A JU Crossroads

I've only been hear for a few months and I see it too. I took a break because I let the point system manipulate the way I wrote things. Heck, I had one article where I dropped the "f-bomb" in the title just to see if I got any responses(negative or not). I quickly learned from that and rather engage in a "shock jock" style, I now prefer to just interact with a comment every-know-and-then.

I've also seen at other blog sites where an idividual would change themselves and create a whole knew persona just because there was a certain "group" they wanted to belong in. Me personally, what you see(or read for that matter) is what you get. It's just seems a lot easier to give off an image of who we like to be instead of who we actually are. Which is why I joined, to find a place where I could just be myself and write, comment, debate or whatever. Or to learn more about certain topics that I didn't know that much about. This place has a lot of intellegent and articulate people whom write articles that just put me in aw.. and I hope it stays that way.

I suggest a time of continual community. Setting aside a month, a week, or a day to just celebrate the community of JU, or setting aside a day to write about how you joined JU and your experiences here, to help other people know you better.

That's seems like a good idea to me and something I would gladly participate in..

-mx-

~But whether you face it or not, the demographic is changing. It's a tide against the founders, and the events of Ashley Ryder and Manya and the like were just the beginning of what I feel is the eventual landslide and downfall of the JoeUser community~

I actually came onto JU during the Manya fiasco, and the importance of points and position was very obvious the first week I was browsing around... I like JoeUser for the most part; watching people respond to your blogs is a wonderful thing to me, but when it becomes solely about popularity and points and scandal one-upping, it loses it's charm very quickly.

~A lot of times, when people comment, it is only because someone commented on their work first. Stop that cycle, and be a person that actively engages in debate, opens meaningful discussions, and creates insightful responses. When the quality of the blogging goes up, then the quality of the community goes up.~

I agree. I think I need to do a better job at this myself. We should be more open to reading blogs from a variety of people, instead of, let's say, just your good 'ol buddy group of four or five.

~Write good blogs, and interact on a community level. Blogging is about the blogs, not the points.~

This would especially be helpful to new bloggers and to people who want their stuff read more often. If they start writing interesting, in-depth articles from the start, I am sure they will be more accepted and taken seriously as a fellow blogger.

For these ideas to work, it is going to take the participation of lots of fellow bloggers...I really do hope everyone is willing to give this a try.

Excellent article, Beebles...very well thought out.

Hmm, a return to the Golden Age. I like it...back in The Age it was all fun...it was interesting, and there were no crazy people screwing up everything. Little by little JU has deteriorated, painted black by a few and driven the good bloggers away.

I agree, Beebes...let's take back the ground we have lost and rebuild the shining utopia that once was....

Sieg Heil...okay, not going there...but it's funny

~Zoo

Excellent article. Points and position are fine for awhile, but I think that many people (actually, me) wish that others would get back to writing the good stuff they are known for than becoming involved in a lot of finger-pointing.
I vow to make a better effort on my own blog because of your motivating words!

I think your analysis is a bit harsh, Beebs, sorry. I'm not part of any "secret alliance", and I've maintained a high position here for some time. I comment on other people's work, I write original, occasionally insightful articles...the same as I've always done. I know of others who've done the same.

I haven't continued series such as the "blogger you should know" series, for one simple reason -- time. With less than 8 hours per week of online time available with my current schedule, I simply don't have it. I wish I could read every new blogger and comment like I used to, but the realities of working a 60-plus hour week coupled with using the library for internet access are such that I don't have time to look beyond the recent forum posts in categories that interest me.

There's no "old" or "new" JU...we're simply at another phase in the life cycle of this particular internet community. Brad's blogged about it before, and I believe he has it reasonably pegged.

I can't copy/paste (stupid computer's messed up), but I wanted to comment on your comment about writing blogs and commenting, as well as inbloom's follow up.

I make no apologies for the fact that when I first came to JoeUser, I wanted to be among the top users. So, I clicked on their names and saw what they did to get where they were. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, they had FAR more comments on others' pages than they had articles. So I set a personal goal of a 4:1 comment to article ratio (as a minimum). So, if someone new is reading this, I have to say, the secrets in reading others and commenting on their work more than you write.

..

Believe it or not, it's always gone through periods like this.  If you lookat some of my early blogs, I talk about community life cycles quite a bit as JU has gone thorugh clique attacks and the like from the start.

I think your analysis is a bit harsh, Beebs, sorry. I'm not part of any "secret alliance", and I've maintained a high position here for some time. I comment on other people's work, I write original, occasionally insightful articles...the same as I've always done. I know of others who've done the same.

And no one is saying that you have been part of a secret alliance, or covert operation, but it is in my estimation that such groups exist purely to manipulate their points scores to reach to the top by any means necessary. I am about 90% confident that there is at least 1 such group at JU, and while I'm not naming names, I'm sticking with what I've said.

