My Mother, Loving, Kind, stern and a Saint

Recently there has been a spate of "how could they" blogs that trashed working mothers.  I know the intent was not to trash all of them, but in their zeal to demonstrate their anti-feminism, they caught a lot of innocent mothers as well.  Including mine.

Let me tell you about her.

She was Valedictorian of her class.  She would have gone to college except my aunt got polio, so the money was not there.  She wound up marrying a loser.  Had some kids (we are catholic, this was the 50s - get over it).

I am second oldest, and when I was 4 (ages at this time, 7-4-3-1), the loser left.  Only to be seen once more in my life.  So my mother went to work.

Wait!  What about Child support!  Alimony?  Get real!  This was the 60s!  yea, the court ordered it!  My mother got 1 check!

I was the man of the house, so I assumed a lot of responsibilities at the tender age of 6.  I would get up, dress, make breakfast and my mother's lunch.  And then wake the others.  I did this for 2 years. Until.....

Eventually she met and fell in love with another man.  A Navy guy.  They married, and he shipped off to England for 2 years.  So while he was in England, I went back to doing what I had been doing.  My sister, an angel now, was a waste then.  Even she will tell you.

So yes, I grew up fast.

Then he came home.  He was still young.  Wanted some children of his own.  So my Sister was born.  My god-daughter! I have written about her before. It was a tough labor and my step father was a bad sleeper, so I had to wake him and tell him of his daughter.

Then he went to Nam.  My mother went back to work.  there were 5 of us then.  I was pre teens.  He came back, and decided to switch to the army.  The army screwed up big time! First they promised no BT, then they made him!  They they found the agreement! So he was re-promoted and assigned 3000 miles away.  We packed up and drove out.  Got there, and the new post decided there was a mistake!  No, the real post was 3000 miles away!  300 miles from where we had been!

We headed back.  And during that journey, someone ran out of BC pills. (we are Catholic - they are not illegal - learn or get over it)  And conceived twins.

They were born in Letterman.  Now there were 7 of us, and I was changing diapers on 3, before I was 15.

I love every one of my siblings.  Everyone is a god's gift to my mother!  And me.

And as things go, that man left.  Decided he wanted some fresh thang!  Not one burdened with 7 brats.

So she had to work again.  At least this time, the courts were more proactive, and this guy did send some money.  Not a lot.  His trophy bride required most of it.  But some.

So yes, I raised my siblings.  Not alone.  All of us took turns changing diapers, babysitting, and helping.  Kind of like they did 100 years ago before the noblesse oblige of the current aristocracy took over.

We did it, because we were needed.  We did it, and we learned.  Learned the value of a buck.  learned the value of hard work.  Learned the value of pitching in.

Now some have decided my mother was a bad person.  Why?  Because she could not provide for 7 children while not working. When she was a single parent.

Some say that.  But I see a strong woman.  Whose only fault is in bad choices in men.  I see a strong woman who I admire, and fight with tooth and nail!  I see a strong woman that the likes no longer exists in today's society.  For in all those years, when she was the sole bread winner, she never accepted a dime of government assistance or charity.  Not a damn dime (and neither did I in my darkest hour either).

I am sorry that those of you with plenty and have forgotten your dearth do not see that.  I am sorry that my mother is not up to your Utopian standards.  I am sorry you have forgotten what it is like to scratch and claw for the next day's meal.  When dinner is mac and cheese (I hate it!).

I am sorry my mother does not live up to your standards.  But I am sorry for you.  For I am not sorry for my mother and what she did.  And I am not sorry for any of my siblings.  No matter how many should have been aborted.  In my opinion, none of them should have, and I appreciate every one of them.

And I am not sorry for losing a childhood to help her.  I guess I am warped.  I really enjoyed my children's childhood!  Even bought my son a race car set he did not ask for just so I could play with him.

I am not sorry.  I am not ashamed.  I am proud of my mother, and who I am.

period.

5,086 views 39 replies
Reply #1 Top
I am not sorry for helping to raise my siblings.  Period
Reply #2 Top
You are SERIOUSLY misrepresenting the exchange on Tova's thread, Dr.Guy.
Reply #3 Top
You are SERIOUSLY misrepresenting the exchange on Tova's thread, Dr.Guy


TW--you know I think you are great, right? Ok, keep that in mind

I don't think Dr. Guy is misrepresenting it all that much. There's a lot of "working women" bashing that is going on over there. It's pretty disgusting, to be honest.

