Enemy AI purposfully smarter than allied AI? » Forum Post by MisterSurreal

Well, hopefully it's not intended AND your high.

Successfully updated karma reason!

LOL being high could be the problem I think the enemy AI is better than your allies because the difficulty is on Hard, if you did normal they'd act the same...ish. I just know that they act the same in Nightmare as they do in Hard but you have handicaps, or at least I think you do...teehee

Successfully updated karma reason!

I've noticed this, too. I think it probably has to do with the unpredictability of the human player. With the enemy all-AI team, the bots can "communicate" and execute tactics with each other. The allied AI could very well be trying to do the same thing, but the human player could make it unnoticeable/impossible.

Of course, it could just be done on purpose to make the tournament more challenging.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I know the enemy team always seems significantly more difficult when -I'm- high.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting danw13335,

reply 3

I've noticed this, too. I think it probably has to do with the unpredictability of the human player. With the enemy all-AI team, the bots can "communicate" and execute tactics with each other. The allied AI could very well be trying to do the same thing, but the human player could make it unnoticeable/impossible.

Of course, it could just be done on purpose to make the tournament more challenging.

This could be it. I've noticed the same, that the enemy AI is far better than my allied DGs' AI.

It would be pretty cheap if this was done on purpose, but it's possible.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm pretty sure the enemy AIs also get bonuses to stats, XP, and/or gold income too. I just got crushed in an hour-long painfest by a team of AIs who ... well .. let's just say that with 7 kills, Oak was attacking twice a second, taking 150 damage out of the 500-600 that my character sheet said I was dishing out per hit, and running as fast as my Regulus (who had +25% movement speed). I don't know anything you can buy for the gold you get for seven kills that will do that for you, even if you also have a few thousand saved up from passive gold income, so I believe pretty strongly that the AI is getting some extra gold from somewhere.

And I haven't even mentioned the Unclean Beast, who could literally stand there and let me shoot him forever, and it just about cancelled out his passive regeneration. (did I mention I was wielding Ashkandor, Mageslayer, and Deathbringer(*)? And wearing the Bulwark of the Ages and Godplate?) I had to continually toss mines under him to even begin to damage him faster than he healed, and I could only do this standing at a health crystal, since the Beast was attacking me about four times a second (that's what it looked like, anyway) for several hundred damage each time. And that's how he was with only around 12-15 kills -- he had 44 by the end of the game! The only reason they didn't finish us off sooner was that (a) the AI is too stupid to just walk away and grab the flag for the capturable health crystal, and ( the AI is too stupid to realize it can just walk up to my citadel and take it down singlehandedly.

Unfortunately, replays aren't working yet, so I can't find out what they bought to become so ueber-powerful or confirm my guess about gold income.

I did pull out one of the earlier rounds when it started to go this way. It was Fortress on the Brothers map, and the AI was just crushing us, killing my allies over and over, had siezed control of the entire portal side of our base, was becoming totally unkillable, etc. So I grabbed a couple artifacts from the kills I'd managed to score and took down each of the AI's fortresses in turn, plus the static defenses around them. Took just a couple minutes to work through their base, and the AI didn't bother me the whole time I was doing it. (which was odd: usually it teleports in at the first sign you're attacking a fortress)

(please note: this is not a whine, just a report on how things are. I've won every Hard tournament I played, but there are always a few rounds where I might as well have given up immediately)

(*) Deathbringer is the one mistake I know I made -- in retrospect, the Bracers of Rage would have been a lot better in this situation.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Moonlapse,

reply 4

I know the enemy team always seems significantly more difficult when -I'm- high.

I know right? Wtf is up with that?

Successfully updated karma reason!

I have the same experience, even though on some games the team's AI is doing a fine job, so its not always retarded. Could be a combination of the demigods in the team and the map? That the AI just handles certain demigods better and performs differently depending on the map?

On some games it was as said above, pointless to play on past a few minutes in, the enemy AI would already have a massive advantage in experience.

I wasnt always on my game though, which of course influences play a lot as well.

EDIT: this 'issue' shows from the hard difficulty level

Successfully updated karma reason!

I, personally, was about to make a comment about the allied AI is seemingly better than the opposing teams. I just got the game today, I've played though 2 tournaments and about 3 or 4 skirmish games, and I haven't lost a game yet. Mostly, I've just been playing normal difficulty. (haven't tried Hard difficulty yet, but hopfully that will be a challenge.)

In summery... despite the fact that I still consider myself learning the ins and outs of the game. My computer-controled buddies have seem to more than make up for my slack.

So to summarize the summery, If anything the Allied AI is propbably overpowered (though I seriously doubt this).

So to summarize the summery of the summery, MisterSurreal is probably high.

Successfully updated karma reason!

It seems that in hard tournament the enemy are hard AIs and the friendly team consist of normal (or even easy) AIs. It does give you quite a challenge, but at the same time it feels unrewarding to work with a team of clearly inferior teammates.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I can understand that. A lot of games just give the opposition additional resourses on harder difficulties, instead of just makings them play more effeciently.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting TheGrubb,

reply 9

I, personally, was about to make a comment about the allied AI is seemingly better than the opposing teams. I just got the game today, I've played though 2 tournaments and about 3 or 4 skirmish games, and I haven't lost a game yet. Mostly, I've just been playing normal difficulty. (haven't tried Hard difficulty yet, but hopfully that will be a challenge.)

