Muggaz Muggaz

Preaching makes me hate Religion more

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Preaching makes me hate Religion more

I am glad i am in a passive Religious environment

from JoeUser Forums
The Weekend has just gone and as always, it involved beer and conversation with friends.

It seems that no one can get enough of Religion with this fricken movie stirring everyones belief. I just read the 23rd thousandth article by my good friend Trin who admits that she would be lost without Gods direction.

I have to say - that is my major problem with Religion. No one trust's their own judgement anymore, and everything they do needs to be validated by God. Only he knows what is right or wrong.

I engaged in this conversation with my mates Room-mate... someone who has been to church 3 times in her whole life... she was telling me what she uses as a yard stick when acting on ay issue that has moral and ethical under-tones... she trusts her own judgement, i trust her judgement - how are some people able to survive and lead fulfilling lives without asking God the way? its actually very, very easy.

If one cant trust their own judgements when it comes to basic moral and ethical questions, i find it daunting that they wouldn't be able to trust their judgement when it comes to anything else. I am 22 today - i would like to think that 22 is enough time to hone my skills as to what is the best course of action - it would be arrogant of me to say i have learnt it all, by all means, i acknbowledge i am but a puppy in the scope of things. When i do have to make dicisions though, you will never ever find me asking for validation from a supreme being. To be a leader, you have to have utmost confidence in your integrity and ability to make good decisions - i guess thats why i am yet to come across a good leader of men that was overly religious.

Please... continue to live your life how you see fit. but the next person who preaces God on me, will feel the wraith of my dissapointment. I am going to see Mel Gibsons movie on Thursday night - i do have to say i am a little daunted by the prospect. I will approach it with a reverant attitude, simply because so many people see Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Its safe to say that i may be a little touched by the movie and its depicition of Jesus' last hours.

Essentially though, this movie will be no different to Cry Freedom or Schindlers list... someone being persecuted because they are different. Jesus is no savior to me, just some glorified dude who lived thousands of years ago, and this movie is just another fictional story made to make money and entertain the masses.

Peace Out.
blogging
9,659 views 50 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
Muggaz, I find it really sad that you think life is about mastering the head game. That depresses me to no end. Forget about eternity, forget about religion. What do you want out of life on earth? If it's just to master the game of life, you're lost.

Trinitie
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
Religion has been forced upon us by our fore fathers, and unless you have the courage to question it,

i did question it... i just came up with a different answer than you did.

and yes, i'm worried about your salvation.

but anyhoo... i don't wish to put a damper on your birthday of all days.

mayhap one day one of us will change our mind, although i'm sure neither one of us can see that happening any time soon. if it does, we can sit on the porch and either sip ice tea or smoke a joint (depending on who changes their mind)... then we'll rehash this discussion and talk about life, love and the pursuit of happiness.

until that day...

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
I will smoke a joint with an Ice Tea. Excellent combination.

Trin,

Call me Jaded, but life is about mastering the head game. I am simply not putting myself in a position to be dissapointed aymore than i have to. Just because i concentrate on getting my head right, it doesn't mean there is no room in my heart.

Everything is in your head... i used to hate tomatoes, but then i realised that it was in my head, i now enjoy them... I used to hate brussel sprouts, and i still hate them, but i eat them, cause i know my mental powers can overcome anything else that my body may process...

I am a very loving person, and my family and friends always come first... I live my life so that i am happy in my surroundings of loved ones and my day to day environment.

You shouldn't be sad, I would safely assume that i am one of the biggest optimists on this site... rest assured my dear Trin, I am not lost at all, and i know exactly what i want out of my life, and for the most part, where i am going to get it.

BAM!!!
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top


Trinitie
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
this post actually made me adore you muggaz! i was starting to feel like i was the only one on here who wasnt a die-hard Christian. i believe Jesus was a real person yes, and he went through great and terrible things-but in what i believe there is no graveling, no asking for forgiveness.....id be intriged to hear what is your actual view on religion in general....your beliefs and whatnot....
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wait a sec...I'm your GOOD FRIEND?? I simply had no idea. I just thought I got on your nerves. I'm being serious here. THis surprised me.