That said, Dr. Guy, I believe that your mother would have fit into Tova's disclaimer--women who needed to work.

My mother on the otherhand, would not. Probably why I find Tova's thread to be so---well--horrible.
Reply #4 Top
Very interesting article, DG. I never knew these things about you.

People need other people. And people who say they don't are wrong. It's not a life lived if you don't have other people. Your mom did the best she did with what she had--and I bet she's very thankful that she had you.

I know I"m thankful that you're here!
Reply #5 Top
I don't think Dr. Guy is misrepresenting it all that much. There's a lot of "working women" bashing that is going on over there. It's pretty disgusting, to be honest.


My problem is not so much "working moms" (I was a working mom myself for several years) as it is the whole "chasing your tail to buy crap and spending no time with your kids" deal.

The scenario that Dr.Guy described on Tova's thread, and which he has now made a personal example of here is very touching. I've no doubt that his mother loves him and siblings very much. I think the fact that he and his siblings turned out so well is very much an endorsement of the care and maternal abilities of his mother.

I also think that he's lucky.

A house full of seven kids where the adults are always at work and the older kids are forced to be surrogate parents for the younger children is a recipe for disaster. As I said on the other thread, I don't think it's ideal.

There are so many demands and needs that must be met even with a single child. I think working and caring for a child is a delicate balance. When there are several children to care for, it's infinitely more difficult to maintain that balance. I'm impressed that his mother, apparently, was able to do so, but I wouldn't recommend it.

And just as an FYI, what I found horrible and disgusting was Dr.Guy's characterization of the stay-at-home moms on Tova's thread as "fat, lazy, and dumb".
Reply #6 Top

You are SERIOUSLY misrepresenting the exchange on Tova's thread, Dr.Guy.

No, if you read my exchange.  I am not.

Reply #7 Top

That said, Dr. Guy, I believe that your mother would have fit into Tova's disclaimer--women who needed to work.

ANd I can accept that.  However when I advanced my mother over there, I was told my mother was somehow a misfit for having 7 children.  I am not advocating anything but I did bristle at that, and I do resent the implication that I and my siblings are some how deprived for daring to help my mother. 

Reply #8 Top

know I"m thankful that you're here!

Glad you are free!  ANd thank you for coming by!  Now we can really talk again!

Reply #9 Top

A house full of seven kids where the adults are always at work and the older kids are forced to be surrogate parents for the younger children is a recipe for disaster.

I am sorry TW.  I do not agree.  I will agree that it can be.  But then that is dictated by the rules of the house.  You see, ours never was a house of priveledge.  We all pitched in. Much as the pioneers did.  We saw the others, and yes we envied them.  But we knew we could get ahead by being a family.  All of us.  Today, some of us have a great priveledge in that they have a stay at home mom.  Indeed my kids do. IN that I do take credit and sorrow.

But I advanced my situation and was told my mother was criminal. ANd that I was an abused child.  Read the comments.  Or do I have to cut and paste.

YOu have not had a fairy tail life.  But you do not know real pain yet.  ANd I hope you never do.  I hope none of you ever do.  I do not want anyone to grow up as fast as I did when I was being the man of the house at 6.  But my mother sacraficed a lot more than I ever did.  And I do get my hackles up when someone insinuates that any of my siblings should have been aborted because my mother could not support them.

You all know my feelings on that, and post partum abortion is even more abhorent.

I am sorry you feel that way. I do not appologize for my feelings.

Reply #10 Top
Now some have decided my mother was a bad person.


Where did anyone call your mother a bad person?

I am sorry that those of you with plenty and have forgotten your dearth do not see that.


You KNOW that this is a false assumption. My husband is an E5. Dharma's is an E6. We're not wealthy. There is no "plenty". We make sacrifices to be able to stay home with our little ones. I could write a long list of things I, and my family, forgoes in order to keep me home.

I am sorry my mother does not live up to your standards.


a. You cited her situation under the guise of being a "family member"...no one impugned your mother.
b. Your depiction of your mother's plight on Tova's thread left out many key details, including the fact that she was abandoned twice and was forced to care for her children all by herself.
c. No one's said that she doesn't meet their standards. The choice to have more children than one can provide for financially and emotionally is something I don't think is wise or beneficial. I have no problem with her character or mothering abilities. The only thing I have spoken against is the choice to have so many children when there would be no one home to care for them.

No matter how many should have been aborted. In my opinion, none of them should have, and I appreciate every one of them.