I make no apologies for the fact that when I first came to JoeUser, I wanted to be among the top users. So, I clicked on their names and saw what they did to get where they were. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, they had FAR more comments on others' pages than they had articles. So I set a personal goal of a 4:1 comment to article ratio (as a minimum). So, if someone new is reading this, I have to say, the secrets in reading others and commenting on their work more than you write.

And through that statement you provide reason for me and for others to believe that community building is a good thing for the individual. The question is: when does the points whoring begin, and when does the community building begin? Having goals set to be a blogger who is in the top 10 is not a bad thing in itself, but posting drivel to get yourself another 5 or 15 points is.

There's no "old" or "new" JU...we're simply at another phase in the life cycle of this particular internet community. Brad's blogged about it before, and I believe he has it reasonably pegged.

My question for you is this: Who says this phase is a desired or necessary one? Through all this, I know that there are constant ups and downs in the life of JU, but who says that a natural down is a place that is a good place to be? Although a brief change as we cycle through blogging phases is inevitable, I believe that if JoeUsers naturally act as a community, and act in a way that increases discussion, debate and a feeling of community, then a natural low can be shortened or made less severe in it's entirety.

In short, I don't think there are too many people who enjoy a bad time, and if we work together as a community, then we do our best to make sure that blogging in JU is a good experience for all.


PS:
Sorry about the double post for Gideon's replies, but editing the original post to add another quote seemed a bit much.

I'm a relative newbie to JU...I'm rapidly approaching my one year anniversary of blogging here, so I never experienced that atmosphere you described, but I do know that JU was more enjoyable for me several months ago.

I agree that the dynamics have changed. I have read Draginol's article about community cycles, and I'm sure that his description of these phases as being normal and temporary is correct.

It still makes it difficult for the time being.

I would like to see more quality stuff...things that are fairly original and well-thought out. There's still a lot of interesting reading here, but it often gets buried by the influx of email forwards and one liners. I used to be so excited about getting on JU and finding out what went on while I slept, but now there's no sense of urgency. It seems that there is far less volume as far as comments and articles being posted, and so much of it is only mildly interesting to me (which might just be a personal problem, hehe).

I do try to comment frequently and stay involved, but many times there are blogs that seem to either not require any type of response, or are already flooded with personal correspondence.

I don't blog as often, and I'm not really sure why. My blogs tend to be life journal type things, so perhaps I am not contributing to the JU community in the most beneficial way, but I get the most enjoyment out of writing those types of blogs.

I do appreciate your presence here, Beebles, and I always enjoy my interactions with you. This blog was some good food for thought.

(Apologies for rambling)

Just as we all have our own reasons to be here, we have our own reasons for picking and choosing what articles we will and won't comment on. We also have our own reasons for writing the articles we write. So, in the end, JU is what you make it. If you don't want it to be an endless mass of point whores, instigators or "secret alliances" then don't pay any attention to them. If points and position mean nothing to you, then why bother noticing who is on the "top 10" of anything... or who has more points than someone else? I'm not saying that if you ignore them, they'll go away. I am saying that if you don't pay any attention to them, then what they do doesn't affect you in the least.

So, in the same vein, if you ignore the war that goes on around you, you're less likely to get shot? Completely off topic, I know, but it brings up my point.

No matter what you do or do not do, you are always affected by your environment, be it a natural or blogsphere. The environment you live in, work in, and in this case, blog in, effects everything you do, even if only in the slightest manner. And, if I had the choice, I'd have my environment affect me in a positive way. I would rather be inspired by the writers around me then be dejected by drivel spewed out in the sole attempt at making a spot on the top 10 list.

I do try to comment frequently and stay involved, but many times there are blogs that seem to either not require any type of response, or are already flooded with personal correspondence. I don't blog as often, and I'm not really sure why. My blogs tend to be life journal type things, so perhaps I am not contributing to the JU community in the most beneficial way, but I get the most enjoyment out of writing those types of blogs. I do appreciate your presence here, Beebles, and I always enjoy my interactions with you. This blog was some good food for thought.

Thank you. You're right. Sometimes you have to do what you feel is best for you, what makes you happy. At the same time, there is no denying that you do some of your best work when attempting to reach out to the community, or write something specific in order to get discussion on an issue you feel is important. Be it life or some issue you wish to write about, you make your journey one that is enjoyable to read, and full of insight. You can't ask for anything more than that.

You don't need great writers full of noble thoughts to make a good blogsphere. You just need bloggers dedicated to their community in that blogsphere,.