In summery... despite the fact that I still consider myself learning the ins and outs of the game. My computer-controled buddies have seem to more than make up for my slack.

So to summarize the summery, If anything the Allied AI is propbably overpowered (though I seriously doubt this).

So to summarize the summery of the summery, MisterSurreal is probably high.

You'll have to play on hard at least to see this happen. Normal is a walkover indeed.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Man, have you played on easy? It feels like your having a cage-match with baby ducks.

Hell, my girlfriend got a triple-smite! No offence to her of course...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Hehe, after smashing through normal I did not dare touching easy.

Successfully updated karma reason!

From the code:

# Set difficulty for each slot based on rules
    #   On Easy -> Player team mates are nightmare; Enemy are easy
    #   On Normal -> Player team mates are hard; Enemy are normal
    #   On Hard -> Player team mates are normal; Enemy are hard
    #   On Nightmare -> Player team mates are normal; Enemy are nightmare

And yes the Hard AI plays better as it has better bonuses and more plan depth (for the AI smarts).

+1

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Duncain,

reply 15

From the code:

# Set difficulty for each slot based on rules
    #   On Easy -> Player team mates are nightmare; Enemy are easy
    #   On Normal -> Player team mates are hard; Enemy are normal
    #   On Hard -> Player team mates are normal; Enemy are hard
    #   On Nightmare -> Player team mates are normal; Enemy are nightmare

Many thanks sir

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Duncain,

reply 15

From the code:

# Set difficulty for each slot based on rules
    #   On Easy -> Player team mates are nightmare; Enemy are easy
    #   On Normal -> Player team mates are hard; Enemy are normal
    #   On Hard -> Player team mates are normal; Enemy are hard
    #   On Nightmare -> Player team mates are normal; Enemy are nightmare

And yes the Hard AI plays better as it has better bonuses and more plan depth (for the AI smarts).

I'm not even sure if this is the best course of action to make it difficult. Presumably, they did this so the player would have a harder time winning. The small problem with this theory is that it actually boils down to how many favor points you get, and in that case it is more difficult if your team actually knows how to get kills and play the game effectively. On most maps and gametypes, I can compensate for my awful team. However, on some gamemodes on some larger maps *coughDominationonMandalacough* it just becomes impossible to keep the enemy team from winning. The thing is, it doesn't actually stop me from winning.

I remember the last tourney match I "lost" with about 50 more favor than any Demigod on the other team. Sure, they "won", but I got pretty much every Favor Medal . If your team actually starts winning? Well, that's why I think in some ways it would actually be harder if your team was smart. You would have to outperform people while winning and it would really add a new layer of strategy to the game. As it is, once you get ahead, you'll easily end up with loads more favor than Demigod #2. If allies were smart, they might actually contest you on some of those Favor Medals.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Enemy teams are put on scripts to communicate with eachother imo.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Easy AI is retarded and suffers negative bonuses to their stats/money.

Normal AI is slightly less retarded and suffer some negative bonuses as well.

Hard AI have the same stats as a human player would, and probably some improved AI over Normal.

Nightmare AI cheats. They recieve signifigant stat and money bonuses.

Assuming you are playing on hard or higher, you will play with normal AI on your side, and your teammates will feed the enemy team, "giving" them more xp and money and thus making them higher level and better equipped. This effect causes the difficulty to appear higher than it would seem if you just looked at the rules for their stat increases + whatever smarter scripts they have over easy/normal. The less players on your team, the less noticable this gets. The single player tournament makes this really apparent, since you always play 5vs5.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting rhymfaxe,

reply 19

Assuming you are playing on hard or higher, you will play with normal AI on your side, and your teammates will feed the enemy team, "giving" them more xp and money and thus making them higher level and better equipped. This effect causes the difficulty to appear higher than it would seem if you just looked at the rules for their stat increases + whatever smarter scripts they have over easy/normal. The less players on your team, the less noticable this gets. The single player tournament makes this really apparent, since you always play 5vs5.

It's not just that.

I just got smashed on a Hard tournament level. On the final scorecard, the enemy Sedna had 5 kills to my 4 ... but her gold score was 44,000 vs my 24,000. I can assure you that one kill does not equal 20,000 gold. Neither does a few more reinforcement kills. By the end of the game she was bouncing around the map like a ping-pong ball and regenerating health like crazy.

You might say that her 16 assists vs my 4 are the difference ... so let's look at the Torchbearer. He got 6 kills and 6 assists, and racked in 44,000 gold as well.

What's really weird is that the previous game was Slaughter, and we had a bit of back-and-forth before trouncing the other side, with none of the enemy Demigods being inexplicably strong. It's as if the game is randomly giving me opponents without bonuses or with bonuses, depending on its mood. "I don't like you today ... enemy AI gets 2x your gold *bwahahahaha*"

Successfully updated karma reason!