NO ONE said ANYONE should be aborted. This is beneath you, Dr.Guy. You're the only one who has suggested that you or your siblings should have been aborted.

There ya go, there's the main misleading elements of your article. Care to explain why you would paint stay-at-home moms with the "fat, lazy, and dumb" brush?
Reply #11 Top

And just as an FYI, what I found horrible and disgusting was Dr.Guy's characterization of the stay-at-home moms on Tova's thread as "fat, lazy, and dumb".

You might want to link that.  Since I never did say that either.

Reply #12 Top

Here they are.

10 is too young to stay by oneself.  I know you and Gideon had a row about CPS, but in your case it was your decision.  I would never allow my son to stay alone at that age.  Now he is 12, and I dont mind as long as he calls me when I am out (he does not get up before noon - kids!).

10 is much too young.  They had best start thinking of him, BOTH OF THEM, than their careers.  I have told my Boss on several occassions - Sorry, MY SON is sick, and I am going home.

And even my 12, I dont allow to be home alone more than a couple of hours. But as he is babysitting age (I was at that age), I allow him to babysit himself.  Less than his slug of a mother does too from the stories I hear.

You know what to do.  I will leave it at that.
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Rant!  Here is a good place!  They remind me of the parents in Cheaper by the Dozen (Steve Martin version).  Not of the dozen.
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In this estrogen fest, can I interject something?  I have already stated about the parents you describe.  Let me tell you about another set.

7 Kids, NCO, mother has to work.  Kids are not bad.  But they are kids.  They do kid things.  Never not unsupervised.  But the supervisor is mid teens mostly.  That is all there is available.

Parents never impose.  Kids dont do soccer.  You kind of have to have a parent able to be involved for that.

7 great kids. 

Perhaps we should stick to the subject.  And leave the the others to their means.

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That has always been the norm in society before.  You cannot run a large houselhold without relying on the older ones to take care of the younger ones.  Some people believe in the sanctity of life, and they take responsibility for their decisions.  That does not mean they let the older ones run wild, but they do give them all chores, and some of the chores are to watch the younger ones.

Just because Abortion is legal and acceptable does not mean that just anyone is going to run out and get one.  Many still oppose it on moral, ethical and religious grounds.  And as my mother use to tell us when we did complain - "Which one of you should I have aborted"?

I think it is very presumptious of anyone to decide how many children a couple has would be appropriate.  Said family never was on the public dole, never got any WIC or Welfare, altho they were qualified.  I think perhaps we have grown fat, dumb and lazy to now start dictating how many children , and how those children are taught responsiblity,  just because they dont have steak and filet mignon for dinner every night.
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No, I mean do not make generalilzations about all families where the mother works.  SOmetimes it is for convenience.  SOmetimes it is out of necessity.  Dont throw the ones doing it out of necessity in with the ones doing it for convenience.
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I beleive you made your point here.
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We dont count, even in court.  We are second class citizens.

Reply #13 Top
I think perhaps we have grown fat, dumb and lazy to now start dictating how many children , and how those children are taught responsiblity, just because they dont have steak and filet mignon for dinner every night.

Exactly.

And please show me where ANYONE told you that your mother should have aborted ANY of her children.
Reply #14 Top

Where did anyone call your mother a bad person?

And having so many kids the mother "has" to work to feed them, is irresponsible. Because she is not raising them, no matter how good the kids are.

You KNOW that this is a false assumption. My husband is an E5. Dharma's is an E6. We're not wealthy. There is no "plenty". We make sacrifices to be able to stay home with our little ones. I could write a long list of things I, and my family, forgoes in order to keep me home.

You misread.  Try again.

a. You cited her situation under the guise of being a "family member"...no one impugned your mother.
b. Your depiction of your mother's plight on Tova's thread left out many key details, including the fact that she was abandoned twice and was forced to care for her children all by herself.
c. No one's said that she doesn't meet their standards. The choice to have more children than one can provide for financially and emotionally is something I don't think is wise or beneficial. I have no problem with her character or mothering abilities. The only thing I have spoken against is the choice to have so many children when there would be no one home to care for them.

See above.  And get off the military kick.  That was what my step was. It is not an indictment on any military.

NO ONE said ANYONE should be aborted. This is beneath you, Dr.Guy. You're the only one who has suggested that you or your siblings should have been aborted.

