I don't trust Army Recruiters...

Brother... Army... AH!

from JoeUser Forums
My brother has decided that he is going to join the Army. My brother is 17, hates authority, and doesn't have a clue to what real-life is like. What 17-year-old does? He spends his days playing computer games that supposedly imitate real-life battles, but despite the gore, there is no reality in them because he is safe in a chair, not out where it's really life or death.

While I appreciate our troops, I am scared to death for my brother. Though I know it's selfish of me, I am glad that he has to have both parents signatures to sign up for the reserves. My dad is with-holding because he, I am sure, is just as scared as I am.

I also have a huge distrust of the Army recruiter that has been working with my brother. Among other things, this man has basically told my brother that it doesn't matter what my parents think, my brother can do what he wants, and that he should gain my dad's signature at any cost. (What a message to get someone into a group that insists on obediance...)

This man has also promised that my brother will get school funding, and a ton of other things, but then I hear about how the Army rarely keeps those promises. I wish my brother would do more research before he gets all rared up to go on an adventure (which is the reason that he's wants to go.)

Despite my fear, and hesitance, I am proud of my brother for wanting to go into the Army. He essentially wants to go into the Special Forces, and though I know that's even more dangerous, I am glad that he does have ambitions that aren't against the government, as he has previously considered.

I also hope that if my brother does join, whether it be now, or when he graduates, that basic training, and whatever else trainees go through, will make him grow up, and become more respectful of those around him.

Mr Army Recruiter:

If you lie to my brother, and he ends up dead because he believes your lies, I wish all sort of pain and suffering beyond what you can imagine onto you!

I'm really scared, and now I know an inkling of what Dharma and Texas feel... just a tad bit of an inkling.
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Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
17 is young.  But then it is not far away from legal.  I hope he is doing it for the right reason. But he will be of age before you realize it.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

17 is young. But then it is not far away from legal. I hope he is doing it for the right reason. But he will be of age before you realize it.


It's a scary thing. The problem is that not many 19 year olds know real-life either... I don't know as much as a 21 year old.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Being "of age" doesn't mean you are wise.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's not as bad as it used to be, I guess the Pentagon got sick of all the complaints to Congressmen and Senators. The biggest things for your brother to remember are:

~The recruiter isn't the final authority on anything, the career managers at the MEPS are...
~If it isn't on his contract, it doesn't exist.
~Special Forces Qualification Course is NOT an enlistment option!!! (just in case the recruiter is trying to tell him it is). The only way a person can enlist into a Special Forces slot is to join the National Guard of a state that has a Special Forces unit in it. (Which are 19th Group: Utah, Oh, RI, WV, CA, CO; 20th Group: AL, KY, AL, PA, MA, MS, & MD. No one in the Reserves or Active Duty "Joins" a Special Forces unit... that is something that a troop has to volunteer for after meeting some prerequisites.
~Airborne school is a requirement and something that he SHOULD get put on his contract. Once he is in, it's a lot harder to get a slot.
The final advice for him is, know what he wants and don't be impatient. The MEPS stations hate it when a recruit takes the ASVAB, and has the physical, but leaves without a contract signed. Big Flippin' Deal!!! They will offer a few MOS's (based on his test scores, physical abilities and vision... and what is offered at the time. If he doesn't like what is being offered, wait a few weeks to a month and go back in. That or keep saying NO for a few hours and see what comes up.

Recruiters are like everyone else, there are those who use high pressure tactics and those who merely give a person advice and let them make up their minds. There are pretty stiff penalties for outright lies anymore, so most just make it sound like it's a lot better than it is.

Wish him good luck for me!!!
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
I joined the AF at 17.

He will be fine. The Army will be good for him. The military is actually a good place for young people who don't have money for college, or who are just kinda drifters in life with no specific goals.

It will teach him time management and respect, rest assured.

The college is true, I got the GI Bill and used every last dime of it on my degree. I think the Army has a little diff situation though, maybe something along the lines on how well you score on your ASVAB has to do with the amount of money you get.....not sure because I was never Army.

I wouldn't worry about him too much. Sounds like a perfect candidate for the Army imho.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
i'll be sure to pass on the advice para, thank you. more comment coming tomorrow when I'm on the pc instead of the cell.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
I appreciate your concern regarding your brother. I would be concerned if my sister wanted to join up. As we both know siblings are not replaceable. That said, I am proud of your brother because he knows something about himself that appears to be very important to him and not known by his family members. He must know he doesn't have a clue about life, wants some discipline administered by a power greater then he and wants to know he's going to work for the greater good of America and takes some pride in that decision.