Trinitie
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, I throw in a few cents. I'm a Catholic, I have faith, I do believe in Jesus, but...I'll agree with Muggzy somewhat. God gave us minds to make our own decisions in life and lead it the way we want it to. I do not blindly follow my faith, I question things, a lot of things in the scriptures don't make sense to me, I doubt God would be angry with me because I use that mind of mine. I'm not a sheep to blindly follow what's been told. I find my own way, using religion as a guide, but ultimately, the choices I make in life are mine, made using my own judgement and my own values, not the values that the society tries to imprint on me.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
and seeing as though i just read everyone elses posts...i must put my 2 cents in.....as much as i love you all and i respect all religions...i am but human and must vent here for a moment. and i like ya kiddo-but mikey you are the perfect example of what im bitching about.... i am a pagan. yep. sure am. (and before u go salem-witch-trial on me-educate yourself. just cuz i am pagan by no means makes me wiccan or a witch.) what bothers me about some christians is that they judge me b/c i dont believe in the same thing they do. now-did i ever once say you were wrong? no. its a belief. so why should you tell me mine is wrong?? hmmmm? and isnt it, according to the christian doctrine, only up to God to judge? so you are right there assuming the power of God by judging someone who doesnt believe as you do as "wrong" or a "sinner". and if i may-id like to take a few excerpts from an interesting article i read...."How to Teach the Gospels to a Pagan" by Gwydion. its main purpose is that if you are going to preach to us, at least understand where we are coming from, otherwise we wont even listen:

**"...Never attack........To begin with i have never seen anyone converted back to Christianity by threats....I say back for a reason, unlike the majority of Christianswho are raised in their faith and accept it as a matter of course, Pagans have made a conscious decision to become what they are-usually after a long period of study...."
**"Another important point to remember is that to most pagans the need to attack is viewed as a sign of fear and lack of self confidence. It is generally felt that if a person has strong grounding and foundation in their own religion, then they will not feel a need to attack others. While a fiery assault on a pagan may make a christian feel better about their faith and a "defender of the truth", the pagan sees it as a kind of spiritual immaturity."
**"...if you are going to have any chance in sharing your message it is critical that you understand clearly what pagans ACTUALLY believe. you dont have to agree with these beliefs, but its important for you to see a pagan as they see themselves.....the christian devil has no more meaning to a pagan than the christian god-thus they are not satan worshippers....pagans do not renounce christ...pagans do NOT sacrifice children or animals...did they in the past? possibly. sacrifices were part of nearly all religions the biblical hebrews being no exception."
**** ****"first pagans do not proselytize. they have no missionary program. in fact, it is not easy to become a pagan-pagans generally dont teach their religion unless asked to do so by someone who has sought them out....religion is viewed to be a very personal and sacred manner, SOMETHING NEVER TO BE IMPOSED ON ANOTHER AGAINST THEIR WISHES......second pagans DO NOT believe that their way is the only way....they tend to see religion as a road leading to the summit of a mountain. people tend to start at different points at the base and work their way up (paganism and christianity being only two of many possible paths) and the closer to the summit one gets the closer the roads come to each other until they all meet at the top. now if you are about to preach the gospel to a pagan then you obviously dont agree with this view but you need to UNDERSTAND it, as promoters of a "one true way" are often seen through pagan eyes as "taking the road to be the destination".....********************
**"realize you cant win 'em all....if a pagan finally tells you that they have found their path and they wish you well on yours-that simply means you need to let go.....you dont have to accept their beliefs or agree withthembut since you never know what the future will hold suspend judgement. THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE....everyone has a basic right to believe according to THEIR CONSCIENCE."

if i have offended anyone you truly have my sincerest apologies. its hard for a pagan to get preachy, but i just wanted to help everyone understand.
Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top
LOL brokendown princess.... I think we understand each other perfectly ;)

Trin,

I am a friend to all!!! I haven't the faintest idea why you would think i perceived you as annoying? unless you were deliberately setting out to annoy me, in which you failed miserably. Allthough i know you wouldn't do that, cause everyone loves the Mug Man ;)

BAM!!!
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top
Muggaz~

I feel a little ambivalent here, because I don't belong wholeheartedly to either "side." I think that when things make sense to an intelligent mind, they "click," if you know what I mean. Everything falls into place, and it feels right... and what you're saying feels right. Getting ahead of the game is important- because what is life but a competition? Christian's just have a different game plan.

It used to be that I struggled with my faith, because I couldn't reconcile it with my intellect, and I knew one or the other had to go if I couldn't figure it out. Thankfully, I figured it out and the two are now intrinsically linked. But here's the thing: suppose with me, for a moment, that there is an afterlife. While you may enjoy your life "to the fullest," you'll find yourself in a rather uncomfortably position when you die. Why does that have any relevance to this conversation? The answer is so important that I'll start a new paragraph for it.

By leaving you to believe what you wish and having "tolerance" for those outside our faith, Christians must essentially condemn you to Hell. It's like a drunk driver heading for a cliff; we believe that if we don't change something, and fast, you will be lost. So if we care, we have to present our faith as openly as possible. I hope you understand... I don't want to pressure you into anything, but I do care about you, and I can't even conceive of wanting you to witness the horror that is Hell.