I am referring to couples who have more kids than they can afford

Yea?  You call it then.  Sorry, I dont do to well with euphamisms,

There ya go, there's the main misleading elements of your article. Care to explain why you would paint stay-at-home moms with the "fat, lazy, and dumb" brush?

Exactly. Hook. line and sinker.  Sorry if I got upset and decided not to start a flame war on her Blog.  I do respect her, I just dont agree here.  So I wrote my own.

Thank you for helping me to prove my points.

Reply #15 Top

I think perhaps we have grown fat, dumb and lazy to now start dictating how many children , and how those children are taught responsiblity, just because they dont have steak and filet mignon for dinner every night.

Exactly.

And please show me where ANYONE told you that your mother should have aborted ANY of her children.

Guess I just read into "too many kids".  Guess you read into " a dumb NCO". So how do you reduce the number of kids?  As far as a Dumb NCO, we can ignore them.

Reply #16 Top
And having so many kids the mother "has" to work to feed them, is irresponsible. Because she is not raising them, no matter how good the kids are.


This is not my quote. It's Tova's. I don't think this implies that your mother was a bad person, but even if it DID, show me where I said she was a bad person.

You misread. Try again.


Misread what? Please enlighten me.

And get off the military kick. That was what my step was. It is not an indictment on any military.


WTF? Military kick? I never implied anything about the character of your step or of the military.

I am referring to couples who have more kids than they can afford


Again, this is Tova's quote, not mine. Please try to use my own quotes to back up what you are claiming I've said.

You call it then. Sorry, I dont do to well with euphemisms,


I've been very clear on this. I think it is a poor choice to have a large number of children when you don't have the financial means to support them AND have a parent available for them.

This means use birth control, use restraint, use family planning. It does not have to be abortion, and I've NEVER suggested that your mother should have aborted one of her children.

People find themselves in difficult situations. Your mother did the best she could with hers. Had you stated up front the conditions that led to your mother working round the clock while trying to support 7 children, I would have been much more understanding.

Sorry if I got upset and decided not to start a flame war on her Blog.


You mean, you're sorry you got upset and threw out a hateful insult (that clearly would incite more hateful banter) on her blog and then continued it here?

Thank you for helping me to prove my points.


I don't do well with euphemisms, either. Please explain what you mean by this.

Guess I just read into "too many kids".


Again, I've been very clear on this. You've been the only one on that thread or this one to suggest abortion.

Guess you read into " a dumb NCO".


Nope. I didn't. Why would I think that?

So how do you reduce the number of kids?


I've said it over and over again. Birth control, natural family planning method, or restraint. It works.

As far as a Dumb NCO, we can ignore them.


I never said "dumb NCO" and I'm not sure what this comment is supposed to mean.
Reply #17 Top
Doc I posted this on my thread but will again on yours.

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings or made you think I was talking down about your mom.

I was painting with a wide brush and I do tend to do that when I am angry.

I do agree with Tex in that I think people should plan to stay home and raise their own kids when they have them. Do plans get changed? Things happen? YES, of course.

I was venting about my personal experiences, which are really the only things I can speak about with any authority. And just so we are clear, I don't believe in abortion for any reason, not even incest or rape. But that's MY opinion and of course I've never been pregnant by incest or rape so there ya go!

Please don't fight with Tex over this. I wrote my blog while angry and frankly I am still pretty mad about the whole deal. But that is on me.
Reply #18 Top
*ahem* Raises hand! May I?

I'm not a parent. That's my disclaimer.

I think sometimes that parents do get mired down in the "stuff=love" type of mentality. And I think kids tend to think that way, too, because that's what mom and dad think.

I hope if I'm ever blessed with kids that that's not the way they think. I hope they realize that mom and dad's time and attention and affection is worth much more than the megasauras Lego set they've been wanting.

I grew up with both parents working. I was shuttled off to grandma's after school and before school some days, too, so mom and dad could work. They both needed to, though. My dad was a school custodian and when I was younger my mom cleaned houses, and she even worked at stint at KFC before she got her job working at the jail almost 15 years ago.

My sister has to get herself up and get herself to school every morning. Granted, she's a senior in high school, but she's been doing this for several years...either coming home to an empty house 12 miles from civilization, or getting herself ready in the morning. My mom's a widow, though. My sister doesn't have any choice.

I fully understand that people have to work. And I *KNOW* it's hard to be a single parent. It's about making priorities though, and arrangements for your children to be safe and cared for if you aren't able to be there. And it's also about using the time you do have to show your kids what's important.