As for the recruiter, I think your a bit off base by making a big negative assumption. Your distrust is pointing blame on one when the military is made up of millions following orders much like industry. Life isn't made up of guarantees regardless of who says what when and where, you know that. His future construction or IT boss could say he's going to train in one area, and end in another, even loose his job after thinking it was a long term commitment. Often in life we're required to step to a plate unknowingly to take our turn at bat even though we're scarred and don't know whether or not tomorrow will come.

I am proud of your brother because he's at least trying to know what he needs, wants and shows some willingness to venture down an unknown path of enlightenment. To have your father say no is enabling the part I don't agree with. Dad has to stop being a daddy and let his son make the moves to become a man in a world that doesn't any longer have rights of passage to manhood.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

Being "of age" doesn't mean you are wise.

Very true.  And I know some 30 year olds that have yet to grow up.  But the law had to assign an arbitrary line, and they chose 18.  I do know some that age that have achieved a wisdom.

Look at it this way, the military is not for everyone, but those that chose it, and embrace it, mature a lot faster than their peers.

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
As for the recruiter, I think your a bit off base by making a big negative assumption. Your distrust is pointing blame on one when the military is made up of millions following orders much like industry.


I am not "blaming" this man. My brother went to him, not the other way around. But I do not like this man's disregard for my family, simply because he wants my brother in the military. I realize that it is not this mans place to consider my family, it's my brothers, but this man is so uncompassionate towards us.

To have your father say no is enabling the part I don't agree with.


My dad has his reasons. His cousin (whom he is very close with) got drafted to 'Nam, and when he came back (injured) he was never the same. My dad is afraid that something similar will happen with my brother. Yes, there is a point that parents do have to let go, but when by brother is having my dad pay everything (from gas for his car, to his food) it's to ironic. My brother is saying that he wants to make this manly decision with all it's responsibilities, even though he wont do anything at home. So my dad is afraid that my brother will find out it's hard, and then regret signing on.

Look at it this way, the military is not for everyone, but those that chose it, and embrace it, mature a lot faster than their peers.

I truly hope that if my brother decides to join, he will mature... he needs it.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok, you're not blaming anyone. I can see how you might feel the recruiter isn't considering your family. But, his job is to support your brothers intention. He wants your brother to step to the plate and aggressively seek a signature from his dad, there by imparting baby steps to manhood.

have a huge distrust of the Army recruiter that has been working with my brother. Among other things, this man has basically told my brother that it doesn't matter what my parents think, my brother can do what he wants, and that he should gain my dad's signature at any cost. (What a message to get someone into a group that insists on obediance...)


How is it that you know exactly what the recruiter said, where you there? I am going to guess no, your brother told you what he was told. I am not being disrespectful to your brother or families parenting techniques. But, are you assuming your brother was accurate in conveying what the recruiter said. Could it be he's deflecting family negativity onto the recruiter for safety sake. I have a teenage son. Even though he's been an "A" student and a good kid, his ability to pass along my intent to his mother or others is often changed, motivated by his lifestyle and desire.

Another thought... It's easier for a 17 yr old to sign up and be forced to mature away from home in the military verses staying at home knowing mom and dad pay for everything. Not exactly motivating, in most cases debilitating. I say that again since we have an affluent lifestyle which isn't motivating to our teenager.

This man has also promised that my brother will get school funding, and a ton of other things, but then I hear about how the Army rarely keeps those promises. I wish my brother would do more research before he gets all rared up to go on an adventure (which is the reason that he's wants to go.)


Each recruit is told they can get schooling, travel the world and all that exciting stuff. Unless it's in writing and or maybe tied to OCS, promises from a recruiter equate to promises I might make in earnest as a company President. The gray area behind such promises has strings down stream.

I will offer a momentary prayer that your heart finds peace with your brothers choice and your father does what's right, even though he's scared. I told my son he can choose college but my desire is for him to consider the seals or after college, the agency.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
How is it that you know exactly what the recruiter said, where you there? I am going to guess no, your brother told you what he was told.


Yes I was there. The recruiter came to our house, and we all sat down and listened to what he had to say.



Another thought... It's easier for a 17 yr old to sign up and be forced to mature away from home in the military verses staying at home knowing mom and dad pay for everything.


I'm not sure what you mean by easier... I know that it would force him to mature, but I don't understand the "easier."

I will offer a momentary prayer that your heart finds peace with your brothers choice and your father does what's right, even though he's scared


Thank you!
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Actually SF is an enlistment option these days. (If very qualified)
And the Army has more money for college through the Army College Fund. If he hasn't gotten his diploma yet he should forget about a good job and the larger amounts of cash and college money though.
I will have my 20 in in less than a year and a half. 4 in the Corps, 14+ in the Army.
I also joined at 17 but should have waited another year or so.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Actually SF is an enlistment option these days. (If very qualified)


What is "very" qualified?

