the game, I'm going to make a lot of comparisons to SupCom FA as that is the game that I want Ashes to supersede and enhance upon:

- The graphics are wonderful. The abilites are sort of fun but I'm not sure I like the lineup completely.

- The economic aspect of the game is underwhelming to say the least. The options for economic buildup when not expanding are very limited as I see it right now. I would really like to see something thats more similar to the FA style of economy with multiple tiers of extraction that allow progressive upgrades in certain fields. The general upgrade buildings are ok but don't seem as focused nor as interesting a choice when compared to upgrading mass extractors in FA.

- More unit diversity. Right now all units hover or fly something like tanks or mechs would bring some diversity to these unit types

- More unit types period. Right now there appear to be relatively few units. That might make it easier to choose from the portfolio but I actually like diversity however only if each unit has its own advantages.

- Strategic zoom with icons or other indicators! I currently have a very hard time getting a feel for the battlefield when I zoom out, this has been discussed in the revisiting supcom thread, that ashes doesn't want to do supcom style strategic zoom, but the state it is in right now makes it relatively useless to me, maybe others feel differently about this but then I would like to know what the right way to use it is. I really liked the strategic zoom in Supcom and I have yet to see how the zoom in ashes improves upon it.

- Moveable HQs (Commanders). This might seem like a strange point but in assasination games I might want to move my main building / commander so as to evade enemy attacks. Right now this is not possible and I would like to know whether that is actually planned at some stage. I think knowing where the enemy that you need to kill is that is also not mobile is a bit mh underwhelming tactic wise.

- More defensive options and more tactical options. I think the gameplay right now is basically - cycle build in factories and send to the front for a giant material battle, maybe mix up unit types. Maybe I just haven't played enough yet but this is the feeling I get right now (will update if that changes for me). I would like options like in Supcom where you could build shielded forward bases that again had counters against them etc. so just in general more ways to play the game ( troop transports etc. ( I think the global abilities that do something similar are not enough) , stationary artillery, teleports)

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 14

One of our big upcoming focuses is going to be not just on meta unit targeting but regular unit targeting in general.

For exmaple, the Cronus should stay back and fire but inevitably gets drawn into battle at closer ranges which we don't want it to do. We have to disect the AI logic to see why it thinks that's a good idea.

That's the nice thing about early access. We can do with unit AI stuff BEFORE release rather than, as seems typical, post release. A lot of these weird behaviors really only start to show up when you get sufficient players into the game.

A number of games my Cronus has been backing off of objectives, which I think is what you want, so kudos. However at that long range the subordinate units sit back and watch. Again, I think that is what you want, so kudos. Cause for a lot of frustration and confusion, though, when you want your units to be aggressive. Seems to me you want and aggressive stance, where the subordinate units have a very long leash, and a defensive stance, when you don't.

Also, I could probably resolve some of this with unit composition, like emphasizing longer range units in my Cronus armies. Unfortunately the reinforcement system is unreliable (see my previous post) and manual grouping too tedious. Seems tough mountains to climb by 2016Q1, so good luck!

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Quoting Blackclaws,

reply 15

- More unit diversity. Right now all units hover or fly something like tanks or mechs would bring some diversity to these unit types

They have said that is not happening by 1.0. Sometime down the line they may do some mech type units but not likely track (as it is meant to be made obsolete by the hover ability)

Yes please! The division of the T1 and T2 factories rather emphasizes the limited choice. I suspect more will come but in DLC rather than with 1.0. I just hope the pricing is good!

- Moveable HQs (Commanders). Right now this is not possible and I would like to know whether that is actually planned at some stage. I think knowing where the enemy that you need to kill is that is also not mobile is a bit mh underwhelming tactic wise.

This is what I want too. At the end of the game it is too predictable at the moment. The two easiest ways to do it are allowing the Seed/HQ to teleport onto a player controlled node or to have it launch and fly like a Terran HQ in Starcraft.

Teleporting: It would be unlocked through research or just a very expensive ability from the get-go. Once initiated it would take a couple of minutes to spoil up before the teleport. While it was doing that it would give off some graphics to reward a scouting player with the intel that it was going to move, though there wouldn't be an indicator on the destination node. After teleporting it would take several minutes before it could start the process again. Obviously these would be tested and altered as necessary but I think there needs to be delays built into it so it couldn't just keeping pinging around the map at will, which would be no fun for the other players I think.

Launching one is similar to Terran, obviously it is vulnerable to attack while in the air and quite slow. Perhaps also a resource income penalty while it is not in the ground.

I think the ability to move it would really make the game more dynamic. I would also like to know if this type of thing may be implemented in the future.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 14

One of our big upcoming focuses is going to be not just on meta unit targeting but regular unit targeting in general.

That is great because I think it is becoming apparent there will still be situations when a group of non-meta-ed units will be the better choice so that needs to work well too.

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