You miss the dynamics completely Beebles.  I dont know if there is a cabal ,and I really dont care.  I comment on blogs I find interesting and they comment on SOME of mine.  YOu see, I have actually 2 blogs here.  One is Politics.  And it is very nasty and rough!  Many comment there.  Then there is the personal side where I laugh and cry and exchange things with others.  And others comment there.

And I do not force one side or the other.  I accept both sides.  But I have not noticed anyone (other than the announced points whore articles) trying to run up scores.  And truthfully, I dont care.  for the only one I am in competition with is myself.  ANd that is the hardes foe I have ever faced!

Period!

You miss the dynamics completely Beebles. I dont know if there is a cabal ,and I really dont care. I comment on blogs I find interesting and they comment on SOME of mine. YOu see, I have actually 2 blogs here. One is Politics. And it is very nasty and rough! Many comment there. Then there is the personal side where I laugh and cry and exchange things with others. And others comment there. And I do not force one side or the other. I accept both sides. But I have not noticed anyone (other than the announced points whore articles) trying to run up scores. And truthfully, I dont care. for the only one I am in competition with is myself. And that is the hardes foe I have ever faced!

I don't think I missed the dynamic at all. Rather, I respectfully suggest you re-read my article, and see what I'm truly focusing on. I'll clean up the posting mess, and I'll get back to this one.

Ok, now that that is taken care of... (somehow Dr. Guy's post actually posted 8 times)

@ Dr. Guy: The cabal itself isn't important in this situation. Rather, I believe there is one, and that's all there is to it. For all anyone knows, I could be the head archon of said cabal, and noone would know anything about it, or know any better. I am not, as you can definitely tell by my points score )

The idea behind there being a cabal at JU is what is most important in this scenario, especially because a cabal effectively undermines the whole idea of blogging. Why should you do it for points, other than to be on the top 10 list? These types of members can even seem pro-community, but in reality, they're more often than not just looking for a quick easy 5 points. AND, just be because you don't care, doesn't mean they don't exist. One person does not dictate the entire blogsphere. Thus, your actions, or my actions, or any one person's actions can not alone do anything to correct the problem, the problem being this seeming "lack of community" that I feel needs to be adressed.

Only as a collected community can we make JU's blogging experience a better one.

We AS A COMMUNITY need to discipline ourselves and simply refuse to give these liars, plagiarist, conspiracists, and general morons the attention they crave. I'm guilty of it myself, padding these people's points in my efforts to let them know exactly what I think of them. As if they care, right? I'll do it no more. The Reiki-Houses and Lucas Baileys of this community will earn no more points from me, if I feel I must address something they've said, I will do it on an article of my own.

It's a good start, I believe. Discouraging "site terrorists" as Satyrobe calls them by not giving them the satisfaction of making more lies to gain more points is a core issue here. By reading and commenting on things you feel are worth discussion, you prove to all other bloggers that you care about good blogging. If we as a community stand beside this ideal, then soon those who would normally spam and cheat will hopefully begin to see that good blogging can get them to the top of the list. This type of action acts here as a preventative measure, although it won't prevent all spammers, or prevent all plagarism and etc., it will provide an impetus for change in those that do those activities now.

I think that even describing the collection of JUsers as a "community" is stretching the definition a bit.

In most communities, people are members until they leave or die. If I leave with all intent of never coming back, and I tell no one of this intent, AND I don’t delete my blog, am I a community member still? There are many permutations of these types of questions you could ask that would shed light to reveal that the “JU Community” is a gem with many facets, and only one facet hangs out here everyday.

With respect to you Beebles, here is the outline of what I find fallacy in your post:

Now we, as Joeusers

Who = We? People that have a blog even though they might be dead now? People that blog once a year? A month? A week? A day? An hour? Pick a random time next week and ask yourself this question "Is OckhamsRazor a member of the JU community right now?" If you have an answer to that, what do you base it on?

If you look at all the JU blogs listed, you’ll find that prolific writers are in the vast minority of citizens in JUVille. The silent majority is very real here, and you can't very well discount them and still call it a community.

So is it the whole community that is at a crossroads, or just the tiniest piece of it?

Online communities go through these cycles. The good and the bad pass in time and things get back to "normal" eventually. I honestly think you're over-dramatizing this whole deal with talk of secret conspiracies and dark pacts and people hidden in the shadows. Yeah, there are some cliques, but those always exist.

We're at a low point on the cycle, it'll swing back up eventually. Those who are on the fence will leave, and we'll be back to a small active community again. When small things will get better and it'll attract more people again, as it gets larger tensions will grow and tempers will flare, then people will leave in disgust or whatever and the whole thing will start over again.

Don't worry so much over how and what others write. Be content writing well in your own space and reading the articles written by your favorite writers. If someone pisses you off, don't read them. Your experience at JU is only as positive or negative as you let it be.