If he hasn't gotten his diploma yet he should forget about a good job and the larger amounts of cash and college money though.


If he joins while he's 17 he wont have his diploma. If he waits till 18, then he will.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes I was there. The recruiter came to our house, and we all sat down and listened to what he had to say.


I find it difficult (but not impossible) to believe that a recruiter would tell your brother "that it doesn't matter what my parents think, my brother can do what he wants, and that he should gain my dad's signature at any cost" in front of his mother. It doesn't matter what she thinks? She could kick the recruiter out of the house then and there! (Yes, that might drive your brother towards the recruiter because she "wasn't supporting his decision" or somesuch... but legally she could kick the SGT out.)

What is "very" qualified?


Probably "very physically fit." AH, wait: Link

-Be a male, age 20-30 (Special Forces positions are not open to women)
-Be a U.S. citizen
-Be a high school diploma graduate
-Achieve a General Technical score of 110 or higher and a combat operation score of 98 on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery.
-Qualify for a secret security clearance.
-Qualify and volunteer for Airborne training
-Take Defense Language Aptitude Battery or Defense Language Proficiency Test
-Achieve a minimum of 60 points on each event and overall minimum score of 229 on the Army Physical Fitness Test

GED won't cut it. Honestly, like SSG Geezer mentioned, GED isn't the way to go. I know they've opened it up more since I came in, and there's always waivers for everything (they're just sometimes very very hard to get), but there is still quite a stigma from a GED; a recent Army Times had an Editorial about "bad GED soldiers," and a lot of GED-holding soldiers wrote in to retort and say that it was sadly the general view.

Now, if he gets in a diploma program that isn't a GED... I know a guy in the Intelligence field who did that (no, you don't know him, Geez).


I wish strength to your brother on this difficult decision. I wish strength to you and your family in supporting him in it, whatever he chooses.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey I joined with a GED!
Oh, that's right, they made me Infantry when I was in the Marines.....Hmmm, perhaps a little cause and effect there?
It isn't for everyone but with the right attitude it can be a great learning and even maturing experience. (But not all will mature )
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey I joined with a GED!


I wasn't aware, and I didn't mean to disparage those who do. Many of them want to make the best of themselves, and overcome the stigma (and the outright discrimination, as well. If they aren't allowed in certain fields, that's discrimination, it's just based on an arbitrary measure of "intelligence," a measure in this case which is completely bogus).

It's just not the easier way, in this case.

Maybe they're trying to talk Tears' brother into the "Basic as Senior Trip" method, with the AIT and other service after graduation?
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hmmm, good to know, SSG Geezer, last I knew you had to be at least an E4 to volunteer. Things change I guess... I also remember when you had to be an E5 AND Airborne qualified before the SF recruiters woud even talk to you.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Airborne qualified before the SF recruiters woud even talk to you.


I think you're right. Sometime ago being Airborne qualified was a min standard for both SF and Seal school consideration. Mark my word, times be a changing fast in favor of expanding SOG teams. Watch the general army shrink into more support operations. I just hope agencies operating offshore add more highly trained bops non-military ground leaders.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Watch the general army shrink into more support operations.


See also "Separate Brigade Combat Teams." Bye, bye, Divisional deployments.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
I find it difficult (but not impossible) to believe that a recruiter would tell your brother "that it doesn't matter what my parents think, my brother can do what he wants, and that he should gain my dad's signature at any cost" in front of his mother. It doesn't matter what she thinks?


Actually, my mom supports my brother. She doesn't mind him joining, (I think she just wants him out of the house) it's mainly my dad that is the huge roadblock for my brother joining while he's 17.

Hmmm, good to know, SSG Geezer, last I knew you had to be at least an E4 to volunteer. Things change I guess... I also remember when you had to be an E5 AND Airborne qualified before the SF recruiters woud even talk to you.


Wow, that's like another language there...

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
They need SF because of the money corporations like Blackwater are offering to highly qualified SF guys, 200K plus for doing executive protection and things like that in the war zone. Hard for the Army to compete with that.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
SSG... I don't believe the expansion of SF teams relates to organizations like Blackwater. The reason demand for Blackwater and others like them grows is they provide cost effective added value and more importantly a wide range of sophisticated skills that exceed the average SF team members. Par-military organizations are often made up of x-Airborne & SF guys that later signed up for the Seals or left for CIA, FBI, DEA and SS training, gaining a folder of skills making them highly valued as ground assets, worth considerably higher comp pkgs and true professionals.

It's true SF teams are highly skilled low level ground specific, but 99% lack the added skills needed for protection of dignitary's in highly volatile states and or combat zones.