...hope some of that made sense.

~Dan
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't want to pressure you into anything, but I do care about you, and I can't even conceive of wanting you to witness the horror that is Hell.


If you don't believe in Hell, then it doesn't frighten you.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
EXACTLY bulboushead!!!!... as i said, if a pagan does not believe in god or heaven then neither do they believe in hell or satan. it is kind (sincerly) that you all want to rescue us....but to us we are doing right. and other than you believing it-you have no proof of what comes next...none of us do. we all have beliefs, assumptions, theories...but nothing concrete. i personally....believe we are reincaranted until we have attained all knowledge possible and all levels of karma (good or bad energies sent out in different lifetimes) are balanced out (you send out bad, you get bad, send out good energies, get good. get it?) and then our souls walk the world between worlds (sort of a pagan heaven if you will). there is no "hell". life is the hell...if you are evil and negative,instead of going to hell you will keep coming back until you have done enough good to cancel out the evil you did in that previous life....thats your karma or pergatory or judgment. (like i said i dont fit into a category...im mostly pagan with a few christian values and buddhist type ideals thrown in) and the reason i dont believe in asking for forgiveness is that i do not believe that it is the Goddess (or w/e diety you like) that makes those decisions...our actions decide our fate...it is merely the Goddess who "doles out the punishment", if you will. there is a pagan saying...goes something like this....."...fate spins as it will but not even the Goddess can turn back the wheel." something like that. it sums it up. so if we "sin" (although i dont believe in "sins" in the christian sense) we dont pray for forgiveness we DO something about it. try to fix it.....send out some good vibes.... you feel me muggaz? ;)
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
..."and unless you have the courage to question it, there is always going to be that element in the back of your head that will never ever let you take full control of any situation "
long live independent thinkers.....or something like that....
Muggaz.....i think we need to run away together.....lol....
Reply #39 from JoeUser Forums Top
"No one trust's their own judgment anymore"

, yeah, all this new religion stuff is really getting out of hand...hmm??? You realize this is probably the least-religious era in human history, right?

Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top
If I may be so bold as to quote myself back from reply #8:

>>But any time anyone even mentions the word religion, everyone's radar goes way up and they go on the defensive.
>>I'm not saying that nobody should be able to talk about religion if they want to, I just think it should be considered a Pandora's box that people need to use more caution before unleashing, and I'm talking in general, not just here.

Kind of my way of saying I told you so, without actually saying I told you so, now that we are on reply #40.
Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
Christians... comdemn me all you want.

While you condem me, i will laugh at you!!!! hehe... I'll get brokendownprincess to turn you into a frog or something

yeah, all this new religion stuff is really getting out of hand...hmm??? You realize this is probably the least-religious era in human history, right?


Thats exactly what i am saying... It would have driven me insane i imagine years ago, but people i think are actually waking up.

I can only speak for myself though....
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top
>

Ah to be in my 20's again and know everything and be cool
Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's a good feeling to be completely free isn't it ?

What does it mean to be free - it's different for each person.
Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top
yeah i got your back muggaz....together we shall rule the world one day...or at least your parents basement....lol.
Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
Damn Muggaz ...this was good, I'm glad you gave me the link.

Now I'm off to research Taoism.

Oops I said damn


Jess
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top
Schindlers list


I also liked that movie.

I'm not going to argue about your views on religion, its up to everyone to believe in what they want.

10-4
Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top

Now I'm off to research Taoism.


Let me know if you need any links/books.  I have a few decent ones laying around.

Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top
ow I'm off to research Taoism.


Awesome.

Let me tell you - when I first started reading about it, I got one of those 'I understand' feelings... I found it ever so enlightening!!!

I have been told that I am a modern day Sage! what a compliment!!!

BAM!!!
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Mack/N.G.E. - I'll agree with Muggzy somewhat. I'm not a sheep to blindly follow what's been told. I find my own way, using religion as a guide, but ultimately, the choices I make in life are mine, made using my own judgement and my own values, not the values that the society tries to imprint on me.


yeah ! .... what he said.

(thanks macky hehe).

muggaz, preaching is such an issue that i am now noticing bumper stickers that say: "god, please save me from your followers".

i agree that over zealous preaching about anything is a sure fire way to turn most imaginative people off. i do somewhat agree with your article, yet, as per my echo of macky's comment, i do have some differing beliefs.

having said that, though. i think you got your point across very well. i'm just sad for the controversy it created, as i know you intended to harm nobody.

good article, muggie.

mig XX
Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top
when I first started reading about it, I got one of those 'I understand' feelings... I found it ever so enlightening!!!


oh. when was THAT ?

mig XX