Great article Beebes. And some very interesting and thoughtful points too. Everyone has pretty much said it here in there responses. I agree with Tex especially about that sense of urgency that used to be there and isn't anymore. Infact, I lost that sense of urgency some time ago because there seems to be so much in-fighting and name callings and so on. The points whoreing truthfully didn't and doesn't bother me. If that's all someone came to JU to do then that's there problem. But it does affect us all when there blog is a bunch of nonsense and they take and get credit for what they didn't do. Or they influence others into doing something or boycotting someone. It's unfair. It's also unfair when others put on another persona to meet or satisfy some foolish goal.

I like that idea of getting JU back to what it was, or even better, make it better than it was and ignore those who strive for the downfall of JU by causing chaos!

Blogging and sharing our stories are the reason most people are here. Reading and commenting on others articles is an important part of that sharing. No matter what everyone likes to have their blogs read by others and getting a comment is icing on the cake!

As I said, I lost some of the urgency but I've found it again because when it comes down to it, I like being here, there are still people here I enjoy having discussions with and I love to write, whether it's about me and my family or share a joke, or some other article I've read. That's what it's really all about in the end. Letting someone else dictate how and what I should write and feel about or not participate in is definately not going to happen again!

So most definately, I agree with what you say and look forward to JU continuing to be a community of growth and friendship!

I read this last night, and without looking at all the other comments, what is a community anyway?

For me, JU is a place where I downright detest some of the users here, as I am sure I am detested by some, do you call that a community?

Alas, it is a place I can come back to, because people here doknow me, simply because i have lowered my omnipresent walls in writing for myself, whuch happens to be read by faceless strangers - people here know more about me than a lot of people you would ever come across in the real world... as much as i like to think I don't give a rats ass what others think about me, it holds so much more truth here, because i am in no way attached to the outcome.

By default, I know more about you all as well, because i have read your articles, and it's time you get on the soapbox that is normally not afforded to us in our every day lives.

I guess that's what this community is about - but i suppose you are only part of it if you take the time to really listen to what people are telling you, or tell people something they want to hear.

well, it made sense to me. carry on.

well, it made sense to me. carry on.

I will.

like that idea of getting JU back to what it was, or even better, make it better than it was and ignore those who strive for the downfall of JU by causing chaos! Blogging and sharing our stories are the reason most people are here. Reading and commenting on others articles is an important part of that sharing. No matter what everyone likes to have their blogs read by others and getting a comment is icing on the cake!

Indeed! I think the goal here is just a better blogging experience here at JU, and I'm willing to do what it takes to make it that way.

Who = We? People that have a blog even though they might be dead now? People that blog once a year? A month? A week? A day? An hour? Pick a random time next week and ask yourself this question "Is OckhamsRazor a member of the JU community right now?" If you have an answer to that, what do you base it on? If you look at all the JU blogs listed, you’ll find that prolific writers are in the vast minority of citizens in JUVille. The silent majority is very real here, and you can't very well discount them and still call it a community. So is it the whole community that is at a crossroads, or just the tiniest piece of it?

Hmm... A good question posed, but one I think I have an answer for. I believe that any person who wants to be part of the community is a part of the community. I think in this case, how many blogs you have or how often you visit is irrelevant. What matters is that you wish for JU to be a place where you enjoy blogging. Everyone is at that crossroads, know it or not. By how you act and what you post, you decide what way you want JoeUser to go, and if that means spouting drivel to drive your points up, it's fairly obvious where you want it to go.

Let me take another tack at this. If I say "Hey! Wait a minute! I like all the drivel, and the back biting, and the mud slinging, and the plagiarism, and the whining right along with all the stuff you might label as good - insightful posts, well thought out arguments, spirited healthy debates, etc..." does my vote count? What if I think JU is going right where it is supposed to go?

Can I say "JU is just fine!" and have you agree?

The trouble with the argument is that it assumes too much about too many that aren't here, yet they are still a part of JU with all their faults and blemishes.

True Utopia in anything is a dream, because without the funk of the "other" side of humanity, there is nothing to define any utopian ideal. You can't say 1 is greater than anything if 1 is the only number that exists. We need our zeroes - they serve a very important purpose.

Having goals set to be a blogger who is in the top 10 is not a bad thing in itself, but posting drivel to get yourself another 5 or 15 points is.

Oh, believe me...if I was posting just for points, I could produce about 3 to 4 times the material I posted here in my peak. Of course, that would mean fewer original articles and more copy/paste work, but I could do it VERY easily.

I don't think the "down" part of the cycle is a "good" thing, but I don't think it's a "bad" thing either. It just IS. Like real life relationships, which also endure highs and lows, the nature of an internet community simply is what it is.