Meh...that's just me.
Reply #19 Top
Beautiful tribute to your mom, God bless her.

She sure raised wonderful kids!
and doing it after a spouse has flown the coop is so difficult
and heartbreaking at the same time.

Thanks for sharing of your life Dr.G.
Reply #20 Top

This is not my quote. It's Tova's. I don't think this implies that your mother was a bad person, but even if it DID, show me where I said she was a bad person.

I am not accusing you of anything, nor am I only quoting you.  INdeed, I did quote Tova7.  But for some reason, everything I write, you take personally.  If I said "I think abortion is immoral", you would take that as an attack on you.

People find themselves in difficult situations. Your mother did the best she could with hers. Had you stated up front the conditions that led to your mother working round the clock while trying to support 7 children, I would have been much more understanding.

That is the reason for this article.  I did not feel it was appropriate for Tova's.

And please, stop reading everything I write as relating to you.  There are many others both on Tovas and here that are commenting.

You mean, you're sorry you got upset and threw out a hateful insult (that clearly would incite more hateful banter) on her blog and then continued it here?

I asked you before to show me my hateful comment, there or here.  You have not. However, you have inferred things not stated.  And from those inferations, you have decided that it was a hateful insult.  I cannot change your mind in that.

I've said it over and over again. Birth control, natural family planning method, or restraint. It works.

Birth control, except abortion, does not work once the woman has conceived.  My mother did not plan on getting a divorce after 4, nor on having 7 children.  Did you not read what I wrote?  The last 2 were an accident, but she was not going to abort them after getting pregnant.  So again, how would birth control, family planning or anything else work when no method of birth control is 100%.  That means even with all that, people still get pregnant.

Reply #21 Top

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings or made you think I was talking down about your mom.

I was painting with a wide brush and I do tend to do that when I am angry.

Tova7, thank you.  I did not want to inflame your blog (which I do agree with for the most part, just not all the comments).  And in the heat of battle, we can say things that we do not mean, or word it improperly so that it is misunderstood.  After the embers die down, we would like to retract some things, or in my case at the very least clarify what I meant.

I respect you greatly as I know you were born of a very hot fire.  I have read that much.  I am also glad that when we stepped back, we could see what each has said, and understand perhaps we were talking at cross purposes, not debating direct points.

Thank you again.

Reply #22 Top

I fully understand that people have to work. And I *KNOW* it's hard to be a single parent. It's about making priorities though, and arrangements for your children to be safe and cared for if you aren't able to be there. And it's also about using the time you do have to show your kids what's important.

I fully understand the mothers that Tova7 is talking about, and I have no use for them either.  But I also know there are many mothers out there that have to work, through misfortune, or bad judgements, and they should not be lumped with the former group.

I think, as Tova7 said, she was angry when she wrote her article.  And while the article was very clear, the comments were not.  I think we both agree now, and understand it was just anger that got the sparks flying.  We were arguing at cross purposes, not on point.

Reply #23 Top

Thanks for sharing of your life Dr.G.

Thank you Trudy.  My Mother and I still fight like Cats and dogs, but I do admire and respect what she sacraficed for myself and my siblings.

Reply #24 Top
I don't think Dr. Guy is misrepresenting it all that much. There's a lot of "working women" bashing that is going on over there. It's pretty disgusting, to be honest.

That said, Dr. Guy, I believe that your mother would have fit into Tova's disclaimer--women who needed to work.

My mother on the otherhand, would not. Probably why I find Tova's thread to be so---well--horrible.


Gee, I had no idea... I've got to go see. I've been MIA so haven't gotten around to every blog yet!


Your mom was a great mom Doc and one I admire too. My mom was a working mom and I loved her for being able to do that and take care of us at the same time. Go working moms! (me included!)
Reply #25 Top
My problem is not so much "working moms" (I was a working mom myself for several years) as it is the whole "chasing your tail to buy crap and spending no time with your kids" deal (...)And just as an FYI, what I found horrible and disgusting was Dr.Guy's characterization of the stay-at-home moms on Tova's thread as "fat, lazy, and dumb".


TW--Sorry I ran off last night before you posted your response. I didn't want you to think that I didn't see it. I can imagine why the "fat, lazy, and dumb" line was hurtful to you, and I understand why you reacted the way you did. I do not disagree with you regarding parents who are working for the almighty dollar, but I believe there are a lot of other benefits to women to have a career outside the home (if that is what they want to do)--and I don't think it makes them bad parents even if they can afford to